Volume 31 Number 28
                 Produced: Mon Jan 31  6:16:49 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

3 Chilling Stories About College Affecting People
         [Russell Hendel]
Age of "Hameir laarets"
         [Sholem Berger]
Anonymous Poskim
         [Chaim Wasserman]
Appending Hakadosh to Names of certain Rabbis (4)
         [Yisrael Medad, Dani Wassner, Gilad J. Gevaryahu, Warren
Chazak Chazak Vinitchazek - a different slant
Insular Education
         [Binyomin Segal]
Multiple Poskim
         [Richard Wolpoe]
Seeing the Posek in Person
         [Shlomo Pick]
Vacation Destinations with no Minyan
         [Stuart Wise]


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:56:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 3 Chilling Stories About College Affecting People

Bill Burstein (v31n22) offers the following insights about college
<< (..speaking to a Holocast survivor)
he mentioned he was from Poland and had been through the war.  I asked,
"I see you're religious.  Why is it so many people from religious homes
dropped it after the war but you've continued on?"  He answered,
"whatever someone was when they went into the camps, that's how they
came out."  So maybe college is not really the problem after all. >>

 Allow me to tell 3 stories contradicting this. The Rav (Soloveitchick)
tells of a man whose daughter was accepted to a good school without a
jewish population. He asked the Rav "Should I let my daughter go
there?". "No" said the Rav. "But she will be vegetarian and stay in her
room on shabbath...."  "Would you have let your daughter grow up among
non-jews?", asked the Rav, "My answer is still no." 4 years later this
same man called the Rav "Rabbi Soloveitchick please help me...my
daughter is engaged to marry an Indian" (Sorry...but there was no happy
ending to this story)

 My Tnach Teacher, Rabbi Amnon Haramati of Yeshiva Flatbush told me that
although he used to encourage acceptance to out of state colleges he no
longer did so because of the great changes that had taken place and the
increased exposure and pressures.

 My mother Perl Hendel explained to me once that while she did not mind
my going to an out of state college she nevertheless would not trust
some of my other siblings to go out of state. She explained that they
were very impressionable while I was very strong in my beliefs under
outside pressure.  (My mother also had checked that there was a Jewish
college community)

Bottom line, according to my mother, College can change some people and
every responsible parent should assess their situation individually.

Russell Hendel; Phd; ASA; Math Towson;
Moderator Rashi Is Simple


From: Sholem Berger <sholemberger@...>
Subject: Age of "Hameir laarets"

I am looking for sources which estimate the date of composition of the
piyut "Hameir laarets" (i.e., that piyut which comes after the first
brakhah before the Shma in weekday Shacharit). I am particularly
interested in the portion modified from Jeremiah 10:10 ("umashmiim
beyira yakhad bekol divrey elokim khayim..."), but any historical
information about that piyut in general would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help you could give; off-list e-mails would
also be welcome.

Sholem Berger


From: Chaim Wasserman <Chaimwass@...>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:26:43 EST
Subject: Re: Anonymous Poskim

Carl Sherer wrote:
<< The problem  with asking shailas over the internet is that to the extent 
that the Rav should know you personally before answering a shaila, he cannot 
really do so. >>

Just a footnote to this. One of the greatest (unkown) talmidei chachamim
of this century, HaRav Yisroel Gustman, z.tz.l., would tell his students
"Before you paskin the shailah, you must paskin first on the person
asking the shailah."

chaim wasserman


From: Yisrael Medad <isrmedia@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:25:27 +0200
Subject: Appending Hakadosh to Names of certain Rabbis

Mordechai <Phyllostac@...> writes:

>There is a custom that some have (it seems like it may be a hassidic
>custom in origin, that has spread to some others, but I am not 100%
>sure), to append 'haKadosh' after the names of certain great
>Does anyone know the origin of this custom?
>Has anyone researched it, written about it,etc.?
>I would be quite interested to get information.

My only contribution is that in current usage, HaKadosh is usually appended
now to someone who has died a death that could be considered as martyrdom.

From: Dani Wassner <dani@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:28:37 +0200
Subject: re: Appending Hakadosh to Names of certain Rabbis

On a similar note. I was wondering why some great Rabbis get particular
titles and others don't. For example, Rashi, the greatest rishon of them
all is never called HaRashi (The Rashi), yet just about everyone else is
"HaRambam", "HaRamban", "HaChafetz Chaim", "HaAriza'l" "HaAbarbanel",
"HaIbn Ezra" etc.... You would think that if anyone deserved to be
called "the" something it would be Rashi!

Similarly, why does the Ari seem to have a universal "zal" as a suffix
to his name (the Arizal), when many other great rabbanim don't get this?
Perhaps we should start referring to "the Rashizal's" commentary"?

Dani Wassner, Jerusalem
STATE OF ISRAEL, Ministry of Industry and Trade
Investment Promotion Center, Publications and Economic Information
<dani@...>, Ph: 972-2-622-0556    Fax: 972-2-622-2412
30 Agron St, Jerusalem 94190, ISRAEL

From: Gilad J. Gevaryahu <Gevaryahu@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:20:30 EST
Subject: Appending Hakadosh to Names of certain Rabbis

Mordechai (v31n24) says:
<<There is a custom that some have (it seems like it may be a hassidic
custom in origin, that has spread to some others, but I am not 100%
sure), to append 'haKadosh' after the names of certain great
Rabbis. Some examples that come to mind, are the Shaloh ['haKadosh'],
Ari ['haKadosh'], Ohr HaChaim ['haKadosh'] , Alshich ['hakadosh']. I
think I may have omitted one name - perhaps someone could point out any
I omitted.>>

Although I do not know the answers to Mordechai's questions I would like
to add to the list. The two most important cases of adding "kaddosh" are
"Rabbeinu Ha-Kaddosh" (=Rabbi Yehuda Ha-Nasi), and "Ha-Zohar Ha-Kaddosh"
(=here referring to the book and not to the author). Note that "Shela
Ha-Kaddosh" is the name of the book, but it refers to Rabbi Hurovitz
Teomim, the author; and likewise Ohr Ha-Chayim refers to the author,
Rabbi Ben Attar.

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef refers to other rabbis as "Kaddosh" such as:

"Hagaon Hakaddosh Mahari"m MiSfinka" Yechave Da'at ("YD") 6:14
"Hagaon Hakaddosh Rabbi Ya'acov Itzhak Horovitz - Hachoze MiLublin" YD 6,2; 
"Hagaon Hakaddosh Rabbi Imanuel Chai Rikki" YD 6,2; 5,22
"Harav Hagaon Hakaddosh Rabbi Matzliach Mazuz" YD 5,6; 4,47

I saw also on the Bar Ilan CD/ROM a reference to Rashi Ha-Kaddosh as
well as to Mordechai Ha-Kaddosh. There are over 7000 cases of the word
Ha-Kaddosh in the database, and the above is just a sample. I will not
be surprised that the final conclusion will be that it is a matter of
personal preference of the user.

Gilad J. Gevaryahu

From: Warren Burstein <warren@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:11:14
Subject: Appending Hakadosh to Names of certain Rabbis

Last week I saw a parashat hashavuah sheet, the masthead said that it
was based on the teachings of a (living) rabbi who it described as
"e-loki" (the dash was in the original, after the aleph) which seems to
me to mean "God-like".  I pointed this out to a friend, I had seen
"Hashem" turned into "H-shem" but never had seen "Elokim" (with a kuf,
not a heh) get a dash.  My friend, less interested in the spelling,
asked "is it appropriate to apply that term to a person?"


From: A.J.Gilboa <bfgilboa@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:56:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Chazak Chazak Vinitchazek - a different slant

> From: Jonathan Grodzinski <JGrodz@...>
> An "oleh laTorah" [someone called up to the reading of the Law] is
> required to look aside and/or close the Sefer Torah [Scroll of the Law]
> when making the brachah [blessing], lest people think that the brachah
> is itself written in the Torah.
> Why then, does the Baal Koreh (Baal Kriah?) [ the Reader ] not close the
> sefer before saying "Chazak. . . ". All the more so because it is
> chanted with the same trop [tune] as the end of a Parshah [section], and
> it is printed in the Chumash [Pentateuch] (albeit without vowels) ?

The custom of closing the sefer tora during the opening blessing is not
universal. Many major posqim suggest that it is more appropriate to
leave the sefer open so that the `ole sees the text that is about to be
read. These posqim consider it unlikely that anyone will mistake the
bracha for the tora text. The compromise approach is 1. the `ole looks
at the text in the tora. 2. leaving the scroll open, he turns his head a
bit to the side and recites the blessing.

At the end of the reading, there is no reason to leave the scroll open
and so it is closed during the second blessing. As for the ba`al qore,
since he says "hazaq hazaq v-nithazaq" after the congregation, there is
no chance that anyone will think that he is reading these words from the
tora. What about the `ole? When does he say "hazaq"? Since he should not
interpose anything between the end of the reading and his bracha, his
only option is to say "hazaq" after he has completed the second bracha.

Yosef Gilboa


From: Binyomin Segal <bsegal@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:14:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Insular Education

Rav Chaim Shmulevits (31:6) discusses (among a number of sources to
prove this point) a gemara (A.Z. 17). The gemara tells of two amoraim
about to take a walk. Their path will lead them either in front of a
house of idolatry or a house of prostitution. The gemara then records
their debate about which path to take.

What is clear from this and other sources, is that in general EVEN great
people are expected to avoid temptatation, rather than fight temptation.
The discussions of King David who asked to be tested (and then failed
his test) or the words in pirkei avos "do not trust in yourself until
you die" (inexact translation mine) are just two more examples of a
general sense that the greater part of valor is avoiding temptation.

HOWEVER, the avoidance of temptation is not always possible. And _it is
becoming less and less so_! In the ghetto, the temptations were limited,
and even in the American ghetto of fifty years ago the possiblities and
temptations were and could be limited. Today, I doubt there is anywhere
(certainly not anywhere in the US) where the option to educate our young
in a naive environment is even possible.

Once we recognize that our youth (and ourselves) will be (are) exposed
to all sorts of temptations, the question becomes one of an entirely
different nature - not whether to fight temptation, on this there is no
choice - but which temptation to fight, and how best to fight these

At our peril we pretend that we have a choice to educate in a protected
environment. We ignore all the proof to the contrary and then wonder why
we experience crisis even in "the best" homes.

The modern media has made the issue of raising naive youth moot. We must
now face the question of how to educate to succeed temptation.

kol tuv


From: Richard Wolpoe <richard_wolpoe@...>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:57:46 -0500
Subject: Multiple Poskim

Asei Lecho Rav, {make for yourself a rabbi} indicates selecting a Poseik
{a decider}.

While I have a Rav to make general deicsions, I might also have
"speicalists" to deal with complex issues.

For example, I met go to my local Orthodox Rabbi on strightforward
issues of kashrus.

However, for complex medical issues, I might consult "experts" such as
J. David Belich or MD Tendler.

I wouldn't consider this as "shopping around" so much as setting up
categories.  These categories might be analogous to having an internist,
a dentist, an orthopedist, etc.

Rich Wolpoe 


From: Shlomo Pick <picksh@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:51:47 +0200
Subject: Seeing the Posek in Person

Carl Sherer wrote:
>IMHO no Rav should pasken that shaila without meeting with the person

 let me bring a proof for his statement that i heard from Rav Tobias
from shikkun vav in bnei brak in reference to asking shailot on the
 the Gemorah in BT Yoma 77b, recounts:
 "(On the day of Yom Kippur) Rab Judah and R. Samuel son of R. Judah
were standing at the bank of Nehar Papa, at the ford of Hazdad, and Rami
b.  Papa was standing on the other bank. He shouted across: How about
going over to you to inquire about a decision of the Law? Rab Judah
answered; Rab and Samuel both agree: One may come over, provided one
take not one's hand out of the bosom of his shirt. Some say: It was
R. Samuel, son of Rab Judah who said: We were taught, He may come over,
provided he take not his hand out of the bosom of his shirt."
 Rav Tobias derived, it's not enough to hear the voice, for they did
hear each other, but personal contact is also necessary.  with the
blessings of our holy Torah,


From: Stuart Wise <swise@...>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:55:06 -0800
Subject: Vacation Destinations with no Minyan

I am always surprised to hear of people traveling to vacation
destinations where there is no minyan.  Is one permitted to purposely go
on a pleasure trip knowing in advance that there will not be a minyan
available for the duration of one's stay?  I am aware that there are
increasing presence of a minyan in unlikely places (such as at a rest
stop on the way to the Catskills), but what about far-out places.

Also, in regard to davening with a minyan, I know people on flights who
don't make an effort to daven with the in-flight minyan because of the
difficulties. Is it justifiable to daven alone in such a case?


End of Volume 31 Issue 28