Volume 29 Number 01
                 Produced: Tue Jul 13  6:44:28 US/Eastern 1999

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Bein yehudi u nochri, agunos and mamzerim
         [Paul Jayson]
Blood in Wine
         [Yisrael Medad]
Business Meetings in Non-Kosher Restaurants
Coming Late to Shul
         [Akiva Miller]
Comments about payos
         [Aviva Fee]
Comparing Forced donations in MiShebayrach with Forced Engagement
         [Russell Hendel]
Direction of Prayer at the Kotel
         [Yrachmiel Tilles]
Megillat Esther and Shir haShirim
         [Scott D. Spiegler]
Old Wine in Tamuz
         [Bob Werman]
Pronunciation of Yisachar
         [Aharon Fischman]
Shape of Luchot
         [Zev Sero]
         [Ruth Tenenholtz]
Urine and Medicine (2)
         [Sheldon Meth, Michael Pitkowsky]
Yom Tov sheni
         [Meir Shinnar]


From: Paul Jayson <P.Jayson@...>
Subject: Bein yehudi u nochri, agunos and mamzerim

I am looking for articles/forums on Bein yehudi u nochri, agunos and

kol tov


From: Yisrael Medad <isrmedia@...>
Subject: Blood in Wine

There was a discussion a while back on Wines and Kashrut.
I thought the following might be relevant.  It's from the CNN website:
French wine seized for oxblood checks  June 24, 1999
Web posted at: 2:33 p.m. EDT (1833 GMT)
PARIS (Reuters) -- French health inspectors have seized 66,000 liters of
Rhone Valley wine that may have been treated with oxblood powder, banned in
the European Union since the 1997 mad cow disease scare, officials said
Gerard Bedos, head of the state regional consumer watchdog in Marseille,
said inspectors seized the wine and 220 kilograms (480 pounds) of powdered
oxblood in the region around Avignon earlier this month. 
Bedos told the newspaper France-Soir the wine was being tested to determine
whether it had been treated with oxblood. 
Dried oxblood was used routinely to purify wine until the EU banned it two
years ago in a health scare over the cattle disease BSE, which scientists
found might be linked to a human brain-wasting disorder. 


From: Anonymous
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:01:45 -0400
Subject: Business Meetings in Non-Kosher Restaurants

I started a new job recently, and twice in the past two days a group
from work has gone to a non-kosher restaurant for business purposes. I
wear a yarmulka while I'm working, and I certainly haven't been
comfortable wearing it in a non-kosher establishment, but I also don't
want to confuse my co-workers by removing it in order to enter a
restaurant either. Has anyone else faced this situation? What have you

In addition, is there anything that I'm permitted to order in this type
of a place, such as a can of soda? How about the ice water that these
places always serve?

FYI, I work in New York City.


From: Akiva Miller <kgmiller@...>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:38:11 -0400 
Subject: Re: Coming Late to Shul

In MJ 28:100, Jeff Fischer suggested that <<< it was very dangerous for
the latecomers to walk home from shul alone, so they made it that the
latecomers can catch up to everyone in shul and walk home together with
everyone else.  That is one reason why some shuls do not say Baruch
Hashem on Motza'ay Shabbos and Yom Tov. >>>

Are you suggesting that this danger exists on Sunday night through
Friday night, but not on Saturday night? Why would that be? If it is
because they came to shul for Shabbos Mincha, and therefore no one was
late for Maariv, wouldn't that logic also apply to Friday night? (or
even to the whole week?)  Even if people were late for Mincha on Erev
Shabbos, they'd still be on time for Maariv, so why say Magen Avos?

Akiva Miller


From: Aviva Fee <aviva613@...>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 06:05:07 PDT
Subject: Comments about payos

In my travels throughout various US Orthodox (Orthodox in my contexts
refers to what many call "yeshivish") communities, I have found a what I
feel is a unique, albeit curious situation.

There are many boys that have payos (sidelocks), when their fathers do
not.  My conversations with these fathers has revealed the following
answers to why their son's have payos and the fathers not (in no
particular order):

- It looks cute on them
- It makes them feel more religious
- The other boys have it and I do not want him to stand out
- No one will mistake him for a gentile
- My grandparents and/or great-grandparents had them in Europe.

It is my own personal opinion that irrespective of the reason above,
when a father does not have payos and their son does, there is a subtle
message that:

- The son is an object that the parents wants to look cute
- What the father does is in contrast to what the son does
- Mesora  (tradition) is meaningless

What I am getting at is that while payos make seem cute and innocuous,
they have the potential to cause serious, subtle damage to the long-term
religiosity of the child due to the inherent contradiction between
themselves and their father.

Any comments?



From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 15:55:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Comparing Forced donations in MiShebayrach with Forced Engagement

With regard to the issue of forced donations thru MiShebayrachs (v28n90)
the following analogous cases--(attempted) forced kiddushim in sales
is relevant. The bottom line: A person is only monetarily obligated to
what they freely agree to:

>Rambam: Ishuth 4:5
>If he was selling fruits and a woman came and said "Give me some
>of these" and he responded "I will give you some and you will be
>engaged to me (MKDSHTH) thereby": Then
>a) If she said "OK"--then she accepts his offer and is engaged. But
>b) If she said "(Just) Give me them" or "Weigh me some" or any
>other language whose content indicates that she only wants fruit
>then she is not engaged.

>>Ishuth 5:12
>>If he repaid her a loan and said "You are engaged to me by this" and
>>she accepted the repayment (and there was no prior conversation on
>>marriage) then she is not engaged.

Russell Jay Hendel; Phd,ASA, <rhendel@...>
Moderator Rashi Is Simple; http://www.shamash.org/rashi/


From: Yrachmiel Tilles <seminars@...>
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:39:13 +0300
Subject: Re: Direction of Prayer at the Kotel

>From: Akiva Miller <kgmiller@...>
>...In actual practice, people at the Kotel do NOT face the Kodesh
>Hakadashim.  [Or, more accurately, I have not noticed anyone facing the
>place where *he* holds the Kodesh Hakadashim to have been.] Rather, as
>the gemara instructs, they face straight ahead, towards the Beis

Sure there are. In any large group if you screen out the tourists and focus
on the regulars, you will (nearly) always see a few angling north. *PERHAPS*
they feel they fit in the category of "One who stands in (at?) the Beis
Hamikdash should direct his heart toward the Kodesh Hakadashim".

Yrachmiel Tilles
http://www.ascent.org.il (woth checking out)


From: Scott D. Spiegler <ah222@...>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:13:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Megillat Esther and Shir haShirim

I wanted clarification on a point about Megillat Esther. I heard on a
secular radio program that Shir haShirim was the only sefer in Tanach
that does not mention G-d's name. I was under the impression that it was
about Megiallat Esther that this was true and no other sefer.

So, I contacted the program producer and rasied this question to
her. She said that it was a mistake on the part of the program to
exclude the Megillat Esther from this list (that went uncaught at
broadcast time), but that according to their research- this was also
true of Shir haShirim.

I thought about this issue and looked at that sefer and, indeed, could
not find a reference to G-d there. This made sense to me, because of the
poetic/ metaphoric style of this writing, but it is in contradiction to
what I thought was true about Megillat Esther as being the only sefer in
which G-d's name is not mentioned.

Did I misunderstand this issue or is there another explanation about why
G-d's name seems to be omitted from Shir haShirim?

Thanks, Scott


From: Bob Werman <RWERMAN@...>
Date: Sun,  11 Jul 1999 15:41 +0200
Subject: Old Wine in Tamuz

Ba'al haTurim mentions [Orah Haim 169] that old wine in Tamuz [yayin
yashan b'tkufat tamuz] is -- together with fatty meat-- excused from the
rule that all food must be given immediately to the waiter.

Does anyone know what the reference to is?  I think it might be related
to the yayin tamim of Shevu'ot [in parashat Pinhas], already replaced by
new wine after Pesah.

Neither the mehaber or any of the parshanim seem to follow up on this.


__Bob Werman


From: Aharon Fischman <afischman@...>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 07:24:45 -0400 
Subject: RE: Pronunciation of Yisachar

Yehuda Poch Writes: 
>I would be interested to see how many shuls have the minhag quoted in the
>Baal Haturim and what other minhagim are used.

My bar mitzvah parsha was Vayetzie, and it contains the first time
Yisachar is mentioned in the Torah. I had heard that there was a minhag
to say "Yisascahr" the first time the name was mentioned, and "Yisachar"
any time after.  I asked the Rabbi where I lived (Rav PM Teitz ZT"L)
what to do, and he said to say "Yisachar" throughout.

Aharon Fischman


From: Zev Sero <zsero@...>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:44:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Shape of Luchot

Alexander Heppenheimer <Alexander.Heppenheimer@...> wrote:
> One source is the Gemara (Bava Basra 14a) to which R' Teitz
> referred. The Gemara discusses there in great detail how the luchos and
> several other objects fitted into the aron (Ark), accounting for
> literally every cubic inch of space. 

But it doesn't.  It only accounts for the floorspace of the aron, not
for the volume.  This is clear from the fact that one of the things that
the gemara allots space for is the sefer torah, which was certainly not
square!  In fact, IIRC the gemara explicitly allows extra space for the
sefer torah's round shape, and for it to be taken out and put back.


From: Ruth Tenenholtz <ruthaifa@...>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:07:15 +0300
Subject: Re: Tevila

 How can TeVilat Nashim not be a mitzva if you SAY- BARUCH ATA....
*VETSIVANU* AL *MITZVAT* TEVILA? Is hadlakat nerot a mitzva? Is
hafrashat hala a mitzva? These are the three mitzvat for women and they
are central to the kiym of the Jewish people.
 It is Tevila that has kept us as a group. It is Shabbath that has kept
us as a group. it is kashruth that has kept us as a group.  Taharat
Hamishpaha is living the natural way- according to a biological
nature. The nature of the woman so that both man and woman observe and
protect and respect the woman's body and allow her unique biology to be
central to their lives together.
 The Mikveh is nature too- an embodiment of life- a womb like experience
if you like and a rebirth. It is no accident that the goyim, lehavdil-
adopted this method of water as their own road toward rebirth as it
were.  shabbath shalom


From: Sheldon Meth <SHELDON.Z.METH@...>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:03:59 -0400 
Subject: RE: Urine and Medicine

	Rachamim Pauli writes:  "Recently, I saw a homopathic doctor using
> the Talmudic cure of two drops of Urine diluted in seven cups for AIDS
> Patients. I believe the said cure (general cure) is covered in
> Berachot. Does anybody have the Bar Ilan disc that can look up the
> Gemara source(s) for me"

	I have heard that we do NOT use Talmudic medical recipes or
lechashos [incantations] today because: (1) we are not precisely
familiar with the ingredients, the quantities, the preparation, nor the
administrations; and (2) human physiology has changed sufficiently in
nearly two millenia so as to make these cures, even if we could prepare
and administer them properly, ineffective, if not harmful.

	I have also heard that there are two exceptions, one of which I
forgot, and the other the famous pigeon-on-the-navel cure (for

From: Michael Pitkowsky <pitab@...>
Date: Fri,  9 Jul 99 15:57:42 PDT
Subject: Urine and Medicine

The only source that I could find which spoke about the medicinal
qualities of ingesting urine was from Shabbat 109b. Julius Preuss in his
_Biblical and Talmudic Medicine_ calls this part of "filth pharmacy"
which he claims was quite common among the Greeks and Romans but not
among the Orientals (sic)[pg. 436]. The source in Shabbat talks about 40
day-old urine taken as 1/32 of a log(log=1.38 liters according to Rav
Naeh and 2.4 liters according to the Hazon Ish) as being helpful for a
wasp sting and a quarter of that helpful for a scorpion bite.

Name: Michael Menahem Pitkowsky
E-mail: <pitab@...>


From: Meir Shinnar <meir_shinnar@...>
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 99 08:36:54 -0500
Subject: Yom Tov sheni

Zvi Weiss wrote
> The problem that I see with this approach is that it appears to
>contradict the Gemara.  The gemara states that the reason to "hold on
>to" Minhag Avoteinu is that there is a fear that something will happen
>which will cause the Diaspora to be unable to properly calculate the
>Mo'adim.  Also, are there ANY Rishonim who (even as an auxiliary reason)
>cite the "need" to make Israel "different". ?

This is, I believe, Rav Saadia Gaon's shitta.  Rav Saadia held that the
calculated calendar was always known, and that lands outside Israel kept
two days for respect for kedushat Eretz Israel.  See the Torah shlema (I
think volume 13) who has a whole volume on the calendar, and an extended
discussion of Rav Saadia Gaon's shitta.


End of Volume 29 Issue 1