Volume 28 Number 54
                 Produced: Sun Feb 21  0:08:12 US/Eastern 1999

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Custom of Zeh El Zeh
         [Yisrael Medad]
Girls in the men's section
         [Marsha Rapp]
Girls in the Men's section: A clarification
         [Chaim Shapiro]
Humash with modern Hebrew translation?
         [Sarah & Eliyahu Shiffman]
Kashering Plastic (5)
         [Sarah & Eliyahu Shiffman, Susan Shapiro, Shmuel Himelstein,
Bill Bernstein, Yossie Abramson]
Learning to read Hebrew
         [Eliot Shimoff]
Names (4)
         [Meth, Sheldon Z., Bill Bernstein, Janice Gelb, Yisrael Medad]
Teaching Hebrew (synopsis of replies)
         [Louise Miller]


From: Yisrael Medad <isrmedia@...>
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:53:15 +0200
Subject: Custom of Zeh El Zeh

Regarding the custom of bowing in Kedusha at "zeh el zeh", I received
this from a fellow Shilonian, I pass it along:

>check the Yabeah Omer by Rav Ovadyah Yosef he goes into the
>topic in quite some detail. I don't remmber if he gives the reason or not.
>But if you will look in the Bait Yosef 125 the section that starts
>v'nohagim you will find your source. Concerning not doing what you 
>don't know why, not knowing is never a reason for not doing(source for 
>this reasoning see Shemot 19,8 & 24,7)
>Shimon Siegel

Yisrael Medad


From: Marsha Rapp <marsha@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:01:02 +0200
Subject: Re: Girls in the men's section

I know that when my eldest daughter was learning how to read in school,
my husband asked our Rav when it would be unacceptable for her to sit
with him in the men's section of shul. His answer was until she was 6 or
7. Yes, it's hard since I rarely get to shul on Shabbat - now I can
since my little one is now 4 and goes with his dad, but she would go and
try to sit on her own, or my husband would go to a small minyan where
they would put up a mehitza for her next to him.

 Marsha Rapp
Kiryat Arba Israel


From: Chaim Shapiro <Dagoobster@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:37:18 EST
Subject: Girls in the Men's section: A clarification

	In order to clarify my question regarding girls being zoche to
sit in the men's section, I add the following.  I never meant to say or
imply in any way that the davening done on the men's side is in any way
better, or more important than the women's davening.  My question was
one of chinuch.  Similar to not allowing a child to use a lemon instead
of a real esrog, is allowing a girl to sit with her father teaching her
the wrong thing?  What happens when she reaches the age, whatever age
that my be, at which time she is no longer allowed to sit wih her
father.  What will she think?  I am afraid that SHE might just think,
gosh I am a real woman now, therefore I can not do what I was allowed to
do before.  Given the strong feminist undercurrents in our society, that
may often be interpreted by the GIRL as be relegated to a lesser status
because of her sex.
	Assuming that may be the case, maybe girls should be taught the
importance of women's davening on their side?  How beautiful the role of
the Jewish woman is, never allowing for American society to corrupt
their minds with feminist nonsense (or the young boys who see the same
process).  Sorry for the misunderstanding.  



From: Sarah & Eliyahu Shiffman <sarash1@...>
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:21:59 +0200
Subject: Humash with modern Hebrew translation?

Does anyone know of a humash or set of humashim with a translation of the
text into modern Hebrew, along with commentaries, both modern and

Eliyahu Shiffman
Beit Shemesh


From: Sarah & Eliyahu Shiffman <sarash1@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:48:01 +0200
Subject: Re: Kashering Plastic

>In Israel, I have heard many normative positions that allow you to
>kasher a dishwasher by boiling and buying new racks - yet here its a
>major disagreement and most don't allow for it. Is plastic somehow
>different in the US from Israel?

Plastic probably is the same in Israel and the US, but dishwashers aren't.
Most Israeli dishwashers are lined with (kasherable) stainless steel,
whereas most US dishwashers are lined with (non-kasherable) enamel.

Eliyahu Shiffman
Beit Shemesh

From: Susan Shapiro <SShap23859@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:46:13 EST
Subject: Kashering Plastic

We have a rav who will sometimes say kashering plastic, like Tupperware,
is o.k. when someone is kashering their house. The reason for this is
that it is expensive, and there is an inyun of doing things according to
your means, and if it is a big loss to you, you can do it.

What he says is, dip it in boiling water, if it survives, it's fine, if
not, then not.

But, from what I understand, it is extremely important to ask YOUR Rav,
because each Rav will pasken each particularly situation according to
the situation.

Susan, S. Diego, CA

From: Shmuel Himelstein <shmuelh@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:53:58 +0200
Subject: Kashering Plastic

The Israeli army uses plastic (probably similar to Melmac) dishes
throughout the year. A few days before Pesach, all the members of the
chaplaincy are summoned for a reserve duty day, in order to Kasher the
kitchens. This includes all the plastic plates, which are kashered by
dipping in boiling hot water.

Shmuel Himelstein

From: Bill Bernstein <bbernst@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:55:26 -0600
Subject: Re: Kashering Plastic

I heard a shiur over the Internet from Rav Gershon Bess of LA where he
mentions this subject.  He says that plastic has changed a lot over the
years (this was confirmed by a friend of mine in materials).  A hard
plastic, that can't be ruined by boiling water can be ksahered in
boiling water, assuming that was its use.  This holds even for Pesach.
Now, that was what I heard on this shiur.  typical disclaimers apply.

From: Yossie Abramson <yossie@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:24:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Kashering Plastic

David Brodsky wrote concerning plastic and kashering. My friend from
yeshiva, after finishing a bottle of soda that he wished to use as a
water bottle would kasher it. I asked him why, and he replied that it's
a Yeki minhag.
Regional or not?

Yossie Abramson


From: Eliot Shimoff <shimoff@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:07:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: re: Learning to read Hebrew

Here is an interesting twist discovered by my daughter, a special
education teacher trying to teach a Downs Syndrome 6-year old girl to
read Hebrew.  The girl could already read English, but was having a
difficult time with the Hebrew.  My daughter knew that people with Downs
Syndrome have problems with control of eye movements.  She guessed that
her student's difficulty was with the vertical eye movements required to
shift from the letter to the vowel beneath the letter.  So my daughter
prepared material with the vowel _on the line_ ... and the girl quickly
managed to read pretty well.  Once reading was well-established, it
became possible to move the vowels to their "normal" position beneath
the line.

Eliot Shimoff                          <shimoff@...> 
UMBC Dept. of Psychology               410 455-2973 (lab)
1000 Hilltop Circle                    410 455-2567 (dept. office)
Baltimore, MD 21250                    410 455-1055 (fax)         


From: Meth, Sheldon Z. <SHELDON.Z.METH@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:35:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Names

Ginessah - I heard (in MJ?) that it is a rearrangement of Nun Gimmel Heh
Shin (Samach -> Sin -> Shin), the well known Nes Gadol Haya Shom of
Chanukah.  Girls born on Chanukah had the name Ginessah added.

From: Bill Bernstein <bbernst@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:59:49 -0600
Subject: Re: Names

Some of the female names I have seen mentioned do not have AFAIK a
Hebrew source.  Thus, Mindel=almond, Hindel (my wife's name)=chicken,
Taube=pigeon.  I think they are probably more attractive in the original

From: Janice Gelb <janice.gelb@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:31:40 -0800
Subject: Names

Stuart Wise <swise@...> wrote:
> 3) I heard Hudus is from Yehudis; Hadas is from Hadassah

Hudus is also from Hadassah. It is my given name and I was told when I
started Hebrew school that it should be Yehudit. However, when I got
married and we went to get the marriage confirmed at the bet din in
Petach Tikva, one of the dayanim brought in an old, handwritten,
hand-bound book and looked the name up. He said Hudus was a variant of

Janice Gelb                  | The only connection Sun has with 
<janice.gelb@...>      | this message is the return address.

From: Yisrael Medad <isrmedia@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:09:50 +0200
Subject: Names

 Our son is named Aviyah Ganiel.
 Aviyah was the son of Shmuel (we live in Shiloh) and Ganiel was
something I made up after my wife's grandmother who we knew as Genella.
Since we never knew what her name meant, we did out best to memorialize
 Several years later, someone suggested that it was a form of Chana
since in Russia, the H become G (Herzl is pronounced Gertzel, for
example).  So Chana, or Chanela became Genella, perhaps.
 Which leads me to my point: when you stick to Hebrew names, there's no
problem.  Fooling around with anything else, especially Yiddish, is
simply getting into diminutives, mispronounciations, corruptions,
nicknames, etc., etc.  Yisrael Medad


From: Louise Miller <daniel@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:35:40 -0800
Subject: Teaching Hebrew (synopsis of replies)

I received many very nice responses to my question about why my 5 year
old son is being taught all his letters before he attempts any vowels.
(This being much different than the way I was taught, and different that
the popular NJOP adult program.)

Everyone who replied told me that this is how it's being done now, and
that especially in Israeli schools where the kids are native Hebrew
speakers, whole language word recognition was used in kindergarten.
Vowels will come in first grade I was told, but I was also warned to
practice tfila reading with my kids, despite the teacher's fear that
vowels so soon will confuse them.

The most interesting reply came from someone at my son's school.  She
pointed out that the Lubavicher Rebbe wanted children to learn letters
first because of the inherent holiness of the alef-bais, and indeed his
class recites the alef-bais with vowels as the first part of their
tfila.  The first page of the Tehillas HaShem (Chabad) siddur has an
alef-bais table, and I noticed that the new Artscroll kids' siddur does
as well.

(If I've misinterpreted you, S.S., my humblest apologies.)

Thanks everyone!

Louise Miller
La Jolla, CA
aka "Ymmom s'leinaD ehsoM"


End of Volume 28 Issue 54