Volume 31 Number 32
                 Produced: Thu Feb  3 21:40:47 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

3 Reasons for Pausing with Cantillations
         [Russell Hendel]
Appending e-loki to  name
         [David Jutkowitz]
Appending Hakadosh to Names of certain Rabbis
         [Alex Heppenheimer]
Cholov Yisrael (2)
         [Akiva Miller, Carl M. Sherer]
Copying disks
Feeling invisible
         [Ellen Krischer]
Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery
         [Elan Adler]
Multiple Poskim
         [Esther Zar]
P'thil T'kheileth
         [Jack Gross]
Saying 'I like ham but God forbade me'
         [Esther Zar]
Scholarly Paper by Prof. Ullin T. Place
         [Stan Tenen]
Sharon Nachshoni
         [Jeffrey Bock]


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:55:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 3 Reasons for Pausing with Cantillations

J Kahan and AJ Gilboa in mj-v31n14 discuss cantillations like TVIR which
although technically disjunctive are 'really' conjunctive.

A few years ago I posted on mail jewish and explained that there are 3
types of disjuction: a) semantic disjunction b) breathing-pause
disjunction c) grouping disjuction Thus as J Kahan points out a
ZAKEF-KOTON (conjunctive pair)becomes a PASHTAH-KOTON (disjunctive pair)
(provided the word with the KOTON has 3 or more syllables.

This also answers Yehoshua's question about Dt 29:23---for the phrase
the 'fierceness of this great anger should be GROUPED as 'the fierceness
of (this great anger)'. So even though FIERCENESS is in a construct
state (FIERCENESS OF) it nevertheless is separated from (THIS GREAT
ANGER) which groups as one phrase.

Russell Hendel; Phd; ASA;Math; Towson;
Moderator Rashi Is Simple


From: David Jutkowitz <etzdavid@...>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:44:19 +0200
Subject: Re: Appending e-loki to  name

Concerning the issue raised by  Warren Burstein "is it appropriate to apply
that term (E-loki)to a person?"
There are numerous instances of such usage, especially among Bali Kabbalah,
the most famous is the Hari Hakadosh, where the aleph in his name stands for
David Jutkowitz


From: Alex Heppenheimer <Alexander.Heppenheimer@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:38:34 -0700
Subject: RE: Appending Hakadosh to Names of certain Rabbis

In MJ 31:28, Warren Burstein wrote:

>Last week I saw a parashat hashavuah sheet, the masthead said that it
>was based on the teachings of a (living) rabbi who it described as
>"e-loki" (the dash was in the original, after the aleph) which seems to
>me to mean "God-like".  I pointed this out to a friend, I had seen
>"Hashem" turned into "H-shem" but never had seen "Elokim" (with a kuf,
>not a heh) get a dash.

I would venture to say that it's a example of hypercorrectness: since
the dash is placed there when the Name is spelled out in full - so that
there will be no questions about erasing or destroying that piece of
paper - someone evidently thought that it should be there in all cases,
even where the Name is already "misspelled" for the same purpose.

(Even in the case of "Hashem," it's my understanding - and I would
appreciate it if any MJ readers can either correct me or back me up on
this - that since it's not an actual Divine name, it has no intrinsic
kedushah (holiness), so it can be written out in full and there would be
no problem with erasing it.)

[Only point I would make is that the correct capitalization of the word
is probably haShem (or maybe HaShem) since the "Shem" part is what is
replacing the Name of God. Mod.]

>My friend, less interested in the spelling,
>asked "is it appropriate to apply that term to a person?"

Not if it's translated "G-dlike," certainly, because even the greatest
tzaddik (righteous person) is not "like" Hashem. A more correct
translation would be "G-dly," meaning that this person reflects to us
something of Hashem's greatness. This would be similar to the title "Ish
HaElokim" (man of G-d) used for a dozen or so people in Tanach (the

And the title "Eloki" has been used before; the acronym "Ari(Zal)"
actually stands for "Eloki Rabbi Yitzchak," according to most sources
(although there are some opinions that it stands, more prosaically, for
"Ashkenazi Rabbi Yitzchak," since the AriZal was in fact an Ashkenazi by
birth and a Sephardi by upbringing).

Kol tuv y'all,


From: Akiva Miller <kgmiller@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:13:01 -0500
Subject: re: Cholov Yisrael

David Cohen wrote: <<< Sorry for bringing back this thread, but I just
purchased a gallon of "Hood" milk (apparently a New England dairy, HP Hood &
Sons) with a hechsher from the "KVH". Does this make the milk "cholov
yisrael"? >>>

The KVH's policy might be different, but there is a lot of milk in the
NY-NJ area with the OU on it, and the OU Pesach directory each year
explicitly says that milk is *not* Cholov Yisrael even with an OUP
(unless it actually says Cholov Yisrael on the label).

Then what *does* the OU supervision mean, if they weren't watching them
milk the cows? My guess is that it refers two things: (1) They are
relying on the government to make sure that all the milk was kosher cow
milk, but the OU is certifying that the added vitamins are kosher. (2) I
have heard that milk is often pasteurized on the same equipment as other
products (such as chocolate milk) which might have non-kosher
ingredients, and the OU is certifying the equipment to have been kosher.

Akiva Miller

From: Carl M. Sherer <cmsherer@...>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:13:52 +0200
Subject: Cholov Yisrael

Unless things have changed in the 25 years since I last lived in Boston,
it does not. Many dairies in the US have hashgochos (supervision) from
Rabbinic organizations that do not mean that the milk is "cholov
yisroel" in the sense that people commonly refer to "cholov yisroel."
AFAIK, this is "cholov hacompanies" with a hashgacha that watches what
goes into the plants and not the milking itself.

Carl M. Sherer
Please daven and learn for a Refuah Shleima for my son, Baruch Yosef ben
Adina Batya among the sick of Israel.  Thank you very much.


From: Leah <chrivie@...>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:53:37 +0200
Subject: Copying disks

Does anyone have information about copying disks? thank you


From: Ellen Krischer <krischer@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:12:02 -0500
Subject: Feeling invisible

> However, I am willing to bet that if she has been regularly attending
> your morning minyan, she either does not feel invisible at not being
> counted or is willing to put up with being invisible If not being
> counted bothered her, she probably would not be attending an Orthodox
> synagogue, or at least she has already steeled herself to put up with
> that feeling.
>-- Janice

My experience is quite different Janice.  I know intelligent (maybe
that's the problem :-( **), committed, serious, orthodox women who
attend synagogue but for whom it still hurts sometimes to be invisible.
It is especially bad when a Rav decides that's the day for a sermon on
how the experience of Tefillin in a metaphor for "our" relationship with

I thank Rabbi Adler for raising this issue.  It is rare I hear it
discussed by a man (unless his wife is directly impacted by the issue.)

Ellen Krischer

** Before I get, er, flamed, for seeming to imply that women who don't
have this issue aren't intelligent, let me explain.  Over the years I
have been involved in numerous discussions on a number of religious and
social issues, from women's tefillah to the proper role of a wife.  (And
for those who know me, shyness was never my biggest gift. (No laughing
from the peanut gallery!))  On many occasions, and starting from a
relatively young age, I have been counseled to "act less intelligent",
"stop being so intellectual", "accept the subsurvient (whatever that
means) role that God intended for women."  As a consequence, I sometimes
wonder how much of a role intelligence (of the various kinds that exist
- I don't just mean book smarts) plays in the difficult issues facing
women - and the Jewish community in general - today.


From: Elan Adler <eylry@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:54:52 PST
Subject: Halacha and Cosmetic Surgery

 Can a Halachik Jew consider having cosmetic surgery? Is it halachically
appropriate to alter the features which Hashem gave us?Does it show a
lack of emunah if we vary aspects of what we were given? In our
religious hashkafah, we believe that "kol mah d'avid Rachmana, l'tav
avid," that all that Hashem gave us is for the good, and whatever he
gave us, he gave for a reason. Perhaps the crooked nose or droopy eyelid
was meant to be a kind of nisayon.
 When we see someone of exaggerated features, the bracha of "meshaneh
habriyot" our acceptance of what Hashem has done. The bracha doesn't ask
Hashem to take away the person's embarassment or have people see him
positively. It seems to say that this is the way Hashem works, a kind of
"shekacha lo be'olamo."
 If there are insights into this area, I would appreciate hearing them.
Thank you.

Rabbi Elan Adler
Baltimore, MD


From: Esther Zar <ESTABESTAH@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:18:11 EST
Subject: Re: Multiple Poskim

From: Richard Wolpoe <richard_wolpoe@...>
<< Asei Lecho Rav, {make for yourself a rabbi} indicates selecting a Poseik
 {a decider}.

 While I have a Rav to make general deicsions, I might also have
 "speicalists" to deal with complex issues. >>

i remember learning in high school with rav Binyomin Forst on the
terminology of the Ramban "naval birshut hatorah" that what it also
means is one that consults different rabbis for different matters but
the key motivation there being that he's looking for heterim- basically
he wants to hear what he wants to do. so i guess there's a fine line
that lies in one's motivations and only the chooser of the rabbis knows
how honest his decision is.


From: Jack Gross <jbgross@...>
Date: 20 Jan 00 21:50:22 EST
Subject: Re: P'thil T'kheileth

> tvir is a ta'am hamafsik (a disjunctive trop); the commas are as
> follows:
> v'noth'nu, al tsitsith hakonof, p'thil t'kheileth
>  ...tvir   ...meir'kho tip'kho  ...meir'kho siluk
> Perets Mett

T'vir is mafsik; but a tippcha following it is generally a greater mifsik

Consider, for example: 
 U'mekallel [mercha] 
 aviv       [tevir] 
 v'immo     [tippcha] 
 mos yumas  [s.p.]


From: Esther Zar <ESTABESTAH@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:02:23 EST
Subject: Re: Saying 'I like ham but God forbade me'

 RE:> From: Daniel Cohn <dcohn@...>
> I have always had trouble accepting this. For example, a man who is so
> in love which his wife that he cannot even think of being with another
> woman, is at fault, according to this dictum, and should strive to be
> attracted to other women, but, grudgingly, stick to his wife because the

the essential difference between the above examples - kashrut and
adultery we could find in what the ktav sofer writes on verse 6:12 in
parshat noach. (i will try to translate to the best of my ability). the
ktav sofer asks - what necessitated the seemingly redundant use of the
word hishchit/nishchetah(the pasuk says: "Hashem saw the world, and it
was corrupted because all flesh had corrupted its way on the earth". the
question is why the double use of 'corrupted'? if the world was
corrupted why say later that everyone was corrupted-it's the same
thing,no?)the ktav sofer answers that from this pasuk we can infer how
low the people of the noachide generation really were.  the ktav sofer
compares the attitude of "i like ham but G-D forbade me" to those
mitzvot that we are to develop our own innate recognition to. he says
the difference between the two is that those mitzvot that the
sechel(common sense) would dictate as desirable (i.e. forbidding
adultery) or at the very least sensible-we are expected to acquire an
instinct for, and the more we do, the more it demonstrates our
refinement in character. however those G-D given mitzvot that we do not
know the reason for yet in this world (i.e.  kashrut), for those we have
to have the attitude of 'efshi..' -of 'i like ham but G-D forbade
me". {therefore -just to end the vort- what that pasuk and that double
use of hashchata/ corruption is telling us is - is that those people
were on such a level that even those things which sechel ought to have
dictated to them as assur ("ki hishchit kol basar et darko-the very
derech of the world") , they did not see as possessing truth}.


From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:35:38 -0500
Subject: Scholarly Paper by Prof. Ullin T. Place

As most of the readers of this list know, I've been proposing for
several years now that Hebrew letters (Meruba Ashuris letters) in common
rabbinic form are actually based on hand-gestures of an idealized hand.
There's now a growing body of (completely independent and scholarly)
evidence that this is plausible.  Not only do we now know that persons
blind from birth use the same gestures as sighted persons when they
speak (Iverson & Goldin-Meadow, among others), and that these appear to
match some of the Hebrew letters (where the gestures have been
published), but Michael Corballis, in "The American Scientist" last
year, proposed (based on a summary of scholarly and psychological work)
that anthropologically speaking, we gestured before we spoke. Links to
both of these papers can be found at
<http://www.meru.org/3220lecture/contents.html#gestlang>.  A colleague
recently forwarded a new paper and link on this by Ullin T.  Place,
published in the refereed Princeton online journal, PSYCOLOQUY, titled
"The Role of the Hand in the Evolution of Language."  This paper is
available at >http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/cgi/psyc/newpsy?11.007>

Clearly, if particular Hebrew alphabets (and possibly, particular Greek
and Arabic alphabets as well) actually derive from hand gestures, this
will have fairly wide scholarly implications, particularly for
evaluation of the sorts of Kabbalistic speculations on the origins of
the Western sacred alphabets that have been dismissed as fanciful.

Meru Foundation   http://www.meru.org   <meru1@...>


From: Jeffrey Bock <rashbi@...>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:15:03 PST
Subject: Sharon Nachshoni

Has anyone heard of Sharon Nachshoni, an Israeli who apparently had a
near death experience and was tape-recorded by his brother-in-law
describing the heavenly court.  Searching the net, the only thing I find
is an audio clip on Arutz-7 which doesn't function.  Is this guy's story


End of Volume 31 Issue 32