Volume 31 Number 25
                 Produced: Sun Jan 30  9:19:54 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Collect call game (3)
         [David Charlap, Jeanette Friedman, Warren Burstein]
Mi Shebeirach for Cholim
(Not Too) Chazak
         [Yisrael Medad]
Why not make Aliya
         [Leah Amdur]


From: David Charlap <shamino@...>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:37:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Collect call game

Russell Hendel writes:
> Hence we conclude that Halacha allows aggressive business tactics if
> the fraud committed is transparent. Hence THEFT (which is not seen)
> AND THEN CALL YOU BACK is permitted (because all is seen).
> I embellished the above argument by pointing out that unlike theft
> where the store does not benefit, here, the phone company does
> benefit True it loses the labor of the operator requesting the
> collect call and being told no by the parents, but then the phone
> company gets the revenue of the parents calling! So BESIDES BEING
> PERMISSABLE BECAUSE IT IS SEEN it should also be permissable because
> the phone company profits...It is a business decision.

This is a bogus argument.

The phone company does not necessarily get the revenue of the parents

If you place a phone call from a coin-phone, it will cost 35 cents.  The
return call (from a residential phone) may not cost anything - many
parts of the country have flat-fee local phone service.

If the call is long distance, the first call may go through one phone
company, but the return call may go through a different company.
Meaning you have stolen the call from the first company.  They do not
get paid back because the price for the return call is getting paid to
somebody else.

If the call is international, it becomes even more obvious.  If you make
the first (unpaid) leg of the call from Israel, and the return call
comes from the US, the bulk of the cost will be paid to US phone
companies.  The Israeli phone company, although they will be partially
compensated by the US company for completing the call, will not collect
as much as they would have gotten had they originated the call.

You can't use the "someone's paying for the call" argument when the
company being stolen from is different from the company getting paid.

-- David

From: Jeanette Friedman <FriedmanJ@...>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:09:03 EST
Subject: Re: Collect call game

<< A suggestion to educators - don't just tell your students "don't do
X", give them a lesson on why X is forbidden.  And if the class is on a
high enough level, think of a few possible arguments that X might be
permitted and refute them. >>

Tell them that thievery is thievery.  And you are not stealing anything
from the phone company when you are locating your cell phone. It is
increasing your ability to spend more money on the cell phone by having
it at your fingertips. Have phone, will travel, and talk and talk and

I always thought a teacher's job was to make kids think
critically. Parents, too. I thought it was our jobs to make our kids
self sufficient, responsible adults who can go out there and make their
own lives.

Instead I see students being told that they are not allowed to think for
themselves. That they must do such and so, they are not permitted to
question, to examine, to take ideas that have social valaue and toss
them back and forth.

Where are the shiyurim on ethics? On critical thinking? On telling
truth? On human rights? On respect?

There's plenty of shiyurim on kabbalah and halacha, but were are the
basics of Yiddishkeit as menschlichkeit? And how will our kids get an
education if they don't learn some secular basics like reading, math and
computer sciences?

I had a cousin who was a talmid chocum who worked for The Rand Corp, a
major think tank.  I remember yeshiva bochrim who went on to become
lawyers in the justice department, entymologists and etymologists,
chemists, mathematicians, doctors, surgeons, mathematicians and
teachers. I remember girls from Bais Rivkah who went on to Harvard Law
School and girls from Esther Schoenfeld who won national merit
scholarships and went to medical school.

Where are those people? Where are the people like that who can remain
erliche Yidden and not go stomping on others because they are insecure
and still be frum?

Why should people like that be disrespected by ANYONE today?

I keep thinking of that shidduch questionnaire i got last year. It was
frightening in its bigotry against knowledge and full of some of the
community's mishigasin. We Jews are in a lot of trouble and we have to
start fixing it.

Jeanette Friedman

From: Warren Burstein <warren@...>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:38:46
Subject: Re: Collect call game

>From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
>So the Gmarrah (according to the Rambam) explicitly allows the store
>owner to maliciously destroy the peels THEREBY GETTING PEOPLE TO BUY
>BEANS THEY NORMALLY WOULD NOT BUY!!! The reason this fraud is allowed is
>because it is recognizable.
>Hence we conclude that Halacha allows aggressive business tactics if the
>fraud committed is transparent. Hence THEFT (which is not seen) is
>CALL YOU BACK is permitted (because all is seen).

The shopper can see the beans are peeled before buying (and decide
whether to buy them or not).  The phone company certainly can't see it
before placing the collect call (and refuse to make those that won't be
 So I don't see how the situations are comparable.

>I embellished the above argument by pointing out that unlike theft where
>the store does not benefit, here, the phone company does benefit True it
>loses the labor of the operator requesting the collect call and being
>told no by the parents, but then the phone company gets the revenue of
>should also be permissable because the phone company profits...It is a
>business decision.

As Yossi Abramson pointed out in v30n85, it could be a different phone
company that makes the return call.

But even if one is calling within the area of one phone company and
using that company's pay phone, the two calls are separate actions.  If
one walks out of the store without paying, and goes back in and buys
something else for which the profit covers the loss of the first item,
is this not still theft?  If a storekeeper sees a regular customer
pocket an item, and decides to keep quiet, knowing that more money will
be made on subsequent purchases, is it not still theft?

Even if it's considered a single transation, if the seller asks for $1,
but will make a profit at $0.90, and a customer switches labels so that
only $0.90 is paid, is this theft?  Or how about an outright lie?  I
used to shop at a fruit store that had two grades of fruit, and the
seller would ask me if these apples were from the expensive or the cheap
pile.  If I knew that the seller would still profit by selling expensive
apples at the cheap price, would I have been allowed to lie?


From: Mordechai <Phyllostac@...>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:54:29 EST
Subject: Mi Shebeirach for Cholim

With regard to the question I raised here recently, regarding why some
siddurim now have, in the mi shebeirach for cholim, the words 'hu
yivoreich viyirapeih' instead of just 'hu yirapeih' ,as I recall from
the past, I have thought of a possible explanation, as follows.

Maybe some have yivoreich in that text for corrrespondence - e.g. all of
the various 'mi shebeirachs' seem to start off in the same way - e.g. Mi
SHEBEIRACH, hu YIVAREICH (He who BLESSED our forefathers, should BLESS
us...) - so having one that says mi SHEBEIRACH , hu YIRAPEIH (He who
BLESSED our forefathers, should HEAL......) seems to be deficient, as it
lacks that correspondence - perhaps therefore some say [have added?]

I still reiterate my previous questions though. Is such correspondence
absolutely necessary? If it wasn't there before, why add it now? Which
version is the original one?



From: Yisrael Medad <isrmedia@...>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:25:29 +0200
Subject: (Not Too) Chazak

Emanuel Adler <EAdler@...> wrote:

>Rabbi Yosef Adler, of Cong. Rinas Yisrael and Torah Academy of Bergen
>County in Teaneck NJ, has said (in the name of Rav Soloveichik zt"l, I
>believe) that the first chazak may have originally been an abbreviation
>for "chazan v'kohol", an instruction that the reader and congregation
>are to say the words "chazak v'nischazeik", and subsequently, through
>printers' error, it became "chazak, chazak, venischazeik".

As the words probably never appeared in the Siddur but in the Tanach
books, IMHO I doubt that this is a reliable or even logical solution but
maybe someone could confirm.  I do know a woman named Kahatya, from the
Siddur abbreviation Kol Han'shama T'hallel Y-ah Halleluy-ah.

Yisrael Medad


From: Leah Amdur <amdur@...>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:05:29 +0200
Subject: Why not make Aliya

I would like to comment from my experiences

When we left South Africa 3 years ago for Israel we were penniless. At
the time my husband was 55 I was 46 and our two sons were 12 and 14 at
the time.  My husband had no profession and I was a qualified nurse
teacher and lawyer.

We battled for 2 years and were in dire financial straigths. One year
ago my husband started collecting money for children with terminal
illnesses.  I tried a English teaching course which was unsuccessful and
in despair returned to the legal profession.  I am now doing stage
(internship) and have completed my pre-stage exams.

My husband was nifta three months ago.

Our sons where Baruch Hashem very successfully integrated into the
Haredi system here.  We started out in Askelon and by Hasgocha Pratis
they went to Yeshiva Beit Echiezer which is an excellent Yeshiva Katana
for children from Chutla Aretz.  It teaches only in Hebrew but the Rosh
Yeshiva is American and the Menahel is Swiss it is also connected to
Shuvu which does wonderful work with integrating Russian Olim into the
Haredi system.

I found that Israel is only difficult for the first two years or so
until one learns to speak Hebrew sufficiently to be able to work.One
sees the hand of Hashem at every instant and if one has emunah and
bitachon life is not a problem here.  Also one can never prejudge a
situation and say that ones circumstances will be the same in Israel as
they were in Chut la Aretz.  Hashem has a miriad of ways to give us
parnassah here.  There are also very many more carreer paths here than
there are there because of the religious structure of life here.  Also
one becomes a different person here.  Ha Rav HaGaon Bulman of Male Dafna
and Neve Yaakov Jerusalem says that when we come to Israel are masks
from the Golus are removed and we discover our real selves.

The Torah one learns in Eretz Israel is much more intense than the Torah
one learns in the Golus and if one learns a daf in Jerusalem it is like
learning 10 dapim as compared with the Golus.  Chazel say that the air
of Jerusalem makes one wise.

The children learn Torah at an incredibly faster pace here because they
speak Hebrew.

As for the comment of no friend and no social network here.  If one
lives in Jerusalem it is like living in America, England, South Africa
etc.  There are many neighbourhoods which are predominantly English, -
Har Nof, Neve Yakov, Rechavia, Ramot, and many towns Ra'anana Efrat etc
are very English to name but a few.

The Anglo Saxons in most neighbours become very close and are often
closer than relatives and much closer than the friends I had in Chutz la
Aretz.  (Even though I had very good and close friend in Johannesburg.)
This is because we don't have family here so we make our friends our
close family.  When I sat shiva 3 months ago I was overwhelmed by the
kindness of my community I was not left alone for a minute.  One sees
the most incredible chessed and caring in this country.

The quote "no grandparents will be there" is also a misconception many
peoples parents have followed them here.  Those who haven't come for one
month and often six months a year.

No job skills to take there - I know people with no job skills who live
adequately on the social services here and whose children have a much
better life here than where they came from

The unwllingness to uproot children from social networks is also not a
valid reason - after an adjustment of a year or so children are rarely
unhappy here.  This is truly the land of the child it is a paradise for
children they are independent here and can get around by themselves on
the buses from a very early age.  I see 3 year olds going to school on a
tender by themselves or on the bus accompanied by their 6 year old
sibling.  Children have time to play here as the weather is so wonderful
and the neighbourhoods are especially designed for them so that they can
play outside by themselves in safe environments.

People who raise problems and prevent themselves from coming are
deluding themselves.  They are so wrapped up in the material advantages
of their golus existence that they are missing out on the real purpose
of life.  They are futilely clinging onto an assimilated false existence
and denying themselves the emet of living in the land that Hashem gave
to us which is the only place where we can live a true Jewish existence.

There are so many mitzvas which can only be performed in Israel and the
chagim are a mockery outside Israel once you have experienced chagim
here you would feel totally destraught to leave Israel.  How can one sit
in a sukkah in Chutz la Aretz when the weather is not the same?  How can
one celebrate Pesach in New York or Johannesburg or Perth what a
tragedy?  Here in Jerusalem we are eating our own fruits and seeing our
own blossoms.

I can't end off without mentioning the Israelis.  Once one gets used to
them one can't live without them.  Once one starts to speak their
language and understand them one realises that they are a very unique
and special people.  They have such strong personalities and such
vitality and are so direct that every minute here is an adventure.

May you all be blessed to come here speedily and thrive here.

Leah Amdur


End of Volume 31 Issue 25