Volume 32 Number 23
Produced: Sun May 14 22:06:32 US/Eastern 2000
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Coca Cola and Peanut Oil
[Jordan Hirsch]
Coca Cola for Passover (2)
[Lester Hering, Gershon Dubin]
Cotton Seed and Kitniyot
[Kobi Ableman/Nadia Kahan]
Cotton Seed Oil (3)
[Eli Turkel, Norman Bander, Ira Hartman]
First Seder on Motzaei Shabbat - bakeries opening on Friday?
[Jonathan Grodzinski]
Peanut Oil (3)
[Mike Gerver, Hanno Mott, William J Scherman]
Seder on Motza'e Shabbat
[A.J.Gilboa]
Seder on Motzei Shabbat (2)
[Gershon Dubin, I. Harvey Poch]
Soy
[Akiva Atwood]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jordan Hirsch <TROMBAEDU@...>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:00:00 EDT
Subject: Re: Coca Cola and Peanut Oil
<< Interestingly, here in Eretz Yisrael, Rav Landau of Bnei Brak gives
hashgacha to Coca Cola for Pesach. He does not give hashgacha to Diet
Coke. The same also applies to Sprite and Diet Sprite.
I have vague memories of my childhood in the US that there was peanut
oil with a Kosher (non-kitniyos) hashgacha for Pesach. This goes back
over 30 years. Does anyone else recall such a thing?
>>
First of all, all Coke Maivinim know that Kosher L'Pesach Coke is made
with sugar, and therefore superior to Regular Coke under all
circumstances, as it fits the original recipe.
I remember Peanut Oil being used in the U.S. even in the late 70's.
Jordan Hirsch
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lester Hering <lhering18@...>
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 12:37:47 -0400
Subject: Coca Cola for Passover
Coca Cola does not use corn syrup for its Passover Products. Though it
is stated on the bottle label, if you check with the company, corn syrup
is replaced with sugar.
It is too costly to replace the original bottle label, therefore, it has
placed a Yellow cap on the bottle with notation that it is kosher for
Passover.
A number of years ago, I was the Rav Hamachshir for the Coca Cola
Philadelphia franchised bottling company . Our mashgiach went to
Atlanta to check out the Passover syrup formula which was then wire
sealed for all the Coca Cola bottling companies and clearly marked
specifically for Passover use. There were no kitniyot ingredients in
the formula. Then he went to Baltimore to check out the source of the
sugar that would be mixed together with the syrup and the delivery truck
was sealed by him. After further exploration, I discovered that other
bottling plants went through the same procedure. The Coca Cola parent
company is very machmir on all this and is most trustworthy even to the
point where they isue an S.O.P. in book form, on kashering the plant for
Passover.
Lester Hering
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:06:29 -0400
Subject: Coca Cola for Passover
From: Carl M. Sherer <cmsherer@...>
<<Interestingly, here in Eretz Yisrael, Rav Landau of Bnei Brak gives
hashgacha to Coca Cola for Pesach. He does not give hashgacha to Diet
Coke. The same also applies to Sprite and Diet Sprite.>>
Not all that interesting; the same is done by the OU here and I
am sure RL is relying on that hechsher to at least some extent. My
understanding is that the artificial sweetener is kitniyos and has no
good nonkitniyos substitute.
Gershon
<gershon.dubin@...>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kobi Ableman/Nadia Kahan <nadkobi@...>
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:04:32 +0200
Subject: Cotton Seed and Kitniyot
Regarding Carl Sherer's remark about peanut oil on Pesach. I remember
clearly that this was the oil that we used on Pesach growing up. In my
home town of New London Connecticut, I seem to recall that this was
always one of the last items to show up in the super market. I recall
that in my last years of high school though that there was another oil
available. I don't remember what it was but it was much lighter than
the Planter's peanut oil (as I scratch the back reaches of my memory I
think it was made by Wesson).
Peanuts, as others have said, were safek kitniyot among ashkenazim. I
recall that when I was on Kibbutz Tirat Tzvi (religious German
background) for Pesach 25 years ago, two days before Pesach they passed
out bags of peanuts to those that wanted. At first I thought we were
supposed to eat them before Pesach but later it dawned on me that they
were availing the peanuts to those that wanted to eat them during Pesach
according to their minhag.
I can confirm also that one of my poskim ruled that kitniyot
derivative in a 'taarovet' (mixture) we did not have to be concerned
with. He specifically did not allow one to use a kitniyot oil in their
home. But one does not have to search for it.
As far as chocolate is concerned the question here in Israel is
lecithin made from 'liftit'. I am not a botanist but a couple of years
ago Elite put out a letter signed by several Ashkenazi Rabbis that they
did not consider 'liftit' to be kitniyot.
The diet soda and lack of R Landa's hashgacha is also true of Pepsi
products. The 'sugary' flavors had the 'Hatam Sofer' hashgacha while
the diet flavors had the regular Rabbinate hashgacha. I presume that
there is some lack of clarity regarding the 'nutrasweet' that is used in
the diet drinks.
Lastly, here in Israel this was the first year we have had more than
one Ashkenazi margarine choice for Pesach. We generally have had a
pretty disgusting margarine made with palm oil (the opposite of 'no
tropical oils). This year there were two margarine spreads - one made
from olive oil and the other made from canola oil (which said it was
kitniyot). However, these were designed for spreading and not for
baking. Several years back one of the large margarine manufacturers
announced that they were going to make cotton seed oil margarine for
Pesach. In the end it was not distributed and the rumor was that
pressure was brought by the palm oil manufacturer and the Rabbinic
authorities.
Kobi Ableman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eli Turkel <turkel@...>
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:21:14 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Cotton Seed Oil
The major disagreement whether cotten seed oil is prohibited because of
Kitniyot revolves about a disagreement as how one views the problem of
kitniyot.
The major difficulty of kitniot is that it was never a formal gezerah
and arose as a custom over many generations and the origins are very
unclear and very controversial. Even its first mentioning at the later
parts of the tosaphot era it was very debated if one could eat
kitniot. Later discussions over derivatives of kitniot complicated the
situation.
Because of this R. Moshe Feinstein takes the position that kitniyot for
Pesach is determined by custom. Since cotten seed was inedible until
recent technological advances allowed the oil he claims that there is no
custom to prohibit and similarly for peanuts/peanut oil except in
communities that specifically adopted that custom. R. Eliyashiv takes
the viewpoint that kitniyot on Pescah is defined by what is kitniyot in
other laws irrespective of customs/edibility etc. Since cotten seed is
kitniyot for the laws of kilayim it is also prohibited on Pesach.
Several years ago the Belz Badatz came out with a cotten seed oil with a
hechsher for Pesach. There was an outcry in the charedi community and
the hechsher was withdrawn (potential boycotts are a major weapon).
R. Landau has always given a hechsher on cotten seed oil and it is
nothing new.
In the US the OU has also relied on R. Moshe to give a hechsher.
kol tuv,
Eli Turkel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Norman Bander <Nbander@...>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:27:53 EDT
Subject: Cotton Seed Oil
As an aside to the discussion on cotton seed oil: it is considered by
many to be exceedingly unhealthy. The reason is simple: cotton is an
economically valuable crop and so is heavily sprayed with pesticides.
It is these heavily sprayed seeds that are crushed to make cottonseed
oil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ira Hartman <ihartman@...>
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 09:55:38 +0200
Subject: Cotton Seed Oil
In Israel Cotton seed oil was Kasher for all for at least one year, but
it killed the importers of walnut oil.
If cotton seed meal is used in bread it is a very minute additive to
increase the gluten content of the flour for baking characteristics.
When does this make it a bread making ingredient. vitamin C is also
added does that make Vitamin Kitniyot. In all the question of Kitniyot
derivatives such as lecithin from Soy, the additive to chocolate that
was brought up, or the oils form a Kitniyot seed has gotten out of
proportion and an upstanding RAV should put a stop to the rampage. "Any
amhaaretz can posel, but a talmid Chacham is needed to Matir"
Ira Hartman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jonathan Grodzinski <JGrodz@...>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:18:33 EDT
Subject: First Seder on Motzaei Shabbat - bakeries opening on Friday?
I also am of an age to have been around for Pesach in 1950 and 1954, but
not to remember them. I do however well remember 1974, 1977, 1981 and
1994.
Until recent years, it was our bakery's custom not to sell bread for TWO
days before Pesach (or THREE days when Pesach started on Motzaei
Shabbat.) This was to allow our shops to devote two days to the selling
of Kosher LePesach Cakes and Biscuits.
Well, times changed and so have shopping habits. Far fewer cakes and
biscuits are sold at the baker's shop and many more are sold in
Supermarkets. Added to this the phenomenal increase in the consumption
of "fast food" pre Pesach, means that our baker's shop is more
interested in Chometz pre Pesach than in Kosher le Pesach sales. Hence
the wish to maximise the chometz trading hours.
I know that there is a responsa of the MaHaRShaM (?) which permits
Jewish bakers to trade on Friday EREV EREV Pesach, only if it is also a
non-Jewish Holiday (Good Friday?)
I also know that in London in 1981 we did trade chometz on that Friday,
and (mainly because of a lack of recollection) we were forbidden from
doing so in 1994.
Can I trouble you all to find out what the custom is in various towns
regarding bakers trading on Friday Erev Erev Pesach?
Was Thursday or Friday the last day your local baker sold chometz?
And was there any difference beween Good Friday and non Good Friday
occurences?
When replying please give your town, country and the supervising
authority involved.
Jonathan Grodzinski (fourth generation Master Baker - London, UK)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Gerver <MJGerver@...>
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:03:24 EDT
Subject: Peanut Oil
Carl Sherer asks (v32n18)
> I have vague memories of my childhood in the US that there was peanut
> oil with a Kosher (non-kitniyos) hashgacha for Pesach. This goes back
> over 30 years. Does anyone else recall such a thing?
Yes, Planter's Peanut Oil was kosher for Pesach, even for Ashkenazim. I
think it had an OU originally, then at some point (mid 1970s?) only had
a K. I don't remember exactly when it stopped being available
altogether.
Mike Gerver
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Hanno Mott <hdm@...>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:47:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Peanut Oil
I have from Pesach a year ago some Rockeach Peanut Oil with an OU
Hechsher. I couldn't find it this year, but as short a time as twelve
months ago the OU apparently thought it was OK because they don't
otherwise approve items with Kitniot
Hanno D. Mott
<hdm@...>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: William J Scherman <zscherman@...>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 21:55:42 -0400
Subject: Peanut Oil
I saw Rokeach U-O KP peanut oil for sale this year before Pesach!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: A.J.Gilboa <bfgilboa@...>
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 12:06:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Seder on Motza'e Shabbat
Recently, there have been many posts concerning "purim ha-mshulash" and
"erev pesah she-hal b-shabbat". I'd like to refer our mail-jewish
community to a book by R. Tzvi Cohen entitled:
"Erev pesah she-hal b-shabbat u-purim ha-mshulash" in which the author
has collected halachot (laws) and minhagim (customs) from the rishonim
(early decisors)and through the aharonim (modern decisors) on this
subject. Starting next year, there will be a cluster of such
occurrences, so the subject becomes real once again.
I have the second edition (1977) in my posession.
Yosef Gilboa
Rehovot
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 06:57:24 -0400
Subject: Seder on Motzei Shabbat
From: I. Harvey Poch <harvpoch@...>
<<Obviously, our entire house was Pesachdig before Thursday. We had put
> away three small challah rolls, carefully wrapped in paper tissues. >>
<snip>
You need to remember that a kazayis is required for birchas
hamazon, and a kebetzah for seudas Shabbas.
Gershon
<gershon.dubin@...>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: I. Harvey Poch <harvpoch@...>
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 15:22:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Seder on Motzei Shabbat
Not a problem. The "small" challahs were large enough. After all we were
not yet dealing with shiurim of matzos here! (:-)>
Gershon Dubin wrote:
> From: I. Harvey Poch <harvpoch@...>
> <<Obviously, our entire house was Pesachdig before Thursday. We had put
> > away three small challah rolls, carefully wrapped in paper tissues. >>
> You need to remember that a kazayis is required for birchas hamazon,
> and a kebetzah for seudas Shabbas.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Akiva Atwood <atwood@...>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 13:49:48 +0200
Subject: RE: Soy
> (I personally don't think soy is food for human beings, how about flax?)
Soy is a major protein source for a large percentage of the world's
population (Tofu, or Vegetable Protein in the parve hotdogs)
Akiva Atwood, POB 27515
Jerusalem, Israel 91274 >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Volume 32 Issue 23
