Volume 26 Number 05
                      Produced: Thu Feb 13  6:40:46 1997

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Adamah and Eretz
         [Pinchus Idstein]
Cheating in yeshiva
         [Chaim Shapiro]
Going Waaay Back
         [Yeshaya Halevi]
non-Kosher Pets
         [Robert A. Book]
OU - Mezonos
         [Carl Singer]
         [Zvi Weiss]
         [Shimmy Y Messing]
Plastic Bottle Caps on Shabbat
         [Sarah Kaiserman]
Plastic Bottle Caps on Shabbos
         [Tszvi Klugerman]
Sephardic Minhag
         [Jerry B. Altzman]
Shared Names
         [Shimon Lebowitz]
Shidduchim and Illness
         [Chaim Shapiro]
Washing before Airline meals (mail-jewish Vol. 25 #95 Digest)
         [Andrew Marc Greene]
What is causation? Vol. 25 #98 Digest
         [Lewis Reich]


From: <RabbiI@...> (Pinchus Idstein)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:02:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Adamah and Eretz

<< Is there a difference between "adamah" and "eretz" as used in the Torah
 (or in the Na"ch, for that matter)? My father, while we were discussing
 parashat Yitro, guessed that their usage as it relates to the Land of
 Israel was different, but neither of us had read anything on this?
 Anyone know?
 Jacob Lewis >>

The Vilna Gaon in Aderes Eliyahu (Yeshaya 1:7) says Eretz is the Medina
& Adomo is the Fields. Eretz is a more general term Adomo more
specific.The Posuk in Yeshaya says Artzechem Shimuma....Admasschem Zorim
ochlim osah. The Vilna gaon in Aderes Eliyahu in Berashis 2:5 says that
when the posuk is talking about working the fields it says Adoma and
when talking size and measurement it uses Eretz. Also he adds any
reference to Eretz Yisroel is also Eretz. The example he brings is the
Gemora in Brochos that says...Al Payros Haaretz omer Borei pri
Hoadoma. I hope this helps....PMI


From: Chaim Shapiro <ucshapir@...>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:38:56 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Cheating in yeshiva

	Russell provides an explanation for cheating in yeshiva that
rings close to the infamous abuse excuse used in our court systems.
Menedez sound familiar?  I went to yeshiva, and graduated not so long
ago.  As I have written here before cheating did go on.  (more often in
limudei chol then limudei kodesh btw() However one could certainly not
write a description of the boy most likely to cheat.  There were
certainly those from families that were struggling financially, however,
it was just as common among the wealthier students as well.  What
injuistices are they reacting too?
	let us remember that yeshiva programs are very demanding. It
takes time and effort to succeed.  The yetzer to cheat and be able to
gain a few extra minutes of relaxation in an intense day can be
overwhelming. It is hard to describe how enticing a half hour football
game can seem to an overworked worn out student.
	I do want to make clear, I do not condone or in any consider
cheating acceptable, or excusable.  However I think in order to solve
the problem, its causes should be fully understood.  And instead of
looking to irrelevant outside societal influences, we must first explore
these student's milieu and what effect it can have on their lives and


From: <CHIHAL@...> (Yeshaya Halevi)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:49:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Going Waaay Back

       All the m-j debate over what solely constitutes correct Hebrew
pronounciation has given me more laughs that a lorry-load of nitrous
        Has it not occurred to anyone that we have _always_ had
different dialects?  Consider the evidence of Shofteem (Judges) 12,
where the men of Gilead identify the men of Ephraim by the latters' use
of the word "seebolet" instead of "sheebolet."
         Also, Mishnaic Hebrew differs from Torah Hebrew in structure
and vocabulary, to cite another obvious example.  Does anyone really
think that after all those years accents would have atrophied to totally
exclude changes in pronounciation as well?  Naaah!
         Hebrew is a living language, and as such, changes are the norm.
   Yeshaya Halevi (<Chihal@...>)


From: Robert A. Book <rbook@...>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:38:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: non-Kosher Pets

Zev Sero <zsero@...> writes:
> Bonnie Weinberg <schwara@...> wrote:
> > We have a pet rabbit and someone told me recently that you are not
> > allowed to own a non kosher pet. Does anyone have a sorce for this?
> It is forbidden to own a pig.  Some people may, as a `fence around
> the torah', also avoid owning guinea pigs, since they may be confused
> with ordinary swine.  But a guinea pig is a kind of rabbit, and so the
> most careful `baalei nefesh' would refrain from owning rabbits as well.

1) Why is it forbidden to own a pig?  Not like I'm about to go out and
buy one, but I have never heard this before, and I have heard that pigs
are intelligent (for animals) and make good pets (i.e., one might be
able to derive benfit from them, as from dogs or cats, without eating
them or their milk).

2) Related question: Is it permitted to wear pigskin shoes, carry a
pigskin wallet, and/or touch a pigskin football?  One the one hand, one
is not supposed to come in contact with that carcass of a non-kosher
animal, but most people swat flies, and many wear pigskin shoes, etc.

3) As for owning non-kosher animals, Jews owned horses and camels when
those were the primary means of transportation, and neither is kosher.

4) Comment: I've never owned either, but I've seen pigs, and I've seen
guinea pigs, and they don't look at all alike.  I have no idea why the
latter are called guinea "pigs."  They don't look like pigs any more
than elephants look like horses.

> However, according to a piece in the NY Times a few months ago, the
> most recent genetic research seems to show that guinea pigs are not,
> in fact, related to rabbits.  If this should be borne out by further
> research, it may be time to reevaluate this halacha. 

5)  Kal V'Chomer!  :-)    (Loose translation: "All the more so!")

--Robert Book    <rbook@...>
  University of Chicago


From: Carl Singer <CARLSINGER@...>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 13:30:36 UT
Subject: OU - Mezonos

From: Jack Hollander <100400.223@...>
>         I was also rather aFFronted by the OU hechsher notice which
> virtually lectured to me about why I wasn't supplied with Mezonos
> rolls ( rolls baked with juice rather than water so that  according to 

Again, I thought the OU was providing me with most useful information
about their policy and what they were doing about it.  I sense no
lecture whatsoever.  But then again, I don't feel picked upon by labels.

To delve further into the background, there have been long standing
issues about caterers at simchas, etc., using "Mezonos Rolls" (1) did
these rolls really meet the definition of Mezonos and (2) was it
appropriate not to wash when eating (apparently) large and complete
meals (?)

Carl Singer         <csinger@...>


From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:31:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Plagiarism

> From: Shimon Schwartz <shimmy@...>
> >From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
> >I have a very strong feeling that due to the "Frum" view that secular
> >studies are "really" a waste of time -- hence it is is but a short step
> >to syaing that it is OK to cheat/plagiarize, etc.  Witness what appears
> >to be the "dumbing down" of secular studies in the "frum" Yeshiva High

 Let me add (so that I can bring something in the name of the one who
first said it) that a significant portion of my post on this matter was
based upon a discussion with Arnie Lustiger...

> My conclusion, if the trend described over the past few months
> continues: We can look forward to employers and universities quietly but
> categorically rejecting applications from those with frum backgrounds.
> It will become common knowledge that the "real Orthodox" do not take
> secular knowledge or civil ethics seriously.

 What is worse is that places such as YU or Touro will ALSO be faced
with such an "unappetizing" choice -- given the cheating that goes on...

> As far back as 1981, MIT had followed Brandeis University's model of
> rejecting "transcripts" from Israeli yeshivot.  It was common knowledge
> that such transcripts were completely bogus.  Indeed, a rav at yeshiva
> that I was attending offered to issue me a transcript if I wanted one.
> (My transcript from Haifa University was accepted without question,
> presumably after MIT had verified that Haifa was an accredited
> university.)

 I do not understand how a Rav at ANY Yeshiva could practice what is
essentially "Geneivas Da'as" -- deception.

> I have no problem with those Jews who reject secular knowledge.  It is a
> valid line of Torah reasoning, though I personally follow a different
> one.  But those who falsely claim to have completely secular studies
> have only themselves to blame when no one wants them as employees.

Worse.  It becomes a source of unbelieveable Chillul Hashem
(Desecration of G-d's Name).  I do not understand how "Orthodox" --
"Torah-Observant" Jews have so little regard for the fact that "G-d's
People" will be regarded as a bunch of cheats and frauds.

> For those of you with *valid* secular backgrounds: what effects do you
> think this will have on your careers?

Worse.  Have any of you out there checked out the high-School situation
for your kids?  In many cases, the alternatives are VERY poor.  If you
have a "valid" secular background and you feel that it is legitimate for
your children to have the same even as they get a solid Jewish
background in BOTH "learning" and Middoth (Character Traits) -- check
out your options....



From: <shimmy@...> (Shimmy Y Messing)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:48:32 EST
Subject: Plagiarism/Cheating

Why do they do it? I don't know but unless there are harsher punishments
these same people will be cheating on their taxes, from their  employees
and employers,  even their families!  Think of the chilul Hashem then.
Something must be done now or this will only go on.


From: Sarah Kaiserman <yu200420@...>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:12:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Plastic Bottle Caps on Shabbat

About this bottle caps thing, we have gotten two opposing views in the
same posting at least twice now. Can someone please recap the exact source
of the T'shuva (Response) by R' Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, and then we can
look it up ourselves rather than relying on conflicting information. Thank
you in advance.

-Sarah Kaiserman


From: <Klugerman@...> (Tszvi Klugerman)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 14:44:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Plastic Bottle Caps on Shabbos

In a message dated 97-01-26 09:20:48 EST, Yussie Englander inquired
 <<" Has anyone heard of a psak by Rabbi  Shlomo Zalman Aurbach (my apologies
for any misspelled name) regarding the  opening of PLASTIC bottle caps on
shabbos? >>

Start with chapter 9 of Shemirat Shabbat K'hilchata vol1. (most especially
footnotes 60, 61, 61*)

Tszvi Klugerman


From: Jerry B. Altzman <jbaltz@...>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 21:26:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Sephardic Minhag 

   On Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:37:10 PST, Fred Dweck wrote:
   Michael Shoshani wrote in MJ 25#97:
   >There is one Sephardic "Sheheheyanu" minhag pretty much unknown outside
   >its community: Persians have the minhag of lifting the Sefer Torah and
   >reciting "Sheheheyanu" on the night of Yom Kippur, right after Kol Nidre.
   >No other Sephardic group does this.
   That is incorrect. To the best of my knowledge all Middle Eastern
   Sepharadim say Sheheheyanu after Kol Nidre. The Syrian Jews certainly do.

This seems to put everyone in line with Birnbaum's Machzor, which also has
Or is Michael referring to the "lifting the sefer torah" part?

Tizku l'mitzvot,

jerry b. altzman   There is no universe   --   P. Halmos      +1 212 785 4445
<jbaltz@...>   jbaltz@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu                KE3ML


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:39:48 +0200
Subject: Re: Shared Names

> named "Likutei Amarim". It was called "Tanya" (after the first word in
> the sefer) to distinguish between it and the sefer "Likutei Amarim" by
> the Mezritcher Maggid, the Baal HaTanya's primary rebbe.

As long as we are mentioning it.... the Chofetz Chaim 
also wrote a sefer 'Likutei Amarim'. :-)

Please pray for my cousin:
  Aharon Yitzchak ben Devorah Leah, 
  May G-d grant him a refuah shlema (full recovery)!
Our thanks to Him for the improvement in   
  Chaim Asher Zelig ben Sarah's condition. 

Shimon Lebowitz           
Jerusalem, Israel                   mailto:<shimonl@...>
http://www.randomc.com/~shimon/    IBMMAIL: I1060211


From: Chaim Shapiro <ucshapir@...>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:38:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Shidduchim and Illness

	I find it interesting that many young men and women spend
incredible amounts of time uncovering minor, inconsequential evidence of
illnesses in the past while overlooking the much more important and
germaine aspects of who their perspective partner really is.  With rare
exceptions, you are not marrying your partners childhood illness.
However, you better believe that you are marrying his/her personality,
mannerisms and haskafa.  We, as a community have to shift the focus of
shiduchim back to what is important; that which allows for the
establishment of a healthy, long lasting, solid relationship.  And I
assure you probing into childhood illnesses is not it.


From: Andrew Marc Greene <amgreene@...>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:40:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Washing before Airline meals (mail-jewish Vol. 25 #95 Digest)

My usual solution is to ask the flight attendant for a glass of water.
(I pour it over my fingers into the coffee cup, since I don't drink
coffee while flying. I suppose one could ask for an empty cup...)

- Andrew Greene


From: Lewis Reich <lbr@...>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:39:44 -500
Subject: Re: What is causation? Vol. 25 #98 Digest

On  2 Feb 97 at 13:11,  Russell Jay Hendel wrote:

> It would therefore seem that causation is complicated and depends on
> immediacy, the number of acts involved and the number of objects. Does
> anyone have a good explanation/clarification?

Legally culpable causation is a difficult issue in any legal system.
Foreseeability of the consequences is often a factor in whether
liability will attach, as well as whether the act was reckless or

Lewis Reich


End of Volume 26 Issue 5