Volume 26 Number 35
                      Produced: Fri May  2  7:31:56 1997

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

A  Connection Between Hebrew & English
         [Ken Miller]
Computers vis Shabat
         [Avraham Reiss]
Correspondance between English and Hebrew alphabets
         [Micha Berger]
Dikduk Query
         [Elozor M Preil]
Form of Masc./Fem. Numeric Adj in Hebrew
         [Leslie Train]
Form of the Numerals in Hebrew as Adjectives
         [Israel Rosenfeld]
Gerim as Rabbis - any restrictions?
         [Zvi Weiss]
Hebrew-English Revisited
         [Harvey Benton]
Is There A Connection Between Hebrew & English?
         [Isaac Mozeson]
Machon Ot
         [David Steinberg]
Zeicher Amaleq - Pronunciation
         [Jordan Penkower]
Web Site by Rabbi Yosef Bechhofer
         [Michael J Broyde]


From: Ken Miller <kgmiller@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:59:39 -0500
Subject: Re: A  Connection Between Hebrew & English

In MJ 26:28, Dave Brotsky notices many similarities between the Hebrew
and English alphabets.

I have noticed similar connections long ago. Go to your public library
and look for just about any book about the development of languages, and
you'll have more than enough info to go on. I think you'll find the job
simpler if you go from Hebrew to Greek, and then Greek to Latin, rather
than trying to jump straight from Hebrew to English.

A = aleph
B = beis
C is a very strange letter. It really has no sound of its own. In
English it is always a "k" or "s" sound, but in other languages it has a
"ch" or "tz" sound, or even others. So let's match C with gimel.
D = dalet
E is a vowel. Often enough, so is heh.
F = vav. Why not? They sound close enough to me!
G, when it is soft, has a "j" sound, not far from zayin
H = ches, especially in Sefardi pronunciation
Where did tes go? I dunno.
I = yud
J became a distinct letter from "I" only a few centuries ago. In German,
J is still equivalent to yud.
K = kaf
L = lamed
M = mem
N = nun
We're gonna have to skip over samech. I don't know why.
O is a vowel, not unlike ayin.
P = peh
Let's skip over tzadi too. Don't know why.
Q = kuf. By the way, don't ever let anyone tell you that the sound Q
makes is "kw". The "w" sound comes from the "u" which follows the "Q".
When the "u" is missing from the spelling, the "w" will be missing from
the sound. "Q" on its own has a "k" sound, pure and simple.
R = resh
S = shin
T = tav
U, V, W all used to be the same letter. Check out any Roman inscription
for proof.
Those three, as well as X, Y, and Z, are additions more recent than

Mr. Brotsky notes that <<< Then there is a pasuk from Nach - something
to the effect that "I will send you a clear language".  Aryeh Kaplan, et
al, theorizes that since the majority of the world now speaks English,
the "clear language" mentioned in Nach, might be English. >>>

I would like to see that quote in its original, because what I have
noted is that several languages have taken turns being in the position
of Most Popular Language Worldwide. For many centuries, Latin was the
language of scholars of all kinds. In the 1700's and 1800's, French was
the language of choice for diplomats of the world. In the early 1900's,
no scientist would dare be unable to read German. And now English is the
Universal Language in all walks of life, or so it seems to us. I don't
see anything divine in that, except that we should thank HaShem that we
were fortunate enough to have learned such a useful tool when we were


From: Avraham Reiss <areiss@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:29:10 +0300
Subject: Computers vis Shabat

> If someone uses the system when it is Shabbos where he is (assuming he
> is Jewish) it is his sin not yours.  It is not even a consideration of
> lifnei iver [do not put a stumbling block before a blind person].
> |  Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz |     Im ain ani li, mi li?      |

It can't be that simple, for there is an issur against benefitting from
another Jew's Chilul Shabat, one opinion saying that one must wait after
shabat 'bichdei sheya'aseh', i.e. wait after shabat the period of time
it took to do the melacha, a second opinion (not, if I recollect
correctly, accepted as halacha) saying that from a Jew's chilul shabat
it is always forbidden to benefit (I apologize for the spilt

Avraham Reiss,


From: <micha@...> (Micha Berger)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:49:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Correspondance between English and Hebrew alphabets

Well, the English alphabet is based on the Latin, which developed from
the Greek, which came from the Phoenician, which in turn had much in
common with the Hebrew and other Semitic neighbors.

So, for example, aleph, bet, gimel, dalet became the A, B, the combined
C/G, D. Q,R,S,T are from quph, reish shin taph.

Different languages dropped letters they didn't need, added letters at
the end, or split a letter into two I/J (which is a /y/ sound in German)
and C/G are obvious examples.

Linguistics is a field of study, and won't fit into a single post. But
that's the basics of it.

Micha Berger 201 916-0287        Help free Ron Arad, held by Syria 3770 days!
<micha@...>                         (16-Oct-86 - 15-Apr-97)
For a mitzvah is a candle, and the Torah its light.
http://aishdas.org -- Orthodox Judaism: Torah, Avodah, Chessed


From: <empreil@...> (Elozor M Preil)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:06:39 EDT
Subject: Dikduk Query

Re the word "kos" (cup), my small "milon" (dictionary) has it as
feminine.  My guess is the mikra source is Tehillim 23: "kosi revayah".
Yet the mishna in Pesachim ch. 10 has it both ways: "v'lo yifchasu lo
me'arba (f) kosot shel yayin", but also "mazgu lo kos rishon (m)" and so
sheini and shlishi.

And then there's the line in the famous Shabbos zemer: "al kos yayin
maleh (m)"

Any thoughts or comments?

Kol tuv,


From: Leslie Train <ltrain@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:11:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Form of Masc./Fem. Numeric Adj in Hebrew

I understand the confusion, and all I can say is that English does a
similar thing in the present tense, third person. Eg. he (sg) sits, they
(pl) sit. Normally, the s suffix denotes plurality, and a lack of same
(null ending) shows singularity. But in the verbal system, it's pinkt
farkehrt! You'd expect he sit, they sits.
 Deep down, I believe it's like that just to make life interesting.
Les Train


From: Israel Rosenfeld <iir@[]>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:17:38 +0000
Subject: Re:  Form of the Numerals in Hebrew as Adjectives

> From: Meylekh Viswanath <viswanat@...>
> Does anybody know why the numerals in Hebrew take on a feminine-seeming
> form when modifying a masculine noun and a masculine-seeming form when
> modifying a feminine noun?  I.e. shlosha talmidim, but shalosh talmidot.
> Thanks.

The suffixes of numbers 1-10 are the opposite to the general rule.

Five: Chamishah(M) -> Chamesh(F)
Student: Talmid(M) -> Talmidah(F)

Behatzlacha raba.



From: Zvi Weiss <weissz@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:16:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Gerim as Rabbis - any restrictions?

> From: Aryeh Meir <ameir@...>
> On another list it was mentioned that a ger who is now a rabbi may not
> sit on a beit din for the purpose of conversion?  Is this true?
> It came as a surprise to me as I thought there were no restrictions on
> gerim past conversion(except for those dealing with cohanim).
> If it is true can some one explain the halakha in this area?  Are there
> any other restrictions.

 Reference the Gemara at the beginning of Sanhedrin (among other sources
-- also at the end of Kiddushin) which discusses the requirement that
the "Dayan" ("Judge") be "Meyuchas" -- (i.e., of "Jewish Descent")
menaing that at least the Mother be Jewish...  Hence a Ger can not
(always) serve as a Judge on a Beit Din...



From: <Harvey_Benton@...> (Harvey Benton)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:26:24 -0400
Subject: Hebrew-English Revisited

The following question was posted last week by a friend of mine
(<davetrek@...>), and I am re-submitting it in a clarified form.

Hebrew-English Revisited:

To those who responded to my earlier query regarding the connection
between Hebrew & English .... I was thinking more in terms of something
that's able to be proven simply and mathematically.

Along the lines of hidden "codes" or words, or intelligible sentences in
English say hidden in the Torah.  E.g., finding a key that would link
Hebrew to the English (if it exists.), by a simple formula.  Something

Aleph=1, Bet=2, Gimmel =3


A=1, B=2, C=3

A formula or "key" would have to be found, e.g.  n(Hebrew) = n(Engish)

Given that one of the responses mentioned other "universal languages", I
would say if English doesn't provide any tie-in, then Greek might.
Greek is the only other language in which we are allowed to write a
Sefer Torah (Rambam, Megilla 8b?).

This may prove to be fruitless, trying to find a connection where there
is none, but if someone has the software set up, it might be interesting
to run through different possibilities and see what pops up.

A Happy and Kosher Pesach to All :>


From: Isaac Mozeson <mozeson@...>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 03:45:50 -0700
Subject: Is There A Connection Between Hebrew & English?

> A friend of mine was wondering about the relationship between Hebrew and
> English. I thought the list might be able to answer his question.
>  Is there some sort of connection between Hebrew and English?  The two
> alphabets start out pretty parallel (at least phonetically) but then
> fall apart.
>       A - Aleph  (match)
>       B - Beth   (match)
>       C - Gimmel (not really)
>       D - Dalet  (match)
>       E - Hey    (sort of close)
>       etc.
>       Then there is a pasuk from Nach-  something to the effect that "I will
>       send you a clear language".  Aryeh Kaplan, et al, theorizes that since
>       the majority of the world now speaks English, the "clear language"
>       mentioned in Nach, might be English.
> Has any work been done on computers to try to find a tie-in from Hebrew-
> English. In other words, something akin to the Discovery codes, but
> along different lines?
> David Brotsky

Dear David Brotsky et al:

I have given much of the last 20 years of my life to your question about
the links between Hebrew and English. Just as clearly as the Aleph-Bet
gave the illiterate Greeks an alphabet (notice even how U-V-W are
attempts to cover the versatile Vav), so English and all human languages
are garbled versions, babble-ized post-Babel forms of the safa berurah
(pure language of Zephaniah), the Edenic original language programmed
full-blown into the enlarged cranial cavity of the original Cro-Magnons
that we might call proto-Semitic, best demonstrated in the Hebrew of the
early Torah.
 I can offer 23,000 fully researched examples, but let me attach my email 
address and website: <mozeson@...> 

You'll get an overview of the topic, and I can provide files on unknown
borrowings (giant oversights like OGre and COLLOSus from Og and
Golias/Goliath), Grimm's Law changes (how the ElM tree came from ilaN,
shade tree), metathesis (why MaRKwting is really MoKHeR, to sell) and
even the lost meaning of English animal names (the Giraffe, Gopher and
Skunk mean "Scruff of Neck," "Digger," and "Stinker" only in the
language of Adam and Eve.
 Lest you dismiss the work as a bible fundamentalist hell-bent to prove
Genesis 11:1 as literal truth, the oldest human skeleton ever found with
the hyoid bone for speech was unearthed in the Carmel Caves of Haifa,
Israel in 1994. This puts the burden of proof on anyone who feels that
proto-Semitic was NOT the original human tongue.  David's question about
resources to study this phenomenon is also answered in the files I offer
free to Shamash readers and to everyone who wants to discover a new
science, a new, ordered universe of meaning where professors see only
chaotic human evolution from jabbering apes.
 SHaLoM (source of SoLeMn, grand SLaM and SO LoNg),
Isaac Mozeson


From: David Steinberg <dave@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:05:34 -0400
Subject: Machon Ot

Rabbi Broyde asked for a reference to a Machom in Israel that deals with
Sifrei Torah.  I am aware of Machon Ot -- an institute that specializes
in the restoration of sifrei torah.  Rav Steiner is the head of the
Machon.  I have dealt with them and can recommend them highly.  Their
phone # (pre-seven digit) was (02) 780164.

Ah Koshern Pesach

Dave Steinberg


From: Jordan Penkower <penkowj@...>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:42:02 +0300 (WET)
Subject: Zeicher Amaleq - Pronunciation

Concerning M Frankel's inquiry regarding the pronunciation of "zeicher
amaleq" (with zere or segol under the zayin), and the origin of the [late
Ashkenazi] custom of double pronunciation, see now, in detail, my study
just off the press:
   "Minhag UMassorah: 'Zeicher Amaleq' BeHamesh O BeShesh Nequdot"
   (with Appendices dealing with the pronunciation of "Yissachar", and the
   reading of Megillat Ester: VeLaharog [8:11], Lifneihem [9:2]),
 published in: Iyyunei Miqra UFarshanut, Volume 4, Bar-Ilan University
Press, Ramat-Gan 1997, pp. 71-128.
       Jordan Penkower


From: Michael J Broyde <mbroyde@...>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:41:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Web Site by Rabbi Yosef Bechhofer

I am writing to recommend to the users of mail.jewish the web site of
Rabbi Yosef Bechhofer's shul, which contains many interesting essays by
him, as well as links to other interesting sites.  The full address is
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/6147 (caps sensitive) and the
address for accessing the essays is

I wish everyone a chag kasher vesameach.

Michael Broyde


End of Volume 26 Issue 35