Volume 28 Number 34
                      Produced: Fri Nov 27  9:01:10 1998

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Escorting the Sefer Torah (2)
         [Israel Rubin, Gershon Dubin]
Finishing the Pasuk
         [Yehuda Poch]
Greetings after Birkat Kohanim
         [Fred Dweck]
Receiving compensation for learning/teaching tora
         [Chaim Mateh]
Singular vs Plural in Birchat HaChodesh (7)
         [Jeff Fischer, Neil Parks, Michael Poppers, Boruch Merzel,
David I. Cohen, Sheldon Meth, Mitchell P. Laks]
The time of the Molad (2)
         [Hillel Markowitz, Alexander Heppenheimer]


From: <Israel_Rubin@...> (Israel Rubin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:41:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: re: Escorting the Sefer Torah

> Last Thursday, someone in shul told the person who lifted up the Torah
scroll that he has a specific obligation to follow it back to the Ark.
Is there such an obligation, above and beyond that of everyone else in
the congregation? <

See the Remah in O.C. 149 who says the person who lifts the sefer up
should escort it back (as should anyone else who the sefer passes by).
The Mishnah Berurah quotes other authorities who say this applies to the
person who winds it up as well.

From: <gershon.dubin@...> (Gershon Dubin)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:56:40 -0500
Subject: Escorting the Sefer Torah

	Shulchan Aruch Orach Chaim Siman 149 in the Rema.  It is not
clear whether or in what way the one who lifts the Torah and the one who
rolls it up are different from everyone else, but the Rema does mention
the two obligations separately.



From: Yehuda Poch <yehudap@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:27:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Finishing the Pasuk

My father and I are both ba'alei tefila for the yamim noraim.  While he
and I both inject a little twist to the pasuk where it is interrupted, I
have never heard anyone else do likewise.

The pasuk is "ki vayom haze yechaper aleichem letaher etchem mikol
chatoteichem lifnei Hashem titharu."

In the tune for the recitation of the tefillah, the word "Hashem" is
sung on a slightly downward turning note, preparing for the word
titharu, which is sung on a heavily downward turning final note.

When my father or I get to the word "Hashem", we sing it as we would in
the normal pasuk, ending in what is effectively the vocal equivalent of
a ...  We leave the tune hanging.  Then we go into the next paragraph,
and when we get to "titharu", we sing it as we would have in the pasuk,
ending the sequence.

Every other ba'al tefilah I have heard sings it as if the pasuk ends
with "Hashem".  But if it is done the way I have described above, it can
help to vocally illustrate the simultaneousness of the actions being
carried out by the kohen and by the people in the narrative.

*            Yehuda Poch                *  Phone: 03-640-8249 / 640-6154  *
*  Coordinator for Project Development  *  Fax:   03-640-7080             *
*        Tel Aviv University            *  email: <yehudap@...>  *


From: Fred Dweck <fredd@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:30:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Greetings after Birkat Kohanim

David Curwin wrote:
>So for a long time I have been trying to come up with an alternative
>response to "baruch ti'hiye". ("Thanks" just doesn't seem to cut it.)
>Recently, I recieved a brilliant suggestion from Prof. Dov Rappel (a
>member of our kibbutz). So now, as a response to "yishar koch'cha" after
>birkat kohanim, I reply: "koch'cha yishar".

I had submitted this several weeks ago, but it never got published.

The answer is "Titbarechu min hashamayim." (May you be blessed from
heaven) This is the response in the Syrian (and other Middle Eastern)

This response solves the problem of "bal tosif" and acknowledges the
pasuk which follows Birkat Kohanim: "Vesamu et shemi ahl Benei
Yisrael......."  (And they shall place my name on the children of Israel
and I shall bless them). Therefore, "May you be blessed from heaven" is
the appropriate response.

Fred (Yeshuah) E. Dweck (Hakohen)


From: Chaim Mateh <chaimm@...>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:15:04 +0200
Subject: Receiving compensation for learning/teaching tora

Joel Rich wrote:
<<Does anyone know of any compilation of sources on this topic? I'm
interested in the historical flow which to my admittedly untutored eye
appears to have gone from being considered an act of the evil inclination
to take compensation to now being an act of the evil
inclination not to take compensation.>>

For starters:
See the Remo on Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah, 246:21.
See the Shach on the above Remo.  
Also, Kesef Mishne on the Rambam Hilchoss Talmud Torah 3:10. 
And lastly, see Igross Moshe, Yoreh Deah chelek 2, Siman 116.

Kol Tuv,
Chaim Mateh


From: <NJGabbai@...> (Jeff Fischer)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:53:53 EST
Subject: Singular vs Plural in Birchat HaChodesh

If you were to say that Rosh Chodesh were during 2 days of the coming
week, then you would say Ba-im.  But since you are saying Thursday and
Friday (separately), so it is only Ba,

From: Neil Parks <nparks@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 98 13:01:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Singular vs Plural in Birchat HaChodesh

Personally, I always thought that ha-ba refers not to the day or
days of Rosh Chodesh, but to the month as a whole.

In this case I think ha-ba functions as a noun instead of a verb, as in
Baruch Ha-Ba (blessed is the one that comes).

So what we're really saying is, "(We pray that) the coming month of
Marcheshvan, which will make its debut on Thursday and Friday, will be
good for us."  Compare a similar phrase in Kol Nidre: "...mi-yom
kippurim zeh ad yom kippurim ha-ba aleynu l'tova".

...This msg brought to you by NEIL PARKS      Beachwood, Ohio
 mailto:<nparks@...>       http://www.en.com/users/neparks/

From: Michael Poppers <MPoppers@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:35:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Singular vs Plural in Birchat HaChodesh

The "ha'boh," like the "yih'yeh" verb construct, refers to "Rosh Chodesh
<month>."  You might prefer a construction of "Rosh Chodesh <month> ha'boh
oleinu l'tovah yih'yeh...." but I have the feeling that the author(s)
wanted to end the phrase with "l'tovah," and, whether or not that was the
original intention, we then segue into a continuation of the "l'..."
construct with "...l'chaim u'l'...."

All the best from Michael Poppers =*= http://eCode.com/?MPoppers%40work

From: <BoJoM@...> (Boruch Merzel)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:09:45 EST
Subject: Singular vs Plural in Birchat HaChodesh

Michael E. Rosenberg writes that while "bentching "Rosh chodesh Kislev: 

"I instinctively substituted the plural verb "ha ba'im" aleinu
l'tova for the singular "ha ba" aleinu l'tova as there were two days of
Rosh Chodesh. "

I agree that it is logical that the verb "ba" refers to the day of the
week on which Rosh Chodesh will occur and not to any part of the month
being announced. This is especially true in light of the "Y'hi ratzon"
that had been recited prior to the announcement and the special
blessings for the month requested in the subsequent prayer "Y"chadshehu"
It is true, too, that to have the verb "haba (im)" relate to Rosh
Chodesh makes for very clumsy phrasing and we see no such construction
elsewhere.  Note, too, the use of of the same phrase, "haba alwenu
l'tova", in the Kol Nidre where the words refer to the noun , "Yom
Kippurim", directly preceding .

It has been my personal practice to use the word "haba-im" whenever
there are 2 days of Rosh Chodesh to be announced.  I am a senior citizen
and have heard it used the same way by many old time European baale
t'fila, talmedei chachamim who were "m'dakdek" in their t'filos.
Mr. Rosenberg will be interested to know that I have in my library the
siddur "Bais Rachel" printed in Warsaw in 1874 containing commentaries,
dinim, instructions, etc by a number of G'dolim.  This Siddur has the
word "haba-im" in parenthses, following " haba", to be used on the
appropiate occasions.  

Boruch Merzel

From: <BDCOHEN613@...> (David I. Cohen)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:21:41 EST
Subject: Singular vs Plural in Birchat HaChodesh

The text of the declaration of the days upon which Rosh Chodesh will
fall properly uses the singular, "haba" because it is a reference to
Rosh Chodesh which is a single entity no matter how many days it
consists of. We are asking that Rosh Chodesh and by extension the new
month itself "come for good".
	On the same topic, does anyone know why, when Rosh Chodesh is
two weekdays, we announce the two days with a simple conjuctive, "on
Monday and on Tuesday", for example, while when one of the two days of
Rosh Chodesh is on Shabbat we add the word "oomachrato" ?

From: Sheldon Meth <SHELDON.Z.METH@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:33:16 -0500
Subject: RE: Singular vs Plural in Birchat HaChodesh

	Aside from deviating from "matbe'ah shetav'u bo Chachamim" [the
coin which the Sages minted - i.e., the prohibition of altering the text
of prayer], and the problem of "lo pelug" [not making a distinction], I
believe it is grammatically incorrect to say ha ba'im.  The phrase
refers to Rosh Chodesh as an entity, not to the day, or days of Rosh
Chodesh.  The days will come, whether we refer to them or not, but WE
are in control, as it were, of when Rosh Chodesh will come, and that is
what we hope will come upon us in peace.

From: Mitchell P. Laks <mlaks@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:56:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Singular vs Plural in Birchat HaChodesh 

The rule as I remember it is:

That you say haba aleinu almost always - the thing that is coming is the
new chodesh _not_ the days of rosh chodesh -

the only exception is for rosh chodesh ellul for which we do say haboim
- because there is no separate birchat hachodsh for tishre - (as we
fulfill hacesseh liyom chageinu - the holiday of R'H is hidden and so is
its rosh chodesh..) so we bless both ellul and tishre together

Another other point that I heard from one of the old timer's in my shul,
Mr. Fuchs A"H, a brilliant baal koreh with a sweet nusach for the yomim
noraim davening.

He used to say that we only use the expression 'umacharaso' when
benching rosh chodesh for shabbos, but not for say tues and
wednesday. he didnt know why, and i havent seen this anywhere. has
anyone heard this?

meshulum laks


From: Hillel Markowitz <hillelm@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 22:52:25 -0500
Subject: Re: The time of the Molad

> From: Lee M. Spetner <lspetner@...>
> Alexander Heppenheimer wrote regarding the announcement of the Molad. He
> wrote:
> >... for new references check out the
> >TorahTidbits mailing list sent out by Phil Chernofsky of the NCSY in
> >Jerusalem ...  This shabbos he stated that the molad will be at
> >8:23 AM Yeruashalayim Solar time which would be 8:03 AM Israel Standard
> >Time (on the clock - which is 1:03 AM Eastern Standard Time).
> What appeared in the Torah Tidbits is incorrect. Mean Solar noon is not
> always at 12:00 noon in Cairo. To convert the Molad time to standard
> time correctly, one must subtract the difference between 12:00 and the
> time of Chatzos in Jerusalem in standard time. The latter can be found
> by taking the midpoint between sunrise and sunset in Jerusalem for the
> day on which the Molad occurs. One can see that this difference is not a
> constant 20 minutes as the Torah Tidbits erroneously states.

I was the one who mentioned Torah Tidbits and I was imprecise in what I
wrote.  I wish to ask mechilah from everyone for my mistake.  The Torah
Tidbits did not state that it is a constant twenty minute difference.
Each month they give the molad and the equivalent clock time.  I have
seen in past months that it is not always 20 minutes.  This is one
reason that I said that I announce that the clock time is
"approximately" hh:mm EST in shul.  May we be zocheh to soon be in the
situation in which we will need to hear the exact time so that we can go
to Yerushalayim to give aidus.

From: <Alexander_Heppenheimer@...> (Alexander Heppenheimer)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:10:24 -0500
Subject: Re: The time of the Molad

Lee M. Spetner wrote:
>Mean Solar noon is not
>always at 12:00 noon in Cairo. To convert the Molad time to standard
>time correctly, one must subtract the difference between 12:00 and the
>time of Chatzos in Jerusalem in standard time. The latter can be found
>by taking the midpoint between sunrise and sunset in Jerusalem for the
>day on which the Molad occurs. One can see that this difference is not a
>constant 20 minutes as the Torah Tidbits erroneously states.

(There must have been some mixup in the part of the thread Lee quoted,
since the quotation from Torah Tidbits was posted by someone else, not me.)

Molados have nothing to do with the actual time of sunrise/sunset on a
given day; the "day" for the purposes of molad calculations begins from
a fixed zero point, 6 PM of the previous day, summer and winter
alike. So even though it's true that chatzos may vary by about 15-20
minutes on either side of a mean 12:00, this is neither here nor there
for this discussion. What's important is the time at which the sun
crosses the local meridian, which is a fixed time from day to day
throughout the year, and will show up on a clock at a fixed time that
depends only on the longitudinal distance of the place from the meridian
that sets its time zone. (Incidentally, R' Moshe Feinstein zt"l holds
that this time, rather than the seasonally-varying one depending on
sunrise and sunset, is the true chatzos for *all* purposes of halachah.)

In other words, chatzos as defined by most posekim (and in Lee's
posting) is an arbitrary mathematical division of the day; while R'
Moshe's chatzos - which is the one that is used for molad calculations -
has a clearly visible basis, namely that the sun is at the highest point
in the sky that it will reach that day, and is at precise north (or
south, for folks Down Under).

Kol tuv y'all,


End of Volume 28 Issue 34