Volume 29 Number 33
                 Produced: Mon Aug  2  6:02:01 US/Eastern 1999

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Carl and Adina Sherer]
Different Meanings of the Word "o"
         [David Jutkowitz]
Digital Chumash with Trop
         [Ezriel Krumbein]
Does the molad ever occur after Rosh Chodesh?
         [Jonathan Grodzinski]
Electronic sensors
         [David I. Cohen]
Explaining Yesh Mei'Ayin to a 6 year old
         [Steve Pudell]
Is there a prohibition against obesity?
         [Aviva Fee]
Kosher Baby Diets
         [Leah S. Gordon]
M'ol and mul
         [Mechy Frankel]
Orthodox Black Jews
         [Linda Franco]
Rav, Rabbie
         [Alexander Heppenheimer]
Vihi Noam on Saturday Nite
         [Ira L. Jacobson]


From: Carl and Adina Sherer <sherer@...>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 21:31:18 +0300
Subject: Announcement

With deep praise and gratitude to HaKadosh Baruch Hu (the Holy One
Blessed is He) for all of the goodness he has brought us (in this and
other matters), Adina and I are thrilled to announce the birth of our
new son, on Friday night the 18th day of the Jewish month of Av (our
eighteenth wedding anniversary). The Shalom Zachor (festival on the
birth of a new male child) will take place IY"H (G-d willing) in our
home in Ramat Shlomo, Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) on Friday night, the
Sabbath of the Torah portion of Re'eh, the 25th day of the Jewish month
of Av after 10:15 P.M.

Carland Adina

IY"H, I will bring my son into the covenant of our Father Abraham of
Blessed Memory Beshaa Tova u"Mutzlachas (in a good and successful hour)
on Sabbath morning of the Torah portion of Re'eh, the 25th day of the
Jewish month of Av. Time and place to be announced later in the week.


P.S. If anyone within WALKING DISTANCE ONLY needs
directions, please send email with "Directions" in the subject line.

Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for our son,
Baruch Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.
Thank you very much.

Carl and Adina Sherer


From: David Jutkowitz <etzdavid@...>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 21:38:19 +0200
Subject: Different Meanings of the Word "o"

1. Does any one know of any differnt meanings of the hebrew word "o" (as
"or")? There is one other meaning of the word that I know of which is
"im" (as "if"). Rashi mentiones this fact in his Perush (Vaikra 4:23)

2. The word "o" (as or) is always used in the Torah in this way:
something o something. is their any case of "o something o something",
as we say either that or that? (see: Vaikra 5:1)

Yacov Jutkowitz


From: Ezriel Krumbein <ezsurf@...>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 23:21:14 -0700
Subject: Digital Chumash with Trop

> From: Louise Miller <daniel@...>
> Do you have (or know about) a full-text Chumash that is:
> 1. machine readable (the user wants to cut and paste into Word)
> 2. *Includes trop* - (that's the tricky part)
> 3. In Hebrew (don't laugh- I've found lots of Chumashim
>    that fit the criteria but are in English!).

" The Holy Scriptures " from Davka Corp. has the Trop and is searchable.
I think it comes with the additional fonts you will need to use it in
Word.  When I did the cut and paste I had to set the font to Sefer Trop
after I pasted the section.  It first shows up in an uninteligible form
because of the font assumed in Word.

Kol Tov 


From: Jonathan Grodzinski <JGrodz@...>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 04:52:03 EDT
Subject: Does the molad ever occur after Rosh Chodesh?

There is to be a total eclipse of the sun on Wednesday 11th August in
England during the morning and it will pass through France Luxembourg,
The Balkans, Turkey, Iran etc

Now, I understand that a solar eclipse can only occur at a New Moon, and
a lunar eclipse at a Full Moon. So one starts to think how this does or
does not connect with the molad, and what indeed is the molad?

At the time of the fixing of Rosh Chodesh "al pi haReiyah" by sighting
the new moon, Rosh Chodesh could only occur after the Molad (being the
instant that the New Moon appeared - or was it the instant before when
there was no moon visile at all?)

Now we have a fixed calendar. We say that the original molad in Creation
(Molad Tohu) was on a Monday, 5 hours and 204 chalakim.

In recording the time for the molad, the classic definition starts the
day at 6.00 pm Jerusalem time (that is not the time that we currently
use in Jerusalem which I believe is Cairo time, but the "true" time
based on the day at the equinoxes being 12 hours from 6.00 am to 6.00

The hour is divided into 1080 chalakim (thus 18 chalakim = 1 minute ).

So Molad Tohu was Monady 11:11:20  pm 

Each molad is 29 days 12 hours and 793 chalakim after the previous one. 

In all the books I have read, this is called an "average" lunation. I
believe that it was calculated by dividing the elapsed time between two
eclipses by the number of elapsed months, but that each lunation is not
actually the same as another (Is this correct?)

The only month whose start is now (under the fixed calendar method)
determined by the calculated molad, is that of Tishrei. Rosh Hashanah
will be on the day of the molad unless the molad is after 18 hours
(noon) - called "molad yashan", is on (or by reason of a molad yashan
has been postponed to) a Sunday Wednesday or Friday, or two other
postponements which would give an impossible year length.

In a standard year Tishrei has 30 days , Cheshvan 29, Kislev 30 and so
on.  total 6*(29+30) =354 Some years Cheshvan has 29, and Kislev 29
total days 343 Some years Cheshvan has 30, and Kislev 30 total days 345

In a leap year, Adar Rishon is the extra month and has 30 days, so the leap 
years can be 383, 384 or 385 days long.

No months other than Tishrei are connected to the Molad, and the the
lengths of Cheshvan and Kislev are determined by calculating the day of
the week of Rosh Hashanah in years A and B, and seeing how many days are
in between.

Can any molad occur after Rosh Chodesh?

My guess is that if Molad Tishrei is very late (but before 18 hours) on
a Monday, Tuesday Thursday or Friday, and both Cheshvan and Kislev are
29 days, then molad Tevet will be the earliest that a molad can be in
relation to Rosh Chodesh.

If I am correct, can anyone give an example of molad Tevet or any other
Molad occuring after Rosh Chodesh??

If as a result of a little learning (which, as the saying goes, is
probably worse than none) I am incorrect in my statemants I would
appreciate correction.

Jonathan Grodzinski
London UK


From: David I. Cohen <BDCOHEN613@...>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:16:43 EDT
Subject: Electronic sensors

    Akiva Miller asks about going through an electric sensor at the
library on Shabbat.
    Although I would not venture any halchic opinion, in his analysis,
he claims that changing the constant current by walking through might be
a case of "pesik raysha".
    But wouldn't it be a case of "pesik raysha d'lo nicha lay" since
walking through the sensor is of absolutely no benefit?
    I've thought of this whne walking down the street on a sunny Shabbat
morning and a neigbors outside light is automatically triggered as I
walk by. Do I have to cross the street? Does it make a difference if
it's at night?
    Shabbat Shalom
    David I. Cohen


From: Steve Pudell <Gmachine9@...>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:25:19 EDT
Subject: Explaining Yesh Mei'Ayin to a 6 year old

This may seem as an easy question but my six year old daughter asked me
"who created Hashem."  To wish I tried to answer that no one created
Hashem.  To which she answered, and i quote, "what do you mean, just
poof?"  Now, I beleive that she touched on a few issues including the
"impossibility" of yesh me'ayin and the "timelessness" (ie. bl'i
reisheis, bli tachlis).  Nonetheless, how do you BEGIN to explain this
to six year old.

Steve Pudell


From: Aviva Fee <aviva613@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:09:20 PDT
Subject: Is there a prohibition against obesity?

While the issue of smoking an halacha has generated significant amounts
of debate, has anyone read or know of a reference that states there is a
halachic prohibition against obesity?

The same doctors and Rabbi's that propose that smoking is dangerous
should also accede that obesity poses significant health risks.



From: Leah S. Gordon <lsgordon@...>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:14:19 -0700
Subject: Kosher Baby Diets

We have covered our high-chair trays for Pesach, and treat them as
counters the rest of the year--don't put anything yad-soledet-bo hot or
chareef on them (I doubt people would do that anyway since it could burn
the baby).  And clean them really well between milk and meat.  But

To echo the writing of Carl Sherer and Ruth Tenenholtz, the best way to
avoid the milk/meat problem for babies is to avoid all formulas and
breastfeed instead, for as long as possible (the WHO recommends at least
2 years).  A baby shouldn't "need" any non-human dairy (or, for that
matter, any meat) for a good long time if s/he is getting a balanced
diet that includes breastmilk.  By 2 or 3 years old, the baby starts to
understand 'not yet' at least somewhat.

I have never heard of a case in which a child would medically "need" any
kind of formula [instead of breastmilk], so this would be a universal
solution.  (I suppose if the mother is HIV-positive, or has had a large
breast reduction surgery, then that would be the only reason.)

--Leah S. Gordon


From: Mechy Frankel <Michael.Frankel@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:03:12 -0400
Subject: M'ol and mul

Catching up on back issues i didn't notice that anyone had responded to
Rabbi Bechoffer inquired on this list about the shift in the usual form
of "mul" to "mol" in the very beginning of sefer divorim. i am aware of
two approaches to this issue. Which one you might prefer probably also
correlates with other things. (For those on the avodah list where i
inadvertenly first sent this response, just consider it deja vu all over

1. There is a midrashic (tanchumoh) exegesis, quoted by the maharam,
which deals with this - connecting the use of m'ol here with the act of
miloh, precisely as in the usage of m'ol"ing" the binei yisroel with the
charvos tzurim. the midrosh would then have yisroel meriting a qiriyas
hayom because of the merit of mitzvas miloh.
 2. The shift from mul to m'ol is caused by hebrew's tendency to
"dissimulate' similar sounding vowels too close together.  Thus the
shift here is actually caused by the proximity of following word
"suf". This vowel shift "rule", originally cited in Gesenius's classical
hebrew grammar, section 29w, was offered as an explanation for m'ol in
divorim 1:1 by M.  Weinsomething of the hebrew u.- (though Gesenius only
offers examples of vowel shifts because of proximity within a single

Mechy Frankel				W: (703) 325-1277
<michael.frankel@...>		H: (301) 593-3949	


From: Linda Franco <Fauveism@...>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:44:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Orthodox Black Jews

There is a Black woman who runs a e mail group for dealing with Judaism
and race issues.
Also, I had heard that there is a community in Crown heights.
Here in Brooklyn, we also have the Temanim, etc...etc...
It all depends on what a person consders themselves...



From: Alexander Heppenheimer <Alexander.Heppenheimer@...>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:44:41 -0600
Subject: RE: Rav, Rabbie

Mechy Frankel writes:

>There are other opinions (e.g. Tashbetz, R. Eliyohu Bochur) that
>have the final yud as part of the shoresh, i.e that "rabbie" is entirely a
>title, and there is no "my" indicated by its' spelling. a clear motivation
>for this take is the perceived problem that "my master" is a more bounded,
>i.e. less important, domain than plain "master" (he may also be master for
>others besides oneself) which would fly in the face of the more common
>interpretation of the title ranking maimra - first recorded by R. Sherira
>Gaon - that "godole mi'rav rabbie godole mi'rabbie rabbon godole mi'rabbon
>shi'mo" (trans: rabbie is greater than rav, rabbon is greater than rabbie,
>greater than rabbie is his (untitled) name) which accords a greater status
>to the title of rabbie.

But one could argue the reverse: "Rav," meaning plain "master," is less
important, because it implies "somebody's master, but not mine";
"rabbie" is more important, since it means "not just any master, but my
own"; and "rabban" would be still more important, because it would mean
"master of all of us."

[There is a Chassidic story involving R' Shlomo of Karlin and a chassid
of R' Shneur Zalman of Liadi, the upshot of which is that R' Shlomo
attempted to convince the chassid to become one of his students and
leave R' Shneur Zalman, to which the chassid replied with a Russian
folk-saying, "Pan to pan, no nye moi" - "The lord's a lord, but he's not
mine." A similar way of thinking could have produced the differentiation
between "rav" and "rabbie."]

Kol tuv y'all,


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:58:28 +0300
Subject: Re: Vihi Noam on Saturday Nite

 Boruch Merzel <BoJoM@...> wites in Vol. 29 No. 27
>If a Yom Tov occurs during the following week, Vihi Noam, etc. is not
>recited because there wil not be a full week of work days and the
>k'dusha that the Yom Tov will bring with it obviates the need for the
>special protection that Psalm 91 is meant invoke.

1. That's fine.  But why do Sefaradim recite Viyhi No'am and V'ata
Qadosh even if yomtov does occur during the following week?

2. Since 9 b'Av is called a mo'ed (and since we belive that mashi'ah
will be coming by that date), why do Ashkenazim recite Viyhi No'am and
V'ata Qadosh on the Motza'ei Shabbat preceding 9 b'Av?

			Ira L. Jacobson


End of Volume 29 Issue 33