Volume 26 Number 24
                      Produced: Wed Apr  9  6:59:50 1997

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Administrivia - Moderator in Sharon, Mass for Pesach
         [Avi Feldblum]
Bar Mitzva at age 12
         [Rafi Stern]
Chicken and Fish Gelatin
         [Micha Berger]
Elyon Kosher Gelatin
         [Michael Shoshani]
Kosher Geletine
         [Michael J Broyde]
         [Michael J Broyde]
         [Martin Rosen]
Pesach and out of Country Guests
         [David I. Cohen]
         [Ruth Nordlicht]
Spelt Matza
         [Benjamin Waxman]
         [Yehuda Poch]


From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 06:58:17 -0400
Subject: Administrivia - Moderator in Sharon, Mass for Pesach

Hello all,

As we approach Pesach, I'm getting the issues out in a more regular
manner (maybe it's the fear that old messages will become Chametz :-)
). I hope to be able to continue this through Pesach.

I and my family will be up in Sharon for Pesach, and I would be happy to
see any of the mail-jewish family while we are there. In addition, is
there anyone who would be able to put myself, my wife and our 1 year old
up (no special sleeping arrangements needed for Ephraim) for the first
days (and maybe through Shabbat) who does not have any pets (my wife is
allergic to dogs and cats).

Thanks in advance, and I'll some to say in this corner over the next few



From: Rafi Stern <rafistern@...>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 22:07:42 PDT
Subject: Re: Bar Mitzva at age 12

Recently in our community here in Bet Shemesh, a boy whose father was
terminally ill with cancer had his Bar Mitzva a year early in order that
his father might be there. Unfortunately, his father died a couple of
months later and the boy (who is the deceased's only male child) now
says Kaddish for him although he has still not reached age 13.

Rafi Stern
Tel:   (H)972-2-9919162  (W)972-3-6873312 
Email: <rafistern@...>             


From: <micha@...> (Micha Berger)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:07:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Chicken and Fish Gelatin

>                    If not, if processing this fish jello makes it truly
> pareve, then why doesn't processing kosher animal gelatin make *it* pareve?
> Are the rules with regard to processing fish products different?  

I wouldn't think so. I would just assume that it is made from kosher
fish. Since fish doesn't require shechitah, it's ought to make their
lives simpler.

> [PS from Cynthia Tenen: --and on the practical side, can I make chicken
> aspic with it??]

This is actually an interesting halachic question. We do not mix meat
and fish for "health reasons". Since we are worried about the kashrus
of gelatin, we are assuming that gelatin has the halachic status of
any other meat. In this case, shouldn't the gelatin be considered fish
-- and therefor not usable with chicken?

Micha Berger 201 916-0287        Help free Ron Arad, held by Syria 3763 days!
<micha@...>                         (16-Oct-86 - 7-Apr-97)
For a mitzvah is a candle, and the Torah its light.
http://aishdas.org -- Orthodox Judaism: Torah, Avodah, Chessed


From: <shoshani@...> (Michael Shoshani)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 07:13:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Elyon Kosher Gelatin

Stan Tenen writes:
> Does anyone know how the "unflavored kosher gelatin" manufactured by Elyon
> of Canada is O-U pareve?  It was my understanding that this gelatin is from
> fish.  (Does anyone know if this is correct?)  Would that not require an O-U
> Fish designation?  If not, if processing this fish jello makes it truly
> pareve, then why doesn't processing kosher animal gelatin make *it* pareve?
> Are the rules with regard to processing fish products different?  

Unless Elyon has made drastic changes since they first introduced their
product, their gelatin is a byproduct of the shechita industry; Elyon
gelatin is made from the hides (NOT the bones) of Kosher-slaughtered

<shoshani@...>        //   In the beginning, God made idiots;
  Michael Shoshani     //   This was for practice
    Chicago IL, USA   //   Then he made school boards.
http://miso.wwa.com/~shoshani/   //                             --Mark Twain


From: Michael J Broyde <mbroyde@...>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:43:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Kosher Geletine

Someone questioned whether kosher geletine should be parve or not.
Although there is a dispute about this, the concensus is that all
geletine is parve, as the intense chemical processing removes the meat
status from the final product.  You might ask, if that is the case, why
is the processing not enough to make non-kosher geletine kosher, and
indeed, there were halachic authorities -- including Rav Chaim Ozer
Grodzinsky -- who ruled all geletine kosher.  However, that logic is not
fully complete, there is a very normative halachic position that only
geletine from kosher animals is kosher, and it is parve.  (The issue has
much to do with the limits of the "achshevai" principle of kashrut, in
that you cannot "achsehva something into being meat, but you can do so
into being food.) I beleive that there is a published teshuva from the
OU about this issue that was distributed in the daf hakashrus

Michael J. Broyde
Emory University School of Law
Atlanta, GA 30322
Voice: 404 727-7546; Fax 404 727-3374


From: Michael J Broyde <mbroyde@...>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 19:34:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mermaids

A person mentioned to me that there were a series of midrash agadot about
the kashrut of mermaids (I promise).  I have looked a bit for them, with
no luck.  Has anyone seen any such midrashim.  (For a similar discussion
about animals with human form, see Yerushalmi, Niddah 3:2).

Michael J. Broyde
Emory University School of Law
Atlanta, GA 30322
Voice: 404 727-7546; Fax 404 727-3374


From: Martin Rosen <mrosen@...>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 10:47:59 -0400
Subject: Mikvah 

> Indeed, this is and was the case.  In the olden days, when electric
> lighting was either non-existant or sparse, most women (in some places
> all) went to the mikveh by daylight since it was unsafe to be out alone
> at night.  
> The reasons it is preferable to go at night stem firstly from tznius
> (modesty).  By going at night, women draw less attention to themselves
> and to the fact that they are going to the mikvah. 

While some of the reasons given for nighttime mikvah going stand the
test of logic and reality, these do not.  Even here (Toronto), in what
is considered a relatively "safe" city by American standards, I find
that women most certainly do not feel safe alone at night.

As far as tzniut is concerned, by showing up at the (shul-based) mikvah
at the same time as men are attending mincha/maariv in the same
building, certainly makes for much more visibility than would arrival
say, sometime in the early afternoon when almost no men are ever at
shul.  (Which all connects to another pet peeve: why do the designers of
synagogue mikvahs so often put their entrances in the most indiscrete
locations?  Are there no halachic guidelines on this?)

Martin Rosen


From: <bdcohen@...> (David I. Cohen)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:31:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Pesach and out of Country Guests

As Pesach is upon us, with many who live in chuz l'aretz (outside)of
Israel) planning to spend their Pesach vacation in Israel, questions
naturally come up regarding the those who are obligated to keep a second
day of Yom Tov. Specifically, can a Jew who resides in Israel perform
melacha (prohibited activities) for another Jew who is keeping a second
day of Yom Tov, while in Israel? Do the laws which prohibit a non-Jew
from performing melacha for a Jew apply to that situation, or not?
Specifically, can the Diaspora-residing Jew be given an automobile ride
(to shul?) by the Israeli (assuming that the Israeli opened and closed
the door)? In Israel there would be no "marit ayin" problem.  Does the
leniency of "simchat Yom Tov" (allowing certain activites to enhance the
joy of the holiday) come into play?
    Best wishes for a chag sameach v'kasher wherever you'll be.
    David I. Cohen


From: <Sewenjoy@...> (Ruth Nordlicht)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 14:42:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Quinoa

In a message dated 97-04-06 09:11:02 EDT, you write:

<< oes anyone know about the status of Quinoa, Millet, and/or Kasha
 (Buckwheat) as far as use on Pesach? >>

In an article in Kashrus Kurrents (Rabbi Heinerman of the Star K in
Baltimore) there is an article entitles "Quinoa: The Grain That's Not".
I quote "Quinoa was determined to be Kosher L'Pesach in the summer of
1996, when Rabbi Aaron Tendler of Yeshivas Ner Israel, brought a box of
quinoa to Rabbi Blau, Dayan of the Eidah Hachareidus in Israel.  Rabbi
Blau consulted with professors at the vulcan Institute and ruled quinoa
to be Kosher L'Pesach.

"Rabbi Blau told Rabbi Tendler that quinoa is not related to the
chameshet minay dagan, five types of grain, nor to millet or rice. It is
according to the Towson Library Reference Desk, a member of the "Goose
foot" family, which includes sugar beets and beet root.  It does not
grow in the vicinity of chameshet minay dagan.  As with other Pesach
products, quinoa should not be purchased from open bins, but rather in
sealed packages".

The article continues with preparation instructions.  The Star K phone
number is 410-484-4110.


PS  Any recipes?

[Similar Responses received from:

Freda B Birnbaum <fbb6@...>
Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...>



From: Benjamin Waxman <benjaminw@...>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 17:03:50 +0300
Subject: Spelt Matza

To people with wheat allergies who want to enjoy the Seder:
We found Shmura matza made from spelt (yes spelt!) in Brooklyn.  If you are
wheat and/or oat intolerant, spelt is a very good alternative. 

These matzot can be found at:
Williamsburg Matza Bakery
18 S.11th Street between White and Kent
Brooklyn 718-599-5878

I am not going to go into the quality of the heksher; each person can
judge/ask for themselves.  However we will be eating them come Leil haseder.

Ben Waxman, Project Manager
email: <BenjaminW@...>
Telephone: +972-2-6528274 ext. 112
Fax: +972-2-6528356


From: Yehuda Poch <yehuda@...>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 15:29:59 +0300
Subject: Re: Upsherin

>From: <yoss@...> (Yossi Gold)
>Can anyone provide me with any sources regarding an Upsherin (First
>haircut to 3 year old) during a leap year. For those who have the custom
>not to cut any hair before the child reaches his third birthday, should
>it be done in the first Adar or the second?

I recently attended a shiur by Rav Zeev Leff in which he discussed a
whole bunch of inyanim regarding the extra month and annual observances
that fall out during that time.  He said that for yahrzeit's it is
customary to observe both in the first and second adar.  This was new to
me.  But he also said that for birthdays it is only customary to observe
in the second adar, just as Purim and Taanit Esther are only in the
second adar.  This, of course, unless the actual date of the occurrence
(in the case of this question, the birth) happened in the first adar of
a leap year, in which case, it is observed only in the first month.  For
a child observing his third birthday this year, that would not be the


End of Volume 26 Issue 24