Volume 26 Number 44
                      Produced: Sun May 11 12:32:25 1997

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Books on Marriage
         [Melvyn Chernick]
Character codes for "extended" Hebrew fonts
         [Andrew Marc Greene]
         [Carl Singer]
         [Zvi Goldberg]
Hebrew & English Alphabet Links
         [Mike A. Singer]
Judaica Databases
         [Joshua W. Burton]
Proper pronunciation
         [Gad Frenkel]
Quinoa - Kosher For Pesach?
         [David Brotsky]
Returning Two Sifrei Torah To Ark
         [Russell Hendel]
Significance of Hashgacha
         [Andy Goldfinger]
Similar question to hair from avodah zarah -- gold
         [Aaron D. Gross]
Wheel Chair Users
         [Mordechai Eisenberg]
Wigs made from hair from India... a problem?
         [Aaron D. Gross]
Yerushalayim Phone numbers
         [Shimon Lebowitz]


From: <chernick@...> (Melvyn Chernick)
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:20:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Books on Marriage

Another very good work on Jewish marriage is:

by Rabbi Maurice Lamm.


From: Andrew Marc Greene <amgreene@...>
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 11:44:58 -0400
Subject: Character codes for "extended" Hebrew fonts

I am working on a program and need to represent some characters that are
not in the Hebrew fonts that I have purchased. I'll be cobbling together
my own fonts (unless someone has a better solution), but I feel certain
that these characters have probably already been assigned codes by those
publishers of Hebraica that already typeset them. It would be great if I
could use the same assignments as others.

So, does anyone know of standard codes for the qamatz qatan and for any
(or all) of the ta'amei hamiqra?

Responses to me personally and if there's interest I'll summarize for
the list. (I can't imagine that this is a popular subject :-)

  Andrew Greene <amgreene@...>


From: Carl Singer <CARLSINGER@...>
Date: Thu, 8 May 97 20:57:10 UT
Subject: Corporations

There has been considerable discussion re: Supermarkets whose
shareholders are Jewish when it comes to issues of selling Chumetz, and
since they're open for business during Pesach -- when you can again
purchase from them.  Mapping the definition(s) of corporation unto the
"Pesach Situation" is of interest.  In many cases management is also
Jewish so this may be a moot point.


From: <zg@...> (Zvi Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 22:43:42 EDT
Subject: Hail

	Is there a bracha which can be made on hail ? In Berachos 9:1,
several things are listed on which you make a bracha  - earthquakes,
thunder, hurricanes, lightning, even rain - but hail is not mentioned.
Has anyone seen or heard anything on this ?


From: <m-singer@...> (Mike A. Singer)
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:00:19 +0100
Subject: Hebrew & English Alphabet Links

The following reference was recommended to me, as a discussion of the
connections between the Hebrew and English alphabets.

A. Katz "A new transliteration of Hebrew into standard characters"
Applied Linguistics Vol. 8 no. 3 p.306


From: Joshua W. Burton <jburton@...>
Date: Thu,  8 May 97 15:29:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Judaica Databases

Uri J. Schild <schild@...> writes:
> A statistically significant random sampling of the Responsa
> Project's texts is carried out after proof-reading, and the
> attained accuraccy is 99.95% (i.e., less than 5 errors per 10,000
> characters).  ...  However, the great majority of other texts
> have never been proofread, despite assertions otherwise by the
> producers. The accuraccy is deplorably low.  It is an interesting
> Halachic question whether one may actually sell, purchase or even
> possess such erroneous texts. See Shut haRemah, Siman Yod....

I've put in a couple of hundred volunteer hours myself, working on text
recognition problems in various public-domain etext projects, and at
least for English-language texts, I am compelled to point out (with no
intention of giving undue offense) that 99.95% accuracy is not even
deplorable---it's _intolerable_ for any serious purpose, and texts at
this level of accuracy, which translates to at least one error on every
two-sided page of an ordinary paperback, are treated only as rough
drafts by _free_ text projects.  It's hard to believe that Hebrew etext
standards are this much lower: Mr. Schild seems to be bragging about an
error rate equivalent to 300 mistakes in the text of the Humash alone!

It seems quite harsh to suggest that such texts are actually posul to
the point of being forbidden to own, as even a safek on this issue could
have profound financial consequences in this emerging business.
Nonetheless, the poster here forces us to consider a valid halakhic
question, one well within m-j's scope.  I am eager to hear what others
have to say about the sources Mr. Schild cites: in particular, is it
possible that _all_ currently available products of this sort are
forbidden to the possession of an observant Jew?  Certainly a seller of
ordinary _printed_ sforim who could only claim an accuracy of one error
per few hundred words would be in an unenviable halakhic and (hv"s)
secular legal position if he tried to sell his wares for money.  And the
Bar-Ilan texts are, according to what we read here, the best now
available, yet still (says the poster) only at that level.

The overall tone of the posting raised a few questions in my mind with
respect to the moderator's responsibilities: factual information about
the advantages of one product over another is no problem, even when it
comes from an interested party, but the remarks about buying competing
products if you want to put them on display shelves instead of using
them struck me as rather snide.  Even more disturbing, the poster's
gripes about legal issues apparently involving theft of intellectual
property---with no substantiating details provided because of "libel
laws"---amount to a vague accusation left hanging against the parnasa of
other Jews.  I don't see how this can be reconciled with our charter,

[You are correct, those lines should have been removed from the
post. Mod.] 

     Unix *is* the answer, |===================================================
but only if you phrase the | Joshua W. Burton   (847)677-3902   <jburton@...>
question very carefully.   |===================================================


From: <Garry_J_Frenkel@...> (Gad Frenkel)
Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 11:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Proper pronunciation

Can anyone clarify the rules for the pronunciation of a Chataf-Patach.
I realize that this will be difficult in written form so let me be a bit
more specific.  The word BAGALA, Bais Ayin Gimel Lamed Aleph, found in
Kadish with a Chataf-Patach under the Ayin.  Is it pronounced Bah Ah Go
Lo - or Bah Go Lo, with perhaps a slight emphasis on the ah of Bah, but
not with a separate syllable for the Ayin.

Gad Frenkel


From: <DaveTrek@...> (David Brotsky)
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:38:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Quinoa - Kosher For Pesach?

A friend who is a nutritionist sent me the following regarding Quinoa and its
the way it is processed, which bears on whether it is Kosher For Pesach,
aside from questions as to its kitniot status. With his permission I am
posting this to the list. Hopefully we can get a response and maybe actually
have kosher lepesach quinoa next year!

David Brotsky
I've just come across some information regarding the processing of quinoa
that could disqualify it for use on Pesach. This information is not based
on its possible staus as a kitniyot product.

When quinoa is growing, it develops a layer of a class of chemicals
called "SAPONINS" on its outer surface.  This chemical imparts a bitter
taste to the grain making it safe from birds and other creatures that
might otherwise eat it. In order for quinoa to be edible, the saponins
must be removed.  This can be done in one of two ways. The most commonly
done way, is to wash the grain, and then dry it. The drying is done in
ovens. So here we have our first problem. We do not know if this oven
was used to dry or cook other grain products.

The other way to remove the saponins is manually, similar to the way the
chaff is removed from grain. This process also uses machinery similar to
that used for other grain products.  This leads to the possibility that
the machinery was used in the past to process one of the five grains as

It would be best for those kashrut organizations that give hechsers on
boxed and packaged quinoa products all year round to look into these
difficulties and see if they could be overcome for next year's Peasach.

David Hoch : <dmh38@...>


From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Hendel)
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 19:00:17 -0400
Subject: RE: Returning Two Sifrei Torah To Ark

Michael and Abby Pitkowsky ask for sources about returning two sifrei

Searle E. Mitnick in turn mentions the last out first in principle. He
asks for further customs.

The place where I lained in High School had the following custom: Last
out, First in and reversal of ornaments. In other words the crown and
yad of the first sefer Torah goes on the second sefer Torah and vice
versa. Like Searle I would be interested if others have heard of this
and if there are sources.

Russell Jay Hendel, Ph.d, ASA;<rhendel@...>


From: Andy Goldfinger <andy_goldfinger@...>
Date: 8 May 1997 09:42:13 -0400
Subject: Significance of Hashgacha

There has been some discussion of women or gerim as mashgichim
[supervisors of kashrus].  My question concerns a meta-issue: just why
do we need mashgichim on a halachic basis?

Now, of course, I wish to ensure that the food I eat is kosher.  So, I
generally buy products that have hasgacha [supervision] unless I have
been informed by experts in the field that the item does not need it
(e.g. frozen orange juice).  Also, I generally patronize only those
restaurants and/or food service institutions that have supervision.  But
-- is this only a choice I make to maximize the probablilty that I am
getting kosher food, or is there a halachic requirement to patronize
establishments with hashgacha?  (In which case there would indeed be a
halachic position on who may act as a mashgiach)?

I would have thought that there is a halachic requirement for hashgacha,
but here in Baltimore, which is a fairly observant town in which the
kashrus standards are pretty high, there is one delicatessan that,
AFAIK, has NO hashgacha and which is patronized by almost everyone in
the observant community.  This establishment seems to be the last of a
breed, a leftover from an era in which there was no strong kashrus
organization in the city, and "everyone" has "always eaten from him."  I
don't doubt that if he were to retire and sell his business then the
buyers would have to arrange supervision to stay in business, but at
present there does not seem to be any halachic reason not to buy there,
and therefore I ask: is there in general any HALACHIC reason to require


From: Aaron D. Gross <adg@...>
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 23:00:23 -0700
Subject: Similar question to hair from avodah zarah -- gold

In a USENET newsgroup, in response to my question about hair used in
wigs produced as a result of explicit avodah zarah, someone raised the
question about the use of gold.  Would melting the gold render it avodah
zarah-free?  If treif ovens can be kashered through heating it to
"glowing", could an idol be melted and used to make kosher wedding

Hair obviously can't be melted down.

---   Aaron D. Gross -- http://www.pobox.com/~adg  


From: <MEisenb904@...> (Mordechai Eisenberg)
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:08:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wheel Chair Users

I am a 51 year old male with a spinal cord injury.  Because of that
injury I use a wheel chair.  I would like to correspont with an Israeli
w/c user.  I am interested in finding an appartment in Israel.

Mordechai Eisenberg
Southfield, Michigan


From: Aaron D. Gross <adg@...>
Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 17:08:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Wigs made from hair from India... a problem?

>From: Ezriel Krumbein <ezsurf@...>
>Subject: Re: Wigs made from hair from India... a problem?
>I do not remember the name of the sefer but Rav Moshe Sternbuch
>addresses this issue in one of his small sefarim.

Waiting for the other shoe to fall...

What was the general pshat?  Assur or muttar?

---   Aaron D. Gross -- http://www.pobox.com/~adg  


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 13:27:46 +0300
Subject: Yerushalayim Phone numbers

David Steinberg <dave@...> mentioned:

> Their phone # (pre-seven digit) was (02) .... 

for the convenience of any of you who have 
old six digit yerushalayim phone numbers recorded,
here is the conversion to new 7 digit ones:

  /-  3...
5 --  6...  prefix a 5 to old (6 digit) numbers 
  \-  8...       beginning 3, 6, or 8

  /-  2...
6 --  4...  prefix a 6 to old (6 digit) numbers  
  \-  5...       beginning with 2, 4, 5, or 7
   -  7... 


Please pray for my grandmother:
  Sara Rivka bat Golda Miriam, May G-d grant her health and long life.
And my cousin:
  Aharon Yitzchak ben Devorah Leah,  May G-d grant him a refuah shlema
(full recovery)! 


End of Volume 26 Issue 44