Volume 25 Number 70
                      Produced: Sat Jan  4 20:54:51 1997

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bone Marrow Transplants
         [Esther Posen]
         [Russell Hendel]
Cohanim on planes
         [Eliyahu Segal]
Gold at a Pidyon Haben
         [Tszvi Klugerman]
Jewish and Non-Jewish Souls
         [Catherine S. Perel]
Jewish Holidays
         [Todd Zabel]
New Farberware. Reverware, and Ekco pots and pans- need kashering?
         [Zemira and Tzvi Woolf]
Terach minyan
         [Yrachmiel Tilles]
Tuition as charity
         [Chaim Twerski]
Yeshiva Tuition and Tzedakah
         [Garry Seidenfeld]
Yeshiva Tuition as Tzedaka
         [Lewis Reich]
Yeshiva Tuitions as Tzedaka
         [Aaron D. Gross]


From: <eposen@...> (Esther Posen)
Subject: Re: Bone Marrow Transplants

I believe I need to clarify my previous post.  In most cases, when one
is a bone marrow donor, one does not know who the recipient is nor does
the recipient have any idea who is refusing to come down for further
testing.  In fact, as we learned, many people who have had the bone
marrow test just cannot be reached for whatever reason, they moved,
changed their name, are on extended vacations, sabbaticals etc.  Others
(especially possible in the frum community) cannot come down for further
testing because they are pregnant etc..  This is different than doctors
and chilul shabbos for saving the life of a non-jew. (I would guess,
though I make no claim to being an expert in halacha.)

I should also add that the "frum" are the first to roll up their sleeves
anywhere to save another jew.  As much as some chilul hashem may exist,
there is also a great kiddush hashem when thousands of people show up
for testing.

I also must admit that I put "my own words" "c'est la vi" into the
mouths of the rabbonim we spoke to and I must have unintentionally
maligned them.  If all rabbonim conclude the halacha the way Rabbi
Bleich does (one IS required to donate) it still may not matter since it
is unclear whether the recipient is jewish. (I'm not sure does Rabbi
Bleich conclude that one is mchuyuv to donate even to a non-jew? Please
clarify...)  In any case, some said that one is not mchuyuv to donate to
a non-jew but certainly did not see any harm in it - it's a good thing
but may not be required the way its required for jews.

As far as organ donation is concerned, the halachic and hashkafic issues
are way more complicated.



From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:23:41 -0500
Subject: Chevron

This mornings headlines about the shooting in Chevron led me to think
about a "proper" jewish response to our natural desire to keep
Chevron. Halacha DOES speak about this. It does not suggest shootings or
uttering Psulta DNuras.  Jewish law is very clear that when the
community has a need it should proclaim a public fast, examine its sins,
repent and then has the right more or less to expect that G-d will
answer them.  What is bothering me is that no one even tries this

Here are some responses to possible rebuttals of the above idea:(1) What
sins do we have whose repentance will help us get back Chevron: ANSWER:
An obvious sin is the way we all bicker with each other as Datiim and Lo
Datiim and the various religious groups. (2) Why should conservative and
reform join a fast?  ANSWER: They can join the fast without fasting and
participate in the communities repentance. Note: This will also respond
to claims that datiim never do anything relevant (3) We should be doing
actions not prayers. ANSWER: Agreed. But we already have done everything
we could. The present shootings assassinations and public curses are not
viable alternatives.

What bothers me is that as orthodox people we believe in G-ds
providence.  Communal prayer is one of the few mitzvoth that affirms
this. Why has it been so neglected today especially now that we need it.

Russell Jay Hendel, Ph.d.,ASA
rhendel @ mcs drexel edu


From: Eliyahu Segal <segaleli@...>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 23:35:29 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Cohanim on planes

> If the problem according to Rav Moshe was the fact that the entire plane
> is one vessel, and therefore the tuma spreads throughout the plane
> regardless of any attempt to contain it (and that is how I understand
> the tshuva, although I am no Rav and could be misunderstanding it), then
> how does the solution Mr. Sukenik describes solve the problem? Answers
> will be greatly appreciated.

	You have an even bigger problem than.  If the plane itself
becomes tameih than how can a Cohen go on the plane even when it is not
actually carrying a dead body?



From: <Klugerman@...> (Tszvi Klugerman)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:55:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Gold at a Pidyon Haben

I recall many years ago seeing in a collection of minhagim, which I
cannot remember at the present, that there arose a custom to place all
the mother's gold jewelry around the bchor,(firstborn) in order to make
him more desireable to the father. Apparently, in one community, there
was the fear that the father might not think the price was worth it, so
the mother "reminds" him of all the potential wealth the baby will bring
by putting all her gold around the baby.



From: Catherine S. Perel <perel@...>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 00:15:13 -0600
Subject: Jewish and Non-Jewish Souls

In Vol. 25, #59, Zvi Weiss wrote:

> Finally, based upon the concept of "gilgul", R. Shani mentions (with-
> out comment) the possibility of one to be a Jew in one lifetime and a
> non-Jew in another....  I have no idea how he fits THAT into the above 
> model.

I once read in Encyclopedia Judaica, under the entry "Converts" or
"Prosethelytes"--I don't remember which, of a view that sincere converts
carry the souls of Jewish martyrs which leads the person to Judaism and
conversion.  Many converts describe their feelings after conversion of
"having come home."

  --Catherine Perel


From: Todd Zabel <TEZabel@...>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:07:05 -0600
Subject: Jewish Holidays

I has wondering if you know where I could find a file that I could
import into Microsoft Schedule+ that would give me all of the Jewish
Holidays for the next several years.

  Email:  <TEZabel@...> or TEZabel@aol.com
WWW:  http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tezabel


From: <tzywoolf@...> (Zemira and Tzvi Woolf)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:25:04 +0200
Subject: New Farberware. Reverware, and Ekco pots and pans- need kashering?

I'd like to know if there's any need to kasher new Farberware and/or
Reverware pots and pans? Or Ekco Baker's Choice pans?

The question stems from the use of oils on new pans by the manufacturer.

It also stems from the fact that my wife's parents just brought us a
_whole_ load of new pots and pans that we'd like to start using! My
mother-in-law says that it was never brought up as a sh'aila by their
rav in the U.S. but though I trust her judgement, I'd still like to make

Thank you very much.
Shabbat Shalom.

Tzvi Woolf


From: <ascent@...> (Yrachmiel Tilles)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 10:40:18 +0200
Subject: Terach minyan

Does anyone know the origin and intention of the expression "minyan Terach"
for those congregations who dovven shacharis amidah before sunrise?

Yrachmiel Tilles - ASCENT Seminars
PO Box 296       |    e-mail: <ascent@...> (YT)
13102 Tsfat       |    tel: 06-921364, 971407 (home: 972056)
ISRAEL            |    fax: 972-6-921942 (attn. Y.Tilles)


From: Chaim Twerski <chaimt@...>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 21:17:35 -0600
Subject: Tuition as charity

To this poster:
> 2. Dr. Twersky says that the "problem" of the high yeshiva tuition bills is 
>    not a real problem because it is charity and we are guaranteed that
>    G-d will repay whatever we spend on charity.  With that attitude we
>    should raise the tuition at most yeshivas and pay the rebbes a salary
>    they can really live on.
Carl Sherer writes:
>Is this correct? I always understood that the only part of Yeshiva 
>tuition that could be "deducted" as Tzedaka (charity) is the 
>difference between what one actually pays in tuition and the lowest 
>amount that anyone else is being charged (presumably excluding 
>teachers whose children are allowed to attend for free in lieu of 
>part of their salary).

My uncle was somewhat misquoted.  What the gemorra says (Betza 16a) is
this:" all the parnasa of a person is determined on Rosh Hashana (for
the following year) except for the amount of money spent to give honor
to shabbos and yom tov, and money expended on teaching Torah.  In these,
the more one spends the more is given (by the decree of Rosh Hashana)."

In other words, the decree on Rosh Hashana would read like this : X will
receive $75,455 for the coming year plus any amount he will spend on
Shabbos and Yom Tov plus his tuition.

Now, the same general idea exists with regard to zedakah, that "aser
b'shvil shetisaser", [give a tithe so that you will become wealthy], but
that does not mean the tuition is charity.  What was stated by Carl
Sherer, that full tuition should be considered partly as charity is
certainly a reasonable p'sak, since the amount over cost is going to
help out someone else who cannot afford full tuition.  But this cannot
be carried to the point of assuming that all of tuition is considered
zedaka.  Reb Moshe Feinstein has a tshuva that states specifically that
it is not considered tzedaka.

With regard to the concept of "kol hamosif mosifin lo" [the more one
spends, the more is added], see the Tur in the beginning of Hilchos
Shabbos (Section 242) regarding the discussions he had with his father,
the Rosh on this matter, since R. Akiva said, "make your Shabbosim as
mundane as weekday rather than accepting charity [to enable one to give
due honor to shabbos by purchasing expensive food and the like].

Chaim Twerski


From: <gseiden@...> (Garry Seidenfeld)
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:38:24 -0500
Subject: Yeshiva Tuition and Tzedakah

There is an english sefer called " Maaser Kesafim" edited by Cyril Domb
which discusses this issue in detail (Pages 115 - 118).  The editor
summarizes many Teshuvot and says "It is generally agreed that a person
should not use his maaser money for the Torah education of his own
children..." unless a person in "in financial difficulties".

He quotes Rav Moshe Feinstein and Rav S.Z. Auerbach as saying "that the
proportion of school fees that can be attributed to the education of
non-fee-paying children may be taken from maaser."  He also quotes the
Pri Yitzchak as being lenient in the case of older children (they were
discussing a 15 year old) since one is allowed to use maaser money to
support in any way, not just education, children over 6 yeras old.  He
says this is especially so when using funds for Mishna, Gemarrah,
Halacha and Agaddah (rather than Mikrah) which he considers a
non-enforceable mitzvah.
 From my own research (I am not a Rabbi) and looking at Rav E.
Waldenberg's chapter on Maaser in the Tziz Eliezer, Chelek 9, Siman
Aleph, it is clear he permits the use of Maaser money to pay for a
childs wedding, apartment, furniture etc. and living expenses
(especially if it allows the children to learn torah) EVEN IF THE
suggests one should make this a condition when separating the maaser
money but need/should not tell the children he is using maaser money for
these payments.

Rav Waldenberg goes on to show from many sources that a parents'
obligation to support his children is only to the age of six and
thereafter support is considered Tzedaka.  He quotes the Aruch
Hashulchan who dissents by arguing, if so the poor will never receive
any help since every person spends at least 1/2 of his earnings on his
children over 6.  Rav Waldenberg takes issue with the Aruch Hashulchan
and brings many proofs that one can use Maaser money to support, both
for living expenses and torah study, children over the age of 6.
NOTWITHSTANDING his writing pages proving the point, in his summary he
permits it for those in financial difficulty for kids above or below 6.

With the high cost of Jewish education in North America, I suggest a
local posek should be consulted as 5 children's tuition can easily reach
$35,000 annually.  Those asking for reductions in tuition and then not
counting tuition as maaser (ie. giving maaser money to other tzedakot)
are definately in need of a psak.

This was written Lezchut  a Refuah Sheleyma for Hayeled Boruch Yosef ben
Adina Batya as I continue to enjoy his father's contributions to this
and other lists.

Yehoshua (Garry) Seidenfeld


From: Lewis Reich <lbr@...>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 00:58:51 -500
Subject: Re: Yeshiva Tuition as Tzedaka

Carl Sherer asked, in response to a post by Eli Turkel:
> Eli Turkel writes:
> > 2. Dr. Twersky says that the "problem" of the high yeshiva tuition
> > bills is 
> >    not a real problem because it is charity and we are guaranteed
> >    that G-d will repay whatever we spend on charity.  With that
> >    attitude we should raise the tuition at most yeshivas and pay
> >    the rebbes a salary they can really live on.
> Is this correct? I always understood that the only part of Yeshiva
> tuition that could be "deducted" as Tzedaka (charity) is the
> difference between what one actually pays in tuition and the lowest
> amount that anyone else is being charged

I think that the Internal Revenue Code's provisions on deductibility
of charitable contributions (l'havdil) may not be identical the
halakhic definition of tzedakah. 
Lewis Reich


From: Aaron D. Gross <adg@...>
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 21:30:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Yeshiva Tuitions as Tzedaka

>Eli Turkel writes:
> 2. Dr. Twersky says that the "problem" of the high yeshiva tuition bills is 
>    not a real problem because it is charity and we are guaranteed that
>    G-d will repay whatever we spend on charity.  With that attitude we
>    should raise the tuition at most yeshivas and pay the rebbes a salary
>    they can really live on.

Did Rabbi Twersky indicate whether repayment is in this world 
or the next?  

This strains credibility since an engineer earning a respectible 
$60K salary with 4 children in yeshiva at $7K/each cannot possibly 
pay full tuition, given an additional $1000-$1500/mo in housing, 
plus food, tzedaka, car, taxes, insurance, etc., etc. 

My mortgage lender won't take Olam Haba Shekels as currency.

   Aaron D. Gross -- email:  <adg@...>    http://www.pobox.com/~adg  


End of Volume 25 Issue 70