Volume 27 Number 18
Produced: Sun Oct 26 22:51:50 1997
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Answering to Kaddish via Video Feed
[Mark H. Goldenberg]
Ayin HaRa
[Yeshaya Halevi]
Ayin Hara: Births vs Bar Mitzvahs and Weddings
[Janice Gelb]
Evil Eye
[Warren Burstein]
Migdol & Magdil
[Haim Shalom Snyder]
Migdol/Magdil
[I. Harvey Poch]
Responding to Kaddish, live time radio
[Boruch Merzel]
Sheva Brachos at Shalishudis (2)
[Chaim Z. Shapiro, Avi Feldblum]
Shir Ha'Ma'alot and Al Naharot Bavel
[Jeff Fischer]
Shir Hamaalos vs. Al Naharos
[Dov Teichman]
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From: <GOLDDDS@...> (Mark H. Goldenberg)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:35:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Answering to Kaddish via Video Feed
I had the pleasure of attending the Siyum Daf Yomi celebration in
Los Angeles. In the auditorium, in addition to a live siyum of Shas,
where the Kaddish was recited and everyone answered Amen, we received
the "live" feed from Madison Square Garden in New York. It was
announced to all of us in the Los Angeles that Halachically, since it
was a "live" feed, we were all to answer to the Kaddish when it was
broadcast from New York. It was quite the experience for all attending,
especially when we knew we were reciting "Yehay Shmei Rabba"
simultaneously with other communities around the country. We're already
looking forward to the next siyum in 71/2 years!!
Mark H. Goldenberg, DDS, MS
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From: <CHIHAL@...> (Yeshaya Halevi)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:05:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Ayin HaRa
Shalom, Chaverim:
Russell Hendel, writing on the subject of "Ayin Hara: Births vs Bar
Mitzvahs and Weddings," asks << Why do we have EVIL EYE prohibitions for
buying baby presents (before the birth) but not for bar mitzvahs and
weddings? >>
Please permit me to begin with a scientific/common sense
explanation, and then... Nu, read on:
1. The odds of a newborn dying within a short time before or
after birth are far greater than those of a 12-year-old dying before his
bar mitzva, especially during the eras this practice originated. Ergo,
the superstitions associated with the "evil eye" have a tiny grounding
in fact. Superstitious Yiddlach are, understandably, terrified of a
"premature death." But a 12-year-old and a bride/groom, having made it
through the most difficult years of life and having survived deadly
childhood dieases, has a hazaka (propensity) of sorts that they will
keep on living longer. (However, I am told that bridegrooms, being the
objects of intense envy on the part of less fortunate males, had one
protection against the "evil eye; walking backward.)
2. There is no "evil eye." Period. And anyone who believes
in it is following pagan precepts and violating the Torah's commandments
against "darkhe ha-Emori," the ways/customs of the heathens."
Speaking of non-Jews, the Jewish Book of Knowledge says that
"An assumption commonly held by the early Gentile-Christians (in
contradistinction to the early Jewish-Christians) was that every Jew,
because he was believed to be the Devil incarnate and a sorcerer,
possessed the magic powers of the evil eye. Matters finally reached
such a crisis that the Church Council of Elvira (held in the fourth
century C.E. in Spain) actually promulgated Canon Law 49, which forbade
Jews from standing amidst the ripening crops belonging to Christians
lest, with their malevolent glances and hypocritical words of blessing,
they cause them to rot and wither!
"The myth of the evil eye was so deeply etched on the
consciousness of the German folk that their name for it during the
Middle Ages was (and still is) Judenblick (Jew's look)."
I think it's time we abandoned superstition -- maybe even put a
stake though its heart ;)
Yeshaya Halevi (<Chihal@...>)
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From: <janiceg@...> (Janice Gelb)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 10:02:18 -0700
Subject: Ayin Hara: Births vs Bar Mitzvahs and Weddings
Ayin Hara: Births vs Bar Mitzvahs and Weddings
In vol 27, Russell Hendel wrote:
> Why do we have EVIL EYE prohibitions for buying baby presents (before
> the birth) but not for bar mitzvahs and weddings? I believe this can be
> explained using a recent explanation I made in another email group on
> the meaning of the EVIL EYE.
>
> I basically posited that
> EVIL EYE = RIGHT TO SOCIAL PRIVACY = RIGHT NOT TO BE EXCESSIVELY TALKED ABOUT
[further explanation of this concept snipped]
I believe there is a much more practical explanation for this: one does
not have a reasonable expectation that weddings and bar mitzvahs will
not take place. However, it is an unfortunate fact that many pregnancies
and birth experiences end in the loss of a baby, Especially for the
expectation of a first child, having baby presents around the house when
a pregnancy has ended tragically should be avoided.
Janice Gelb | The only connection Sun has with this
<janice.gelb@...> | message is the return address.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8018/index.html
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From: Warren Burstein <warren@...>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 15:18:52 +0200
Subject: Re: Evil Eye
>Russell Hendel suggests that
>EVIL EYE = RIGHT TO SOCIAL PRIVACY = RIGHT NOT TO BE EXCESSIVELY TALKED ABOUT
>In other words just as halachah recognizes my right to visual
>privacy--e.g. I can force my neighbor to participate in building a fence
>between me and him in order to prevent him "from seeing me (and invading
>my privacy)--so to does halacha recognize my right not to be the "talk
>of the town"--(which I (loosely) call social privacy). Some examples
>illustrate this:
>
>* If my father and I get an aliyah then we will be the "talk of the
>shule" (e.g. "Do you see all the honors the Hendel family is getting?")
>
>* If I "eye" my neighbors field during periods of growth I might talk
>about his success and "make him the talk of the town"
>
>Hence, consecutive aliyahs and viewing fields are EVIL EYE prohibited
There is a difference with consecutive aliyot and viewing fields - I get to
decide if my field gets viewed or not, and I am under no obligation to put
up a fence if neither I nor my neighbors want one. Could I renounce my
right to privacy and get an aliya after my father?
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From: <snyder@...> (Haim Shalom Snyder)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 22:38:30 +0200
Subject: Re: Migdol & Magdil
>From: <oppy2@...> (Steven M Oppenheimer)
>Whatever the reasoning, the custom is to say magdil weekdays and migdol
>on Shabbat, Yom Tov Chol Ha'Moed and Rosh Chodesh. As for Chanukah and
>Purim, I've heard different opinions. Anybody have any definitive
>sources? How about Shir Ha'Ma'alot vs. Al Naharot Bavel?
I have a bencher which answers both questions easily. The rules it
gives are as follows:
Shir HaMa'alot is said on days one doesn't say Tahanun (this includes
Sheva Brachot, since tahanun is not said in the presence of a groom
during the seven days after his wedding).
Migdol is said on days when there was an additional sacrifice and,
therefore, the musaf service is said. This does not apply to either
Purim or Hanuka, since both occured after the desruction of the First
Temple.
In other words, on both Purim & Hanuka, one says Shir HaMa'alot and
Magdil. On Shabbat, Yom Tov, Hol HaMoed and Rosh Hodesh, one says Shir
HaMa'alot and Migdol. At a Sheva Brachot, one says Shir HaMa'alot and
whichever verse is appropriate for that particulr day (Migdol or Magdil,
most commonly Magdil). During the month of Nisan, the last days of
Tishri and the first 12 days of Marheshvan on weekdays, one says Shir
HaMa'alot and Magdil.
Haim Shalom Snyder
<snyder@...>
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From: I. Harvey Poch <af945@...>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:54:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Migdol/Magdil
Steve Oppenheimer introduced a new note to this discussion by stating
that 'magdil' was written before David became king and, therefore is
said on weekdays, etc.
Perhaps 'magdil', which is a verb implying much effort, is said on
weekdays when work of all sorts is permitted (including Chanukah and
Purim), while 'migdol', which implies no active effort, is said on days
when work is not permitted or is at least greatly restricted (including
chao hamo'ed).
I. Harvey Poch (:-)>
<af945@...>
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From: <BoruchM@...> (Boruch Merzel)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:51:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Responding to Kaddish, live time radio
Carl Fisher inwuires about responding to Kaddish, etc. when heard on
live TV or Radio, Rav Avadia Yosef addresses this very Sh'ailah in his
Sefer"Ychavah D'as" Vol II Questionm 88, concerning hearing S'lichos
over the radio, joining in the 13 Midos, etc. After quoting G'morrah in
Succos that "not even an Iron Curtain (not original with Churchill) can
separate Israel from its Father in Heaven>" he concludes that one should
respond to lamen, etc. However, he reminds us that one cannot be Yotzei
in this manner, one's obligation to hear Kiddush or the reading of the
Megilla
May all have receive\d a Piska Tovah on this Hoshannah Rabba
Boruch Merzel
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From: Chaim Z. Shapiro <cshapir@...>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 17:01:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Sheva Brachos at Shalishudis
I recently attended a sheva brachos during a shalishudis meal.
Usually, the wine used for bentching is utilized for havdalah. What
happens when there is a sheva brachos?
The problem lies in the fact that customarily the chason and
kallah drink from the sheva brachos cup. However, normaly, one does not
eat or drink after bentching for shalishudis (which is after sunset).
Are the sheva brachos made? Do the choson and kallah drink from the
wine? Lastly, for us single folk who always get the wine shoved in our
faces, (Im not bitter :-) can we drink as well?
Chaim
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From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:57:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Sheva Brachos at Shalishudis
Chaim Z. Shapiro writes:
> I recently attended a sheva brachos during a shalishudis meal.
> Usually, the wine used for bentching is utilized for havdalah. What
> happens when there is a sheva brachos?
> The problem lies in the fact that customarily the chason and
> kallah drink from the sheva brachos cup. However, normaly, one does not
> eat or drink after bentching for shalishudis (which is after sunset).
> Are the sheva brachos made? Do the choson and kallah drink from the
> wine? Lastly, for us single folk who always get the wine shoved in our
> faces, (Im not bitter :-) can we drink as well?
This is one of the "halachot" that I find have a lot more behind it than
meets the eye. It appears to be accepted today that we do not drink the
wine from the Kos shel Beracha [the cup of wine over which the bentching
was made] if the time is after sunset. The reason being that once senset
occurs, we are prohibited from starting to eat or drink until we make
Havdalah. If drinking the wine is considered starting to eat or drink,
this should be true.
I believe it is clear that this is not the view taken by the early
poskim. This cup is associated with the previous meal, and therefore if
you could have eaten prior to bentching, you can drink the cup of wine
after bentching. The reason is that one always uses a cup for saying the
blessing over, as long as you have a mezuman (three people eating
together), and you are likely to have that on Shabbat.
If, however, you usually do not use a cup to bentch over, and only use
it if, say, there are ten or it is a simcha etc, then the cup would no
longer be associated with the previous meal, and would indeed not be
allowed to be drunk. It appears that the above (not always using a cup
for bentching) became the norm in Eastern Europe, sometime during the
last 200 years. I strongly suspect that it was due to the high cost and
therefore general lack of availability of wine in many of those
communities. I do not understand why it continues in many places today,
where people are likely to have wine in their house, or can easily
acquire it.
Avi Feldblum
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From: <NJGabbai@...> (Jeff Fischer)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 16:34:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Shir Ha'Ma'alot and Al Naharot Bavel
<< Whatever the reasoning, the custom is to say magdil weekdays and migdol
on Shabbat, Yom Tov Chol Ha'Moed and Rosh Chodesh. As for Chanukah and
Purim, I've heard different opinions. Anybody have any definitive
sources? How about Shir Ha'Ma'alot vs. Al Naharot Bavel?
Steven Oppenheimer, D.D.S.
<oppy2@...> >>
As far as Shir Ha'Ma'alot and Al HaNaharot Bavel are concerned, Shir
HaMa'alot is said on any day that we do not say Tachanun and Al
HaNa'arot is said on days that we do say Tachanun.
Jeff
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From: <DTnLA@...> (Dov Teichman)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 17:51:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Shir Hamaalos vs. Al Naharos
>How about Shir Ha'Ma'alot vs. Al Naharot Bavel?
Many Chassidim, based on the Baal Shem Tov, say Shir Hamaalos all year round
except for the Seudah Hamafsekes before Tisha Bav.
Dov Teichman
<dtnla@...>
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End of Volume 27 Issue 18
