Volume 30 Number 15
                 Produced: Tue Nov 23 20:54:18 US/Eastern 1999

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Do modesty prohibitions prevent sin or create borders
         [Andrew M Greene]
Entire Modim Aloud
         [Carl M. Sherer]
Israeli in Gola on Yom Tov Sheni
         [Shlomo Pick]
Leshon Hara and Shadchanim
         [Russell Hendel]
Mi Sheberach L'Cholim issues
         [Gershon Klavan]
Modesty and Borders
         [Yeshaya Halevi]
Near Death Experiences
         [Jeffrey Bock]
Rosh Hashana Davening should be completed by 12
         [Russell Hendel]
Shehecheyanu on the Sukkah (3)
         [Gershon Dubin, Daniel Israel, Janice Gelb]
Telephone calls for tzedakah and appropriate response
         [Aviva Fee]
Yom Tov Sheni for Israelis in Huts la-Arets
         [Daniel Katsman]


From: Andrew M Greene <agreene@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 07:23:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Do modesty prohibitions prevent sin or create borders

In my understanding, many of the hilchot tsni'ut/negiah (laws of
modesty/touching) were not created because *every* such encounter is per
se sexually charged, but because that *potential* exists. Just as we are
commanded to erect fences and avoid other situations where there is even
a small chance of transgression, these laws perhaps exist for that one
time in a hundred when a casual interaction will in fact result in
inappropriate thoughts.

- Andrew Greene


From: Carl M. Sherer <csherer@...>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:41:34 +0200
Subject: Entire Modim Aloud

Regarding saying the entire Modim aloud, see the Mishna Brura (150?)
where he says that the Shaliach Tzibur should say the words "modim
anachnu lach" with the Tzibur and then wait for them to finish before
continuing so that the Tzibur hears the entire Modim.

-- Carl M. Sherer
Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son Baruch 
Yosef ben Adina Batya among the sick of Israel


From: Shlomo Pick <picksh@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:33:47 +0200
Subject: Israeli in Gola on Yom Tov Sheni

 Before making aliya, I asked a posek concerning what I should do when
coming back to the states on yom tov.  He told me to ask an Israeli
posek which I did.
 That posek, told me that I may do melacha be-zina (activities of work
non-publicly). Upon coming to the states for a visit on pesach, my
family and myself did just that.

shlomo pick


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 23:01:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Leshon Hara and Shadchanim

I just wanted to add some comments to the excellent postings
on Shadchanuth and Leshon Hara  in recent issues (eg Volume 29,#99).

1. Is the shadchan responsible for poor criteria
To echo the cases discussed in V29n99, if a Yeshiva Bochur says he
only wants a non BT, and the shadchan says "But I know BT who have
been religious for 13 years and you can't tell they are BT" and the
bochor says "So they have a share in the next world but I don't want
to marry them"--then the Shadchan is NOT violating Leshon Hara if
he tells the bochur that certain girls are BT. In other words the
problem is with the bochor not the Shadchan

2. Is classification wrong when you don"t know the people
Obviously if the boys and girls "grew up" in the same
neighborhood for 10-20 years and everyone knows each other
it is wrong to "classify" people. But if a shadchan matches
people from far communities which the shadchan doesn't really
know then ALL the shadchan can go by on an initial assessment
are external classfication schemes.

3. Refocus on social events and criteria for marriage; not leshon hara
I would summarize the above two points by suggesting that the evils
of shadchanuth that have been discussed can not be remedied by only
observing leshon hara but rather can best be remedied by (a) continually
teaching children (from a young age) the true values that make a good
marriage and (b) by all Jewish communities carefully creating a wide
variety of social events where members of the opposite sex can meet with
dignity. (In passing one of Rebetzin Jungreis's stated goals in making
hineni several decades ago was exactly that).

In summary while I hear a great deal of anguish in these postings I
really think that the problems lie in poor values and lack of social
mixing opportunities in the community.

Russell Jay Hendel; Phd ASA <rjhendel@...>


From: Gershon Klavan <klavan@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:43:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Mi Sheberach L'Cholim issues

1) I personally don't recall ever hearing a Mi Sheberach L'Cholim that
left out the word "yivarech" from "hu yivarech vi'rapeh". The question
over which text is "more correct" comes down to a philisophical debate
over the relation between bracha and refuah.

2) I was also taught to leave out all titles such as harav, hacohen, and
hacholeh/hacholanis .. from a Mi Sheberach L'cholim.  I can think of two
factors behind this:
	A) Ayin Hara, especially with regard to labeling someone as a 
	B) The point is to include these cholim "b'soch sh'ar cholei
yisrael" and titles tend to separate people from the clal.  This is in
contrast to other types of Mi Sheberach where the point is to give kavod
to the person/people in question.

3) Why do we insist on saying "Yom Tov hu miliz'ok" on the chagim when
the chagim are most definitely a time for ze'aka?  Case in point - we
say all of these nice techinos after Vayehi Bi`nso'a and the
particularly long Yehi Ratzon before the word Shalom in Bircas Kohanim.

Gershon Klavan


From: Yeshaya Halevi <CHIHAL@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 10:25:20 EST
Subject: Re: Modesty and Borders

Russel Hendel writes:
 << if you don't normally say HELLO but you say HELLO to a married woman
we are not worried about sin or even arousal, rather we are concerned
that you have broken your borders of modesty >>

         But on the other hand, this removes this person from the chance
of improving his derekh ertetz (respect) and darkay shalom ("peaceful
path") to a fellow human being.
         Borders are a tricky thing.  They can keep out the bad, but can
also prevent good from going in.  They can even prevent good from going
out, as well as bad going out.  (And yes, this is a generality -- but so
is this whole issue.)
     Yeshaya Halevi (<Chihal@...>)


From: Jeffrey Bock <bockny@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:11:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Near Death Experiences

In the most recent issue of "Country Yossi" magazine, there is a rather
remarkable account of an Israeli man who suffered a terrible accident,
apparently "died" at the scene, and was mysteriously revived.
Immediately following this accident, he had a Near Death Experience
involving an appearance before a heavenly court, dead relatives, and
Israeli mekubalim.

Does anyone know of any other Jewish accounts of Near Death Experiences,
preferably of a recent vintage?

Jeffrey Bock (<BockNY@...>)


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 01:44:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Rosh Hashana Davening should be completed by 12

One more point on all the postings in v30n10 on why we take a break on
Rosh Hashana. It is not only the prohibition of fasting. It is also the
obscure ruling brought down in the shulchan aruch that Rosh Hashana has
a status of a festival and therefore should have half the day devoted to
God and half the day devoted to ourselves.  This is further supported by
the verse in Nehemia8:10 "Eat cakes and have sweet drinks for the day is
holy to God". Using these verses the Shulchan Aruch rules that we MUST
finish by Noon (Chatzoth) in order that half the day belong to God and
half to ourselves (Which is obviously a problem on Rosh Hashana).

Russell Jay Hendel; Phd ASA; http://www.shamash.org/rashi/


From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 10:43:38 -0500
Subject: Shehecheyanu on the Sukkah

> From: Daniel Israel <>
<<> Akiva Miller seems to be assuming that a shehechiyanu must be on a
> mitzvah that is being performed at the time the bracha is recited.  I
> am not convinced that is the case.  Consider the shehechiyanu made on
> Purim before the Megillah reading.  When reciting (or answering
> "amen") to that bracha, one should have in mind that it also includes
> the other mitzvos of Purim (shaloch manos, matanos l'evyonim, and the
> seudah). >>

	I don't think you'd be able to find a situation where a brocho
is made out of chronologic synch with what it refers to .  The first
example you give, Purim, adds the **additional** purposes of
shehecheyanu for the other mitzvos to the **primary** purpose, the
megila.  Similarly in your second example, the shehecheyanu for building
the sukka is added to the primary purpose of the Yom Tov.  Can you give
an instance where the primary focus of the shehecheyanu is some
situation or mitzvo not currently being addressed?

<<> P.S. While writing this I though of another question.  What mitzvah
> exactly does the shehechiyanu cover (kiddush, the seudah, etc.)
> normally, or is it not on a particular mitzvah at all?>>

It does not refer to any mitzvo; it refers to the Yom Tov itself.


From: Daniel Israel <daniel@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 10:08:23 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Shehecheyanu on the Sukkah

Gershon Dubin wrote:
>   I don't think you'd be able to find a situation where a brocho is made
> out of chronologic synch with what it refers to. ... Can you give an
> instance where the primary focus of the shehecheyanu is some situation
> or mitzvo not currently being addressed?

No.  I didn't mean to imply that.

Daniel M. Israel
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ

From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:03:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Shehecheyanu on the Sukkah

Daniel Israel <daniel@...>
> P.S. While writing this I though of another question.  What mitzvah
> exactly does the shehechiyanu cover (kiddush, the seudah, etc.)
> normally, or is it not on a particular mitzvah at all?

I have been told that the bracha is actually a thanksgiving for HaShem
enabling us to see the particular season again, and is not necessarily
connected to a specific mitzvah for that season.

Janice Gelb          <j_gelb@...>


From: Aviva Fee <aviva613@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:10:19 PST
Subject: Telephone calls for tzedakah and appropriate response

I get numerous telephone calls for tzedakah organizations, most of which
I am not familiar, nor are they in my community.

Given the limit to what I can give, and the fact that there are scores
of needy charities in my community, I do not give to these

With such a preamble, when I do get these calls, which is the most
appropriate and midosdik (respectful) response:

Interrupt their call and say I can not give.  This achieves two things,
saves their time does not get their expectations up


Give them the courtesy of finishing their introduction and charity
description and need, (which often takes a minute or two).




From: Daniel Katsman <hannah@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:48:12 +0000
Subject: Yom Tov Sheni for Israelis in Huts la-Arets

Most of the discussion of Yom Tov Sheni for Israelis in huts la-Arets
treats the issue as a "makom she-nahagu" or "lo titgodedu" problem,
where the Israeli has to weigh his minhag against that of the place in
which he is staying.  It seems to me that this is not correct.  At the
time when Rosh Hodesh was still determined by witnessing the new moon, a
ben Erets Yisrael who found himself in huts la-Arets would have kept a
second day of Yom Tov, because he, like everyone else in the town, would
have had a doubt about when Yom Tov started.  Conversely, a hutsnik
staying in EY would have known the correct date and kept only one day of
Yom Tov.  Keeping one or two days of Yom Tov was a function of where one
was, not of where one came from.

If we have been instructed to maintain this practice even though the
calendar has been fixed and eveyone knows the correct date, we should
observe it in its original form.  Israelis abroad should keep two days
min ha-din (no melakha, Yom Tov davening, kiddush, no tefillin on the
last day), and hutsnikim in EY should keep only one day.

About 15 years ago I was told that this was the opinion of R. Hayyim of
Brisk, but I have never seen it inside.  Does anyone know a source?

Daniel Katsman
Petah Tikva


End of Volume 30 Issue 15