Volume 25 Number 66
Produced: Wed Jan 1 23:21:52 1997
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Administrivia - "Archive" edition
[Avi Feldblum]
Converts
[Yrachmiel Tilles]
Corporal punishment in Jewish law
[Yaacov-Dovid Shulman]
Cost of Weddings
[Carl and Adina Sherer]
Mezuzah scrolls
[William Page]
Microphones in Shul
[Andy Goldfinger]
more on answering "amen" to a live radio/tv broadcast
[David Mescheloff]
Shoes required for davening (2)
[Eli Turkel, Eli Turkel]
Zip Codes
[Steven Oppenheimer]
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From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:59:07 -0500
Subject: Administrivia - "Archive" edition
This edition contains older postings that have been sitting in my mbox
and I am now getting to read and submit to the list.
Avi
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From: <ascent@...> (Yrachmiel Tilles)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:29:37 +0300
Subject: Converts
> I recall many years ago visiting in Tzfat before I ever even
> dreamed of moving here, and spending a Shabbat meal with a family in
> Kiryat Chabad. In response to hearing for the first time this notion of
> non-Jews lacking a "nefesh elokit", I asked my host how it was possible
> that one might convert to Judaism. His response was that the successful
> approach of a "non-Jew" to Judaism indicates retroactively that this
> person really possessed all along one of the scattered, shattered sparks
> of the soul of Adam Harishon, reconfigured only partially in post-Egel
> Yisrael. To me then, as now, this smacked, l'havdil, of a Calvinistic
> determinism unbefitting the tradition which understood free human choice
> as the pinnicle of "tzelem elokim".
If my friend Yehoshua Kahan had asked his host what is the basis of this
position, I'm quite sure he would have told him: not Calvin, but the
gemorra discussing the laws of conversion that says: "When a convert
converts [ger sh'mitgayer]" and not "a non-jew that converts [goy
sh'mitgayer]". Perhaps even the authors of the Kuzari and the Zohar
would give the same answer. It does not mean that every non-Jew with
such a soul spark finds his way to convert, so free choice is preserved.
I fail to understand how saying certain people will never convert
removes them from the realm of having free choice any more than saying
they will never play for the Mets.
Yrachmiel Tilles - ASCENT Seminars
PO Box 296 | e-mail: <ascent@...> (YT)
13102 Tsfat | tel: 06-921364, 971407 (home: 972056)
ISRAEL | fax: 972-6-921942 (attn. Y.Tilles)
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From: <YacovDovid@...> (Yaacov-Dovid Shulman)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:07:41 -0400
Subject: Corporal punishment in Jewish law
In Jewish criminal law, corporal punishment plays a central role.
Criminals may be severely flogged. And there are four types of death
penalty. (In actuality, due to extraordinarily strict rules of
evidence, such sentences were extremely rare. For instance, the
perpetrator had to be warned in advance by two witnesses that the crime
was a capital offense, and he had to acknowledge that before committing
the crime.) The four penalties, administered to a drugged prisoner,
are: beheading (with a sword); strangulation (with a leather belt);
death by fire (consisting of molten lead poured down the criminal's
throat); and stoning (consisting of a person being thrown off a tall
platform and a large boulder cast down on him--and, should that not
prove fatal, more stones).
Over the centuries, even though no longer qualified to impose these
sentences, Jewish courts have administered a variety of corporal
punishments, under much less stringent rules of evidence. Generally
speaking, only an unusually eminent court has the right to administer
such a sentence. Examples are cited in a recent volume of responsa,
Tzitz Eliezer (volume 19, teshuvah 51). The following is a sampling:
"Once," the Talmud relates, "a man was riding a horse on the
Sabbath in the days of Greek rule, and he was sentenced to be
stoned--not because he deserved that punishment, but because it was
necessary for the time [a time that Jews had little respect for the
mitzvot]" (Sanhedrin 46a).
When Imrata bat Teli, a bat Cohen, committed adultery, Rav Chama
bar Tuvia had her wrapped in bundles of branches and burned alive
(Sanhedrin 52b). When a man named Bar Chama was suspected of murder,
the Reish Galuta told Rav Aba bar Yaakov: "Go and investigate. If he is
truly guilty, gouge out his eyes" (Sanhedrin 27a). And when a man
attacked someone else, Rav Huna had his hand chopped off (Sanhedrin
58b).
Such rulings continued into post-Talmudic times. The Rosh was
asked whether a heretic who agitated publicly and profaned G-d's name
should be sentenced to death. The Rosh replied, "My opinion would be to
pull his tongue out of his mouth and cut most of it off, so that he
would become mute. In this way, he would be punished fittingly, and
this is a well-known revenge that is seen every day."
The Rosh was also approached regarding a widow who had been
impregnated by a gentile, causing a great scandal and anti- Semitism.
The Rosh ruled, "Let her nose be cut off to destroy her beauty so that
she will not become progressively immoral." This judgement is brought
as the law by the Rema (Even Hazer 177:5).
And the Levush rules, "Nowadays, one doesn't kill a person
deserving the death penalty, but we gouge out his eyes, cut off a limb,
and the like."
The Maharam of Lublin, on the other hand, opposed such
mutilation--not intrinsically, but because it might cause the person
thus sentenced to become an anti-Semite. He tells of a man whom Rabbi
Shachna sentenced to have his eyes gouged out and his tongue cut off.
Afterwards, this man converted, married a gentile woman, had gentile
children, and he and his children persecuted the Jews.
Panim Meirot tells that one may extract a confession through
physical coercion: "The judge is obligated to beat [the defendant] and
punish him as he sees fit in order that he will confess the truth," and
he brings proofs from the Talmud and poskim (not cited in Tzitz
Eliezer). He tells of two Torah scholars who attempted to extract such
a confession. "I heard from my uncle of an incident in the time of Rabbi
Heschel and the Shach. [The Shach] deposited a golden chain with the
[R. Heschel], which was stolen by R. Heschel's servant. They placed
his finger in the middle of the seruf [barrel? pan?] of a musket. The
thief didn't confess. But three years later, they found the chain in
his chest."
The Tzitz Eliezer quotes many sources proving that judges enjoy a
broad latitude to employ various means of punishment that will
adequately preserve law and societal standards. These rulings display
no sign of apologetics. Indeed, nowhere in the extended responsum of
the Tzitz Eliezer itself, extending across eleven large-format pages and
ranging over a wide variety of issues, is there any question regarding
the nature of these punishments.
How does this jibe with the Talmud's description of Jews as
especially compassionate? How does it meet the criterion of the verse,
"[the Torah's] ways are the ways of pleasantness"? Is one induced to
justify such punishments, which would today be condemned as "cruel and
unusual," and decry Western standards? And what if Torah law gains the
ascendancy in the land of Israel? Would such punishments be likely to
recur?
Responses to these issues are warmly invited.
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From: Carl and Adina Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 23:38:13 +0000
Subject: Cost of Weddings
As you all can tell by now, I'm a bit behind on my mail....
Regarding the discussion on the cost of weddings, one minhag I did
not see mentioned is the the practice of Yerushalmi families to send
out invitations with two times on them. One is an early time for the
Chupa, say 6:00, and the other a later time for a Kabbolas Panim, say
9:00. Those who attend the chupa stay for dinner, those who do not
come later to be mesameyach the chassan and kallah (to make the
newleyweds happy), i.e. to dance. At the Kabbolas Panim, only cake,
drinks and Yerushalmi kugel are generally served. This tends to
drastically reduce the cost of the wedding.
-- Carl Sherer
Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.
Carl and Adina Sherer
<sherer@...>
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From: William Page <Page@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:01:14 -0500
Subject: Mezuzah scrolls
A friend who works in a Judaica shop recently ordered some
"kosher mezuzah scrolls" from a large Judaica supply house.
The scrolls they sent were each encased in clear plastic and
looked quite "official," but were obviously printed and not
hand-lettered. Is is possible for a printed scroll to be kosher?
Bill Page
[No, it is not. These mezuzot are not kosher. Mod.]
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From: Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...>
Date: 18 Sep 1996 10:21:24 -0400
Subject: Microphones in Shul
No, not on Shabbos! This question concerns weekdays.
The shul I dovened in this morning had a microphone for the baal
tefiloh. Thus, the congregants were hearing mostly an amplified sound
produced by loud speakers, rather than the actual voice of the chazzan.
Now, we don't say amen to a bracha we hear over the radio, nor can we be
yotzei kedusah from a recorded voice. So -- why can we answer amen and
respond to the chazzan who is heard only over a PA system?
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From: David Mescheloff <meschd@...>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 10:55:09 +0200 (WET)
Subject: more on answering "amen" to a live radio/tv broadcast
In recent issues of mail-Jewish, references have been made to different
answers of poskim on the above question (Rabbi Elyahu Shlit"a: don't
answer; Rabbi Kook ZT"L and Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef Shlit"a: you may answer).
I just came across a discussion of the question by R. S.Z. Auerbach ZT"L,
in the latest issue of Techumin (vol. 16, pp. 19-23). The bottom line:
don't answer, neither for a bracha you are obliged to say/hear nor for
one you just ahppen to hear, for you aren't hearing a human voice, but
only an electronic reproduction. In the presence of the speaker who is
using an amplifier, you may answer because it is sufficient to know when
he has said a brocho, but otherwise the sound of his voice must be
considered to have stopped, and you're hearing only the sound of a
vibrating membrane, not a person - so don't answer.
Two against two! There is no alternative: CYLOR!
By the way, it is interesting to note, that on this technological/halachic
question, the answers cut straight across Sefardi/Ashkenazi lines. I note
this for the benefit of those who mistakenly think that on all issues
Sefardim pasken one way and Ashkenazim another. The division across
"ethnic" lines is *not* as it is sometimes presented simplistically.
David Mescheloff
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From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:15:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Shoes required for davening
Mordy Gross writes
>Is there any reason to be strict about wearing shoes when davening in
>general?
>> The main reason is probably for common decency. Most people would not
>> attend a formal or even informal event barefoot. Therefor prayer should
>> be no worse.
This is one of favorite examples of cultural influences of society.
In western socities Mordy Gross is completely correct. In fact for this
reason many poskim state that a Cohen should wear socks when reciting
the priestly blessing and not be barefoot.
However, in arab countries it is a sign of respect to remove shoes
and one must be barefoot in a mosque. Thus many sephardi cohanim do in
fact recite birkhat cohanim while barefoot.
Interestingly I just returned from a vacation in the Canadian
Rockies and in all the houses we visited we were requested to remove our
shoes (not socks) before entering the house.
Shana Tova,
Eli Turkel
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From: <turkel@...> (Eli Turkel)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:15:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Shoes required for davening
Mordy Gross writes
>Is there any reason to be strict about wearing shoes when davening in
>general?
>> The main reason is probably for common decency. Most people would not
>> attend a formal or even informal event barefoot. Therefor prayer should
>> be no worse.
This is one of favorite examples of cultural influences of society.
In western socities Mordy Gross is completely correct. In fact for this
reason many poskim state that a Cohen should wear socks when reciting
the priestly blessing and not be barefoot.
However, in arab countries it is a sign of respect to remove shoes
and one must be barefoot in a mosque. Thus many sephardi cohanim do in
fact recite birkhat cohanim while barefoot.
Interestingly I just returned from a vacation in the Canadian
Rockies and in all the houses we visited we were requested to remove our
shoes (not socks) before entering the house.
Shana Tova,
Eli Turkel
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From: Steven Oppenheimer <oppy>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 20:43:27 +0000
Subject: Zip Codes
Does anyone know if there is a program or book that will allow you to find
the latitude and longitude of a city if you know the zip code? This would
be very useful in conjunction with the calendar programs that give
information on sunrise and sunset times, etc. When travelling to a
destination, if one knew the zip code then if one could obtain the latitude
and longitude, the calendar programs would give one the appropriate halachic
times.
If anyone knows of a program that converts zip codes to latitude and
longitude, please let me know. Thank you.
Steven Oppenheimer
<Oppy@...>
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End of Volume 25 Issue 66
