Volume 32 Number 88
                 Produced: Thu Jul  6  6:47:04 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Buying Slaves
         [Warren Burstein]
drug problems in a jewish world
         [Derek Koss]
Grama-Operated Electrc Wheelchair
         [Catherine S. Perel]
Hebrew Study aid
         [Aliza Fischman]
Michtav Me Eliyahu
         [Shlomo B Abeles]
The Plight of the `Agunah
         [Jay F Shachter]
Pre-Chuppah Wedding Pictures
         [Barak Greenfield, MD]
Travel Info: Kosher food in Sarasota, Florida
         [Danny Bateman]
Travel Info: Kosher in the Bahamas
         [Aliza Fischman]
Travel Info: Spain
         [Rose Landowne]


From: Warren Burstein <warren@...>
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 01:27:41
Subject: Re: Buying Slaves

Hillel Markowitz wrote in v32n61, regarding having a mamzer marry a
shifcha c'naanit (non-Jewish maidservant):

> There are also those that say that the mamzer would have to be arranged to
> be sold as an eved ivri (Jewish slave) in order to be allowed to marry a
> nonJewish slave.

It's worth noting that the Rambam rules (Hilchot Avadim 1:10) that there
one cannot be sold as an eved ivri until the Yovel (Jubilee year) is
restored.  Even when the Yovel is restored, 2:3 rules that only an eved
ivri who is sold by a court because he stole and is unable to repay
(which is forbidden, even if the victim will get repaid) may marry a
shifcha, an eved ivri who sells himself may not.

An eved ivri would have to already have a Jewish wife and children,
according to 2:4. This could be done without any violations, the Jewish
wife could be a mamzeret or a convert, but it still does produce
mamzerim, so next generation we're back where we started.

Also, does "there are also those that say" imply that there are also
those who say otherwise?  Hilchot Issurei Biah 12:11 says that a shifcha
is forbidden to a freeman by the Torah.  Who rules differently?


From: Derek Koss <djsales@...>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 05:45:58 -0700
Subject: Re: drug problems in a jewish world

Shalom to all

IMNHO drugs are a problem in the world today. Jews today have become
addicted to drugs in about the same % as ALL others, religions, races
etc. We are no different from other human beings. Perhaps the greatest
difference is the closing of the eyes that it wont happen to me or to my
children. Rabbis teaching today have had no, in most cases, formal
training in the treatment of this disease. Disease is what it is, no
matter how you want to look at it. A disease that is treatable,
treatable through perhaps the greatest of all treatments, the 12 step
programs that are free to all.

I hope and pray that any on this list or know of ANY person who are
suffering from any drug addiction seek help. In New York city there is a
group called JACS a jewish group that offers free support for all who
wish to be free of substance abuse.

May GOD show the way to a better life. Shalom and thanks for reading. I
hope this helps just one person

Derek    class of  92


From: Catherine S. Perel <perel@...>
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:06:43 -0500
Subject: Grama-Operated Electrc Wheelchair

>> The electric wheelchair that is now marketed for use on
>> Shabbos, which is somewhat similar to a golf cart, is
>> what interests me most, as its use is not tied to a heter
>> of pikuach nefesh, but rather of kavod HaBrios

> Does someone who is, for example, a quadraplegic really
> need a heter to use an (electric) wheelchair on Shabbos?

> Some weeks ago someone posted a note that if one had
> no alternative, one could tear bathroom tissue on Shabbos
> -- one would presume for immediate use -- in order to
> preserve human dignity.  Certainly someone with a chronic
> condition is equally in need of maintaining their dignity -- I
> imagine that this issue of kavod haBris has boundaries   (If
> one were to break one's ankle, a temporary condition, then
> I doubt that an > electric wheelchair would be acceptable.)
> All this notwithstanding, there have been several decisions
> re:  someone who could only go to shule if they were to
> violate Shabbos -- and the response has usually been.
> "Don't go to shule." -- something, which on the surface is
> discomforting -- but again we only get surface views of
> many such situations.

"Preserve dignity" and "something, which on the surface is discomforting
[when told "Don't go to shule]."

"Don't go to shule" burns deep within me.  I suppose it is fortunate I'm
not a male.  You may say, then, it doesn't matter as it's a female.
Does that mean I lack the desire to worship in the presence of and with
others?  No, it just means I am not so able to do anything: if I can't
use my electric wheelchair I can't use my electric bed, which means my
Shabbos is will be spent laying in bed staring at the ceiling.

What of Rosh HaShana, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, and what I have always
considered the most important holiday, Shavuot?  Am I permitted to
attend?  No.  It is far more than merely "discomforting."  You might as
well spit in my face and/or treat me as Job.

I will tell you what THIS (for emphasis) quadriplegic believes.  You
exclude me from the community.  You tell me I'm a Jew, but not worthy of
attending surfaces.  Hitler would have thought me a worthy Jew, though I
would have been killed far before my Lithuanian relatives.  Remember, T4
was to practice killing Jews by killing the disabled first.

Seperate in death; seperate in t'fillot.

   Catherine S. Perel


From: Aliza Fischman <fisch.chips@...>
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 07:50:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Hebrew Study aid

>From: Cheryl Hall <hallcheryl@...>
>However I just found out from Technical Support, that you can build a
>table but you cannot sort by any criteria. Is there anyone out there who
>know of some software product that can handle this task?


As you know, DageshPro installs a lot of Hebrew fonts into your
computer.  These can be used with any program.  You can always go into
Excel and make your database in there.  The only complication would be
switching fonts for each column or entry.  Although I suppose that if
you select the entire column (by clicking on the column's letter on top)
you can select a font for just that column.  Be aware though, that some
Hebrew fonts need to be 14 pt (size) to be the same size as most 12 pt
English fonts.  That has been my experience.  Good luck.



From: Shlomo B Abeles <sba@...>
Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 03:35:02 +1000
Subject: Michtav Me Eliyahu

>Yeshaya Halevi citing Meir Shinnar citing ..... Michtav
>Me Eliyahu (R E Dessler)... R Dessler says that the
> opposition to corporal punishment is based on infiltration of modern
> ideas, and that the true haredi approach mandates corporal punishment.
>Yeshaya continues
>  I also witnessed the way Rabbi Dessler -- my Uncle Velvel -- used
> his belt on my cousins...

Something seems wrong here.
Rav Dessler zt'l name was Rav "Eliyohu Eliezer" - how does "Velvel"
come into the picture?  Are we talking about the same person?

Shlomo B Abeles


From: Jay F Shachter <jay@...>
Date: Mon, 15 May 200 10:48:04 -0600 (CDT)
Subject: The Plight of the `Agunah

I have just read several volumes of mail-jewish discussions about how to
ameliorate the plight of the `agunah by repairing Jewish marriage and
divorce law so as to make it more faithfully conform to the law of the
United States of America, where divorces are, effectively, awarded on
demand, upon application of either party to the marriage.

In my opinion these discussions are premature.  Before we can profitably
discuss the merits and flaws of various strategies for ameliorating the
plight of the `agunah, we first have to agree on the nature of the
situation which is in need of being repaired.  Thus, there must first be
a discussion depicting the current situation.  Jewish marriage and
divorce law has brought about a certain state of affairs; this state of
affairs must be described.  Only after there is agreement on the nature
of a problem, can we then address measures intended to solve the

But even this preliminary discussion is, in my opinion, premature.  If
Jewish marriage and divorce law has brought about certain wrongful
effects, than, before we can properly understand the nature of these
wrongful effects, we must first understand Jewish marriage and divorce
law.  This is the discussion with which we must commence.  We cannot
profitably discuss the nature of the plight of the `agunah until we
first agree on the nature of the marriage and divorce laws which have
placed the `agnuah in her plight.

Thus, I call upon the contributors to mail-jewish to commence an
exposition of Jewish marriage and divorce law.  After Jewish marriage
and divorce law have been adequately presented, contributors to
mail-jewish should then commence an exposition of the current plight of
the `agnuah.  After the current plight of the `agunah has been
adequately presented, then, and only then, should mail-jewish
contributors proceed to a discussion of how best to repair Jewish
marriage and divorce law so as to ameliorate the plight of the `agnuah.

I have subjected myself to my own maxims, by submitting to mail-jewish a
synopsis of Jewish divorce law, which, however, our moderator has
refused to post.  Consequently, I call upon other mail-jewish
contributors to perform this service to the mail-jewish community, in a
manner that will be acceptable to our moderator.

[Jay's essay can be found on the mail-jewish web site in the section on
contributed essays and articles, as the length is greater than allowed
for submission to the regular mailing list. Here is the link:
http://mail-jewish.org/New_Articles.htm#aguna  Mod]

			Jay F. ("Yaakov") Shachter
			6424 N Whipple St // Chicago IL  60645-4111


From: Barak Greenfield, MD <DocBJG@...>
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 10:53:06 -0400
Subject: RE: Pre-Chuppah Wedding Pictures

In V32 #67, Judith Weil writes:

> By the night before the wedding, the groom knows his intended has been
> to the mikve. Because this knowledge may make him feel freer to touch
> her etc., it is considered better they shouldn't meet. 

If something were to happen, what would be the precise nature of the issur?



From: Danny Bateman <danny.bateman@...>
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 15:03:44 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Travel Info: Kosher food in Sarasota, Florida

Does anyone know of availability of Kosher food in Sarasota, Florida?
Searching the online databases didn't show anything.

Kol tuv,

  Danny Bateman (<Danny.Bateman@...>)
  Meridian Field Support Team Leader, Telrad Networks Ltd.
  Phone: +972-8-913-3408, ESN 828-3408 Fax: +972-8-913-3990


From: Aliza Fischman <fisch.chips@...>
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 08:23:07 -0400
Subject: Travel Info: Kosher in the Bahamas

My in-laws are planning a trip to the Bahamas in the next few weeks.
Anybody know about Kosher anything there (food, restaurants, etc.).  I'd
appreciate anything you know.  Thanks.

Tizku L'Mitzvot,


From: Rose Landowne <ROSELANDOW@...>
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 08:18:55 EDT
Subject: Travel Info: Spain

When I went to Spain last year, I was told that you can't even drink the
milk there.  We brought along an electric teapot and a lot of dehydrated
soups and noodles, boxed milk in small sizes, individual cereal boxes,
and hard salami.  You can buy fresh fruits in stores.

Rose Landowne

>Does anyone know if there is a Jewish community in Seville, Spain, and
>whether kosher food is available?
>If there is no kosher bakery in Seville, are any of the breads baked in
>the non-Jewish bakeries permitted?


End of Volume 32 Issue 88