Volume 26 Number 77
                      Produced: Fri Jul  4  9:24:06 1997

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Ball Game Seats/Squatting
         [Mark Ganchrow]
Capital punishment
         [Ranon and/or Yocheved Barenholtz]
Ketubim in Shabbat Minha
         [Menashe Elyashiv]
         [Tzadik and Sheva Vanderhoof]
Lab Ba'Omer
         [Michael Rosen]
Lo Rainu Ra'aya
         [Eric W. Mack]
Mezonot Rolls
         [Carl Sherer]
Pidyon HaBen
         [Tzadik and Sheva Vanderhoof]
Recording Phone Conversations
         [Andy Levy-Stevenson]
Separating Challah
         [Akiva Miller]
Tashlomin and a minyan
         [Chaim Shapiro]
Torah tapes
         [Ovadiah Dubin]


From: Mark Ganchrow <MGanchrow@...>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 97 16:50:11 UT
Subject: Ball Game Seats/Squatting

>>From: Chaim Shapiro <ucshapir@...>
>> 2) The Cubs almost always sell out, and I couldn't get any good seats.
>>However, given the teams record and the time of year, the stands were
>>almost completly empty, so I moved down.  The park is certainly makpid
>>the tickets, I would be forced to move.  The purchaser of those seats,
>>if indeed they were sold, chose not to atttend.  It doesn't harm him if
>>I sit in his empty seat.  What then is the issur?

>How is this different from being a squatter?  If you owned a vacant
>apartment building, do you have the right to insist that squatters
>not inhabit your building?

The difference (as I see it), is that squatters *do* reduce the value of
the property, and I would not think it a safe assumption that the
*renter* of an apartment (the seat's ticket-holder) would welcome
un-invited guests. A ticket-holder who is not using the seat for a
particular game can derive no other benefit from that seat, and is
losing no value. For that matter, he may be assuming that someone else
is likely to use that seat. Seems to me though, that unless you know
that the seat has been paid for, you'd be "upgrading" yourself and
causing economic harm to the seat's owner (the ballpark).

Is it a little like copying software you would *not* have bought anyway?


From: <babybarons@...> (Ranon and/or Yocheved Barenholtz)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:37:25 -0400
Subject: Capital punishment

 Eli Clark wrote that Rabbi Bleich said that courts would need two
witnesses to convict somebody. The requirement for two wtnesses is
limited to Jews, however for nonjews  only one witness is required. 


From: Menashe Elyashiv <elyashm@...>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:39:23 +0300 (WET)
Subject: Ketubim in Shabbat Minha

S. Katz stated that the Sefaradi minhag is to say Mizmor 111 - no, this is
the Hassidic minhag. The Sefaradi minhag is to say Mizmor 92 (so do some
Ashkenazim also). Of course on Shabbat Yom Kippur no Mizmor is said
because a "real" Haftara is readed. 


From: Tzadik and Sheva Vanderhoof <stvhoof@...>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:59:15 +0300
Subject: Re: Ksuvim

> From: <gershon.dubin@...> (Gershon Dubin)
> 	Does anyone know of an instance (since the time of the Gra who, 
> I understand,  had a set) of a set of ksuvim written on parchment like a
> sefer torah?

One thing I know is that at the Lederman shul in Bnei Brak, Israel, they
keep a Sefer Tehillim (Psalms) written on parchment.  There is a certain
rabbi (I forget his name) who has a custom to go to this shul before
sunrise every day and say Tehillim from this scroll, and other people
sometimes read over his shoulder.  I think he may even say the Tehilim with
a "trop" (tune).  He then davens with the "netz" (sunrise) minyan there.


From: <MRosenPSI@...> (Michael Rosen)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 16:18:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Lab Ba'Omer

>   Last Shabbos I was talking to my Rov and I asked him why does
>Everybody say Lag Be'omer, even when they say Le'omer when they count?
>He answered me that the main Yom Tov of Lag Be'omer stems from the fact
>that it is Reb Shimon Ben Yochai's Yarzeit.
>    The Gemmorah at the end of Moed Koton tells us that when we say
>"good bye" to a living person one says LECH LESHOLOM, go to peace.
>However when saying "good bye" to a deseased person one says LECH
>BESHOLOM, Go IN peace.  (See the Maharsha for an explanation of what the
>difference is)
>   Therefore since it is Reb Shimon Ben Yochai's Yarzeit we use the term
>Ba'Omer With a Bais, the same way we say lech Besholom.

I think that this is a nice totally non-historical explanation. The
answer is much simpler- first the Sepharadim call it Lag La'Omer. It
also happens that in the debate as to how to count, the Ashkenazim
adopted (on the whole) to count Ba no La Omer. Once the Hassidim adopted
certain customs of the Sepharadim due to the influence of the Ari they
adopted LaOmer. But common conversation remained


From: <ce157@...> (Eric W. Mack)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:13:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Lo Rainu Ra'aya

When my wife was sitting shiva, I asked the shul Rabbi if the gabbai
should clop [announce] "nichum aveilim(ot)" [may the mourner be
comforted] when she came into shul Friday nite after L'cha Dodi.  He
called me back later that day to say no, he didn't have a makor [source]
for clopping for a woman avel.

Have others seen a kahal [congregation] recite nichum aveilot for
female mourners?

Eric Mack    <ce157@...>


From: Carl Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:40:23 +0200
Subject: Mezonot Rolls

In Volume 26 Number 18, Tanya Scott writes:

 Interestingly, I recently learned that if you're eating
> only a slice of pizza, you don't say yadayim, but you wash and say
> hamotzee and birkat ha'mazon after.  If you eat another slice after your
> initial hamotzee and washing, you needn't add anything else before
> benching.  Two or three slices up front though require everything for a
> regular hamotzee.  I hear that things may be a little different in other
> states where a slice of pizza is considered mezonos.

Last year, I attended a regular shiur in Hilchos Brachos in Har Nof,
which I think I have mentioned on this list before.  The Rav who was
giving that shiur discussed this issue.  If I recall his words
correctly, he distinguished between pizza eaters in Israel and those in
America.  In America, he said that pizza is a "chatif" (snack) and
therefore one did not need to wash and bench to have one slice.  But in
Israel, he said that people are kovea seuda (make a meal) out of pizza,
and that therefore washing, motzi and benching are required for even one

-- Carl Sherer
Thank you for davening for our son, Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya. Please
keep him in mind for a healthy, long life.


From: Tzadik and Sheva Vanderhoof <stvhoof@...>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:11:17 +0300
Subject: Re: Pidyon HaBen

> From: <StevenJ81@...> (Steve White)

> In #73, my good friend Dr. David Riceman (<dr@...>)
> wrote at some length about the shiur of Pidyon HaBen.  Being nowhere
> near as learned as he is, I have nothing to answer him, but I can add
> some things that I heard:
> 1. I've heard that the custom in the old days was to use *seven* of
> the old-style silver dollars, not five, presumably because five did
> not reach the shiur of five sheqalim *b'sheqel haqodesh.*
> 2. For my son's Pidyon, I tracked down some of the coins minted by the
> Israeli government expressly for the purpose.  It is a set of five
> coins, each weighing one sheqel.  (They come with a certificate which
> I believe explains the source of the ruling they used, but the coins
> are put away in the safe-deposit box for him, so I can't get at it so
> easily.)  I've never heard anyone complain that these coins were
> inadequate to the purpose.  Of course, these coins are denominated in
> *lirot,* so they have no nominal face value at all any more.

Rav Zev Leff, rav of Moshav Miatisyahu in Israel, recently gave a shiur
on Pidyon HaBen.  At the shiur he passed around the old Israeli coins
minted for this purpose.  He still keeps these coins for use by anyone
who wants to use them for Pidyon haBen.  He said it is irrelevant that
they are marked in lirot, since the face value does not matter at all
for the mizvah, only the value of the silver contained in them.

If I'm remembering right, I think he mentioned that US silver dollars
minted before 1965 each contain a bit more than a "holy shekel's" worth
of silver, so five would be sufficient.

Rav Leff also mentioned that silver need not be used at all (although it
is the custom).  You could use any object that has the *inherent* value
of 5 holy shekels.  This value depends on the current price of silver.
Paper money *cannot* be used because the paper itself has practically no
*inherent* value...the value comes only from convention.  An example he
gave that could be used instead of silver is a piece of clothing.

Another interesting tidbit from that shiur...there apparently is an
opinion that the daughter of a cohen is valid to accept the pidyon, but
we don't rely on this opinion "lechatchila".  However, because of this
opinion, some people are accustomed, in the case of where the cohen's
wife is a daughter of a cohen, to make a condition that if the it turns
out that the husband is not a true cohen, then his acceptance of the
money should be on behalf of his wife.


From: Andy Levy-Stevenson <teafortwo@...>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 97 14:06:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Recording Phone Conversations

Avraham Reiss wrote:

>I would suggest checking out Rabeinu Gershon's Issur against reading
>other people's mail.

Without having read this issur: Isn't there a difference between other's
people mail (which has nothing to do with you) and a phone call in which
you are a participant?

To take this a little further, if one writes a letter to a friend, one
has de facto "read" the letter. Seeing as you are privy to the contents
of the call you record, since you're a participant, why not record it?
You aren't learning anything new.

Now, while that might be logical, personally I'd tell the other
party. It seems a bit intrusive not to, but I couldn't say exactly why.

 Andy Levy-Stevenson                    Email:   <teafortwo@...>
 Tea for Two                            Voice:              612.920.4243
 A Design and Communications Company    Fax:                612.920.4436


From: Akiva Miller <kgmiller@...>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:50:20 -0500
Subject: Separating Challah

In MJ 26:75, Carolyn Lanzkron and our Moderator asked why a Bat Kohen or
Ben Kohen need to separate challah from their dough. Their presumption
seems to be that after all, once it has been separated, they may eat
both the challah and the remainder of the dough, so why bother?

There are several answers:

(A) They may eat the challah portion only if they and the challah are
both tahor (spritually pure), so separating it solves the practical
problem of causing the larger portion to become permissible.

(B) Even if they are in fact tahor, they should not (may not? I don't
remember) keep the challah portion for themselves, but rather they do a
mitzvah by giving it to another kohen.

(C) Most importantly, the statuses of "challah" and "permitted larger
portion" do not apply until after the mitzvah of declaring the challah
has been performed. Until that point, then entire dough has the status
of "tevel", which is forbidden to everyone.

The same question and answer applies to all forms of trumah, and all
forms of maaser.

Philsophically, I was taught that the word "tevel" is related to the
phrase "tov lo" (where "lo" is spelled lamed aleph) meaning "not good".
This is because the dough (or Israeli food, in the case of trumah and
maaser) has a certain holiness in it, but that holiness is spread out
through the whole dough, making it diluted, useless, and "not good".
When the challah is separated, that holiness is concentrated into the
small portion, rendering it fit but only for a kohen, and the remainded
becomes "chullin" - devoid of holiness and fit for anyone.

Akiva Miller


From: Chaim Shapiro <ucshapir@...>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:57:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Tashlomin and a minyan

	Let's suppose that a minyan for mariv has 4 people who have
already davened, 5 who have not, and one individual who had davened, but
missed mincha and had not yet said his tashlomin, may he count as the
tenth man?



From: Marty <docmarty@...>
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 12:34:01 +0300
Subject: Torah tapes

I live in Israel and am looking for sources for audio tapes on torah
topics, especially gemara.  I would appreciate references for local
sources, mail sources, internet sources, E-mail, etc.  If this is not
appropriate for posting to the group, it would be OK to contact me
    Thank you.



From: <ovad@...> (Ovadiah Dubin)
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 13:36:47 EDT
Subject: Vered-Lilly

  The original confusion comes from the English translators attempt to
reproduce the beauty of the original "ani chavatzelet hasharon shoshanat
ha'amakim" . To get the beautiful alliteration, the meaning was altered.
Rose of sharon and Lilly of the Valley.  In the original, Shoshana and
Sharon supply the alliteration (with a slight assist from the ending of
chavaTZELET ),
                   Chag Someach             Ovadiah


End of Volume 26 Issue 77