Volume 29 Number 69
                 Produced: Mon Aug 30 12:05:58 US/Eastern 1999

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

3 year Torah reading cycle
         [Tzvi Harris]
Adon Olam
         [Shlomo Abeles]
Feeding Children
         [Dov Frimer]
Glatt Yacht, Mixed Dancing
         [Meir Shinnar]
High Tuition vs Chinch
         [Moti Silberstein]
Missionary Material (2)
         [Moti Silberstein, Dov Frimer]
Morality of Polygamy
Previous Generations
         [Danny Schoemann]
Pshuto shel Mikra
         [Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer]
Publications and Objectivity
         [Stuart Wise]
Rav sings Eli Tzion
         [f smiles]
Sensors on Shabbos
         [Alan Davidson]
Sfardi Wedding Engagement Traditions
         [Anthony E. Fienberg]
         [Yehuda Poch]
Web Sites and Halachah
         [Pynchas and Yael Levine Katz]


From: Tzvi Harris <ltharris@...>
Subject: 3 year Torah reading cycle

Gershon Klaven wrote:
 >I have long assumed without any evidence on either side that the Eretz
Yisrael custom of a 3 year torah reading cycle died out / ended sometime
around the Gaonic era.  Can this be narrowed down to a slightly smaller
time frame and do we have any sources for the end of this minhag?<

The language of the Rambam in hilchot tefilah 13:1sounds like there were
still those who followed the 3 year tradition during his time.  On the
other hand, the beginning of the halacha indicates that the 1 year cycle
was already very widespread during his time.

Tzvi Harris
Talmon, Israel


From: Shlomo Abeles <sba@...>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:53:19 +1000
Subject: Re: Adon Olam

>> From: Shmuel Himelstein <shmuelh@...>
>> As is commonly known, Yigdal parallel's Rambam 13 Principles of the
>> Faith.  Does anyone know if Adon Olam is based on any other parallel

 Both the sefer Taamei Haminhogim Page 19 Siman 29 and the commentary
Mogen Elef on the Mateh Efraim siman 684 SK 12 bring in the name of the
Apter Rav zt'l that Adon Olam is a 'hakdomo' (foreword?) and 'mesiras
modo'a (notification?) that all the Sheimos that will be said in the
Tefilo are according to the necessary Kavonos, i.e. Adon Olam descibes
the Shem "Adni", Bli Reshis etc the Shem "Elokim', Vehu Hoyo etc. the
Shem 'Havaye BH'

Shlomo B Abeles


From: Dov Frimer <greenj94@...>
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:47:19 +0200
Subject: Re: Feeding Children

> From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
> >We do not feed babies milk together with meat (which I believe would
> >violate the issur hanaa [prohibition to have any benefit from something
> - Mod.]

For a summary of the topic whether children need wait between eating
meat and milk, see: R. Ovadiah Yosef, Resp. Yabia Omer, Vol. 1, Y. D.,
sec. 4; Vol. 3, Y.D. sec. 3; and Resp. Yehaveh Da'at, Vol. 3, sec. 58

R. Aharon Lichtenstein Shlitah, has poskined for us (1 Tammuz 5739) that
a child who is under the age of hinuch in that he as yet does not
understand the concept of waiting between meat and milk, need not wait
at all. He simmilarly cited R.  Moshe Soloveichik zt"l ( The Rav's zt"l
father) to the effect that one may feed a young baby meat and milk at
the same time.

Dov I. Frimer


From: Meir Shinnar <meir_shinnar@...>
Subject: Glatt Yacht, Mixed Dancing

with regard to the glatt yacht issue, several points.

1) Mixed dancing was accepted by much of of the American Orthodox
rabbinate up to at least 30 years ago, and many participated in it.
While there is much revisionism, and there were always rabbanim who
objected, many did not.  This included Rav Yosef Dov Soloveichik ztvkl,
who publicly danced with his wife (from a film of the wedding of one of
his smicha talmidim in the late 1940s).  This also extended with many
rabbanim to mixed dancing between unmarried - my father was introduced
to mixed dancing ~ 60 years ago when the local leader of bnei akiva, who
had recently gotten smicha from Mir in Europe and is now prominent in
Aguda, dragged him into the mixed circle dancing.

    We can discuss the halachic ramifications of mixed dancing and
whether we wish to permit it for ourselves.  However, to think that it
is yehareg v'al ya'avor (be killed rather than transgress) seems far
fetched, and is libeling many.

2) Women singing in public is another issue which was traditionally
accepted by German modern Orthodoxy (including the Breuer community)
which went to the opera.  My father's rav, who was a dayan from Austria
and later came to America, complained about what he called the am
aratzim (ignorami) who thought the normal activities of life - going to
the opera and going to the beach - were assur. Again, we can discuss the
appropriateness of this heter for ourselves, but let us recognize that
it was not viewed as a major problem by many rabbanim.

3) Carl Sherer brings the point of the fact that for business reasons he
had to go to a kosher belly dancing restaurant.  That raises an
interesting public policy issue - is it better that some frum people be
on occasion forced to go to such a place and keep their eyes down, but
that many people who would otherwise eat at trefe restaurants be willing
to eat kosher, or that all kosher restaurants have only kosher
entertainment, but therefore many people who would otherwise eat there
now eat at trafe restaurants?  Closing the glatt yacht would seem to
have similar public policy issues, as some would now go to non kosher
places to dance.

Meir Shinnar


From: Moti Silberstein <moti2@...>
Subject: High Tuition vs Chinch

> if a yshiva has a high tution and i can not pay can you answer these
> questions
> a) How prevalant is it for children to be turned away from yeshivot
> because of high tuition

Historically, Jewish parents have gone to great lengths of self
sacrifice to pay for Torah education. My rabbi's grandparents sold their
stove and sat through a cold Polish winter in order to pay the teacher!

> b) Is such a practice right, wrong or "it depends"

Depends. The teachers of the school have to eat, too.

> c) what steps if any could the jewish community take to avoid such
> a situation.

Start a fund to subsidize children from needy families.

> d) In the meantime what should people like my colleague do with his
> children.

Sell their stove.

May the Almighty grant you blessings and success,

Shraga Simmons
The Aish Rabbi


From: Moti Silberstein <moti2@...>
Subject: Missionary Material

You may burn it according to Rabbi Isreal P Feinhandler

From: Dov Frimer <greenj94@...>
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:47:19 +0200
Subject: Re: Missionary Material

Rav Aharon Lichtenstein Shlitah has told me, halachah le-ma'aseh, in the
name of Rav J. B. Soloveichik zt'l, that one can simply throw missionary
materials into the garbage. Rav Lichenstein added that he personally
acts in accordance with this p'sak.

Dov I. Frimer


From: <Israel.Rubin@...>
Subject: Re: Morality of Polygamy

Barry Best writes (v29 #50) "Apparently, Rabbenu Gershom bought into the
"pop culture morality" of his time to the extent that he banned polygomy
for Ashkenazic Jews." This suggestion that Rabbenu Gershom banned
polygamy because he viewed it as immoral, is not at all
apparent. Actually, scholars believe that he banned it for practical
reasons (i.e. it caused difficulties for Jews living in a Christian
dominated society which considered polygamy immoral).


From: Danny Schoemann <dannys@...>
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:02:55 +0200
Subject: re: Previous Generations

In MJ Vol. 29 #52 Akiva Miller wrote a beautiful essay explaining why
the men were unable to influence the way women acted. A solid piece of
evidence with the obvious conclusion that "if R Akiva Eger wasn't able
to get his wife and daughters to dress in accordance with the highest
levels of tzniut (as Zev Sero wrote), maybe that's because they had a
*legitimate* machlokes with him on what was required!"

I feel the need to add my 2 cents. The women may have had a mesora as to
how to dress, (the same way they had a mesora about kitchen issues) and
it may or may not have been influenced by the street, to some extent or

However, the way people dressed in public in the good old days was very
conservative and tznu'a [modest] - including sleeves, neckline, length
of dress and head covering. That's the way it's portrayed in pictures,
and is the way the 'traditionals' dress - i.e. those not yet influenced
by modernism (take the religious Moslems as an example.).

Only during the current century has the concept of modesty disappeared.
The question to be asked is: When the Rebbitzin who always imitated the
Duchess suddenly saw her going out in public without her head covering -
did it even occur to her there would be a halachic issue involved by
imitating her?

Since she covered her hair because it was fashionable for married ladies
to do so, it probably never occurred to her that Halacha had anything to
say about it. By the time her husband realizes that she only covers her
hair in the house, but outside she walks around 'in high fashion' a lot
of 'but that's the way everybody does it' damage may have been done.

Then the Rebbetzin moves to the USA where you can't even get tznius
clothing (or goes to the big city where they only sell the latest
fashions) - what mesora does she have about what to do in such a

So, was her Mesora "cover your hair" or was it "be in style"?

While the theory of mesora may hold for the kitchen, it doesn't
necessarily do so for dressing.

Which puts in doubt the conclusion about R Akiva Eger's  *legitimate*
machlokes with his wife on what was required! - at least as far as
dressing is concerned.

- Danny


From: Shoshanah M. & Yosef G. Bechhofer <sbechhof@...>
Subject: Pshuto shel Mikra

It was heart-warming to see R' Eli Clark and David Curwin recently take
strong stances on the concept of Pshuto shel Mikra. We had some
difficult discussions here back in '95 on that concept, which were
recently repeated, due to an essay that appeared in a certain
periodical, in MJ's younger "relative" list: Avodah, on the topic of
allegorization of Mikra.  The concept of "Ein Mikra yotzei me'yedei
pshuto" did not arise, for some reason, and it is a very important
principle to remember!

Yosef Gavriel Bechhofer
Cong. Bais Tefila, 3555 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL, 60659
<ygb@...>, http://www.aishdas.org/baistefila


From: Stuart Wise <swise@...>
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 10:48:35 -0700
Subject: Publications and Objectivity

I can't help noticing that any publication in which religious people are
involved in tend to be less than objective.  My question is: is it
considered lashon ha-rah to be objective and to include anecdotes that
can be construed as painting a less than flattering picture of the
person involved.

IN the same vein, many Jewish-owned publications tend to carry
advertising and then in the same issue run complimentary articles about
the paid advertisers. Is this considered, chanifah -- flattering with
the expectation of getting something in return?

I find it both annoying and unprofessional, but also wonder if there are
halachic issues involved.

Stuart Wise


From: f smiles <fsmiles@...>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:54:15 -0700
Subject: Rav sings Eli Tzion 

Just in case someone wants to hear the Rav singing Eli Tzion . The link
for that is http://www.613.org/rav/ravtish7852655.ram
You need real audio player to listen.
 f smiles
www.613.org Jewish Audio Site.


From: Alan Davidson <perzvi@...>
Subject: Sensors on Shabbos

This issue came up a few years ago when I was in West Hartford (I have
recently trekked to New York City) -- the answer someone with the shaila
was given was if you know beforehand that such and such a house has a
light sensor attached and it is not too difficult for someone to walk
into the street instead, one should attempt to avoid it -- this, of
course, leads to other interesting questions -- if it is possible to
walk somewhere without going on side streets at night, whether it is
preferrable to do so.


From: Anthony E. Fienberg <aefienberg@...>
Subject: Sfardi Wedding Engagement Traditions

Dear Sirs :

What are the Jewish laws governing a wedding engagement (i.e when the
decision is made by the male and female to get married)?

What do they require as pre-event conditions, permission, blessings,
sayings, agreements, etc.?

What are the traditions for this event that exist for Sfardi Jews (north
African, especially of Algerian descent)?

How are these traditions different from Ashkenazi Jews in North America?

I would really appreciate your comments.

Very truly yours,
Anthony E. Fienberg


From: Yehuda Poch <yehuda@...>
Subject: z'l

In response to B. Benjamin's query, I have heard, and used, the terms
zichrona livracha, and alav hashalom as well as their gender-opposites.
AFAIK, thy are pretty well interchangeable, depending on preference.

On a related matter, I have seen on numerous occasions, the letters
zain-tzadik-vav-koof-lamed in place of z'l or z'tl.  Does anyone know
what this longer abbreviation stands for?

[Zecher Tzadik V'Kadosh Livracha - The memory of the tzadik and holy one
should be a blessing, usually used in my experiance when the person
referenced was killed in sanctification of the name of God. Mod.]

Yehuda Poch                           <yehuda@...>


From: Pynchas and Yael Levine Katz <ylkpk@...>
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:56:48 +0200
Subject: Web Sites and Halachah

Linda Franco's concern about possible halachic guidelines in setting up
web sites would appear to be a very pertinent and timely issue. I myself
am now in the process of setting up a site of a specific Jewish topic,
and am concerned with possible use of the site on Shabbat. The ASCENT
site, for instance, http://www.ascent.org.il contains the following note
on its home page: "Please take some time to look through our site (but
not on Shabbat!--Fri. sunset till Sat. nitefall)". Other sites, however,
do not include such a message. I welcome thoughts on the subject.

Yael Levine Katz


End of Volume 29 Issue 69