Volume 32 Number 92
                 Produced: Fri Jul 14  6:33:27 US/Eastern 2000

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Candles on Shabbos (2)
         [Zev Sero, Susan Shapiro]
Controlling a camera at the Kotel....Shabbas question
         [Chaim Shapiro]
Double Parshiyos
         [Ben Katz]
Excellent Qiruv
         [Saul Davis]
Glass Candles
         [Aliza Fischman]
Is flour chametz
         [Jonathan Grodzinski]
Lack of Response to Greetings
         [Nosson Tuttle]
lubavitcher poskim
         [Alan Davidson]
Lubavitcher Poskim
         [Yitzchok Zirkind]
Molad this month
         [Zev Sero]
Pix before the weding
         [David Cohen]
Ratners Cookbook
         [Janice Gelb]
The Ratner's Soup Cart Lives (I Think!)
         [Jay Kaplowitz]
Whatever Happened to Derech Eretz
         [Rachel Smith]


From: Zev Sero <Zev@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:18:53 -0400 
Subject: Re: Candles on Shabbos

Ruthie Karlinsky <isaiah@...>

>Regarding candles causing fires - may I suggest the custom of using
>olive oil instead of candles - it's much safer, and more 'mehudar' as
>well.  In the many years that I have lit with oil I never had melt-down,
>cracked glass cups, fallen candles, or danger of fire (B"AH).  It also
>looks beautiful.

I have used olive oil on and off for many years, and I have several
times had the glass cup crack.  Fortunately, it never caused any fires,
since it always seemed to happen after all the oil was exhausted.
Eventually I began putting a layer of water at the bottom of the cup, so
that the flame goes out when the oil is exhausted, before it has a
chance to crack the cup.

Zev Sero                Any technology distinguishable from magic
<zsero@...>       is insufficiently advanced.
                         - Gregory Benford 

From: Susan Shapiro <SShap23859@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 09:53:29 EDT
Subject: Candles on Shabbos

<<  Putting water in before the candle makes it easier to get
 the metal disk out. >>

    I thought there was a problem with this, since the water would put
the candle out on Shabbos before it got to the end? Comment, please.

Susan Shapiro


From: Chaim Shapiro <Dagoobster@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:34:34 EDT
Subject: Controlling a camera at the Kotel....Shabbas question

I was about to use a Kotel Kam to view the Kotel on a Friday night when
I wondered, can one actually control an object in a place where it is
Shabbas?  I have often heard that there is no problem watching a
football game played in California after Shabbas in Chicago.  However,
in that case, the watcher is not controlling any of the broadcasting
equipment.  He is simply picking up a signal.  As I understand these
Kotel Kams (such as on VirtualJerusalem) the viewer can actually move
the camera adjust the view, etc.  He, therefore, is controlling an
object which would be assur to use on Shabbos, in a place where it is
Shabbas.  Is there a Shabbas problem in that?  Or does one say Shabbas
depends on where you are, not on what you control.  Or perhaps, using he
computer to control these pieces of equipment is not really considered
controlling them?

Chaim Shapiro


From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:16:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Double Parshiyos

Nitzovim-Vayelech is not really a double parasha.  It was a single
parasha that was split when we started reading V'zot ha-beracha on
Simchat Torah (thus eliminating one shabat from the annual cycly).  That
is why it is so short (even together, it is the shortest parasha - 70

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital
Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20
Chicago, IL 60614
Ph. 773-880-4187
Fax 773-880-8226


From: Saul Davis <sdavis@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 17:27:08 +0300
Subject: Excellent Qiruv

I have heard so much recently about the hilul hashem (=creating
anti-religious feeling) caused by frum circles (eg burning
shules). Today I saw a great example of qiruv and a qiddush hashem
(=opposite of hillul).

At the entrance of an out-of-town shopping area in Beer-Sheva some
people had laid a little table as a beautiful shabbath table: candles,
wine, halloth etc. and a little plaque reminding people of the time for
shabbath.  What a simple and effective method of qiruv. Okay I do not
think anyone would become frum overnight from seeing that shabbath
table, but, I do think it would remind people whose shabbath observance
is not so strong to do something about it and also arouse the curiosity
of those who do not even know what it is.

Yishar kohakhem whoever did it.

Saul Davis
Beer-Sheva, Israel


From: Aliza Fischman <fisch.chips@...>
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 08:52:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Glass Candles

>From: Chaim Manaster <hankman@...>
>But since I stopped placing the candles on top of the previous
>wick holder, the problem has not reoccurred.>>
>Reply from Gershon Dubin:
>	I don't know what the cause is, but that is not the cause.  I
>have seen (we have been using these for several years) many instances
>where the flame comes very close to the glass wall and nothing happens
>to the glass.  When we first started using them, and didn't know that
>you have to remove the metal piece remaining from the old wick, we broke
>quite a few.  Again, I don't know why, but proximity to the glass is not
>the reason.  Putting water in before the candle makes it easier to get
>the metal disk out.

Metal is a conductor of heat.  It may be having multiple heat conductors
that get the glass so hot that it breaks.



From: Jonathan Grodzinski <JGrodz@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:28:44 EDT
Subject: Is flour chametz

One of your correspondents wrote:

<<  the practice is to wash the wheat and keep it in water, so it is 
forbidden to use ordinary commercial wheat flour [on Pesach] even during a 
difficult situation..." >>

So, let us assume that this still happens, how does this make the wheat 
chametz?  Surely it is no different from non Shemurah flour, where the 
shemirah (prevention of water contamination) starts only after the wheat is 
ground into flour?

I am puzzled

Jonathan Grodzinski of London - fourh generation Master Baker


From: Nosson Tuttle <TUTTLE@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:03:51 -0400 
Subject: Lack of Response to Greetings

>From: Aliza Fischman <fisch.chips@...>
>I have however, experienced many times
>(not in my own community) where I pass by obviously frum people on
>Shabbos.  I say, "Good Shabbos" and they don't even respond.  Yes, they
>had obviously heard me.  I do not have a mouse's voice.  This is
>disturbing to me on many levels.

New York City has been categorized for this problem.  Perhaps this is
the brusque "Nu Yawka" attitude rubbiing off on Frum Jews also.

The other problem with people not responding to greetings like "Good
Shabbos" is that it is considered in Halacha mental robbery, Genevas
Da'as.  If you do not respond to a fellow Jew's greeting (and probably
true even for non-Jews) with an appropriate response you have robbed him
or her of the respect due to human beings.  This Halacha is so strong
that even one who is in mourning (or during a period of national
mourning) who is not permitted to initiate a greeting should respond in
a low voice (or at least nod acquiesence), so as to indicate that it is
preferable not to greet him (since he is in mourning) and yet to respond
to the initator and not transgress the sin of "Genevas Da'as".  The
"nodding" solution will suffice in a case where a person is unable to
respond verbally because it would be a Hefsek or interrruption, such as
in the middle of prayer, except during the Shemoneh Esrei, where it is
clear anyway that a person cannot respond.

-Nosson Tuttle (<TUTTLE@...>)


From: Alan Davidson <perzvi@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 10:41:16 -0400
Subject: lubavitcher poskim

While the Lubavitcher Rebbe seldom paskened shailos he encouraged all
that when they learn shas, they should learn Rashi, tosfos, and poskim.
While it might be a stereotype that chassidim only know Nistar
(chassidus, kabbalah, zohar) all of the Lubavitcher Rebbeim argued that
one should learn Shulcan Aruch, Mishnah Torah, and Shas.

From: Yitzchok Zirkind <Yzkd@...>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:41:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Lubavitcher Poskim

> I may be wrong, but I do believe that the Rebbe never actually paskened
>  Halacha.

While as a general rule, he did not Pasken, there are many cases he did, 
there is a 4 volume set called "Shaarei Halacha Uminhag" (which is also not 
exhaustive) of his Psokim.

Kol Tuv

Yitzchok Zirkind


From: Zev Sero <Zev@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:35:20 -0400 
Subject: Re: Molad this month

Mike Gerver <MJGerver@...> wrote:

>Although it would seem that nowadays announcing the molad no longer
>serves any purpose, this is not quite true.  After the Yom Kippur war,
>Israeli POWs were not released by Syria until shortly after Pesach, but
>they were given matzah by the Red Cross, and were able to have a seder
>in prison in Syria.  But they were not sure which day was Pesach, which
>depends on the day of the week of the following Rosh Hashanah. If all
>Jewish children were taught how to calculate the molad each month from
>the previous molad (which is easy to do, even without a calculator), and
>were taught how to determine when Rosh Hashanah is, given the time of
>the molad of Tishrei (also easy to do), and were expected to remember
>the time of the molad each month when it is announced in shul, then the
>POWs in Syria wouldn't have had this problem.  In particular, there
>would have been no need to calculate from scratch when Pesach would be,
>which is much harder to do without a computer and software.

It isn't that hard to do from scratch either.

When my great-uncle R Mendel Futerfas AH was in a Soviet prison camp he
had to calculate the calendar for himself.  I don't know whether he did
it from a remembered molad or from scratch, but I think that if he'd
attributed it to remembering the molad then my father would have made a
point of telling me to memorise the molad each month, as a matter of
family `zechor yemot olam' if not as a realistic measure in case such a
thing should ch"v happen again.  Instead, it was only when I had learned
in school how to calculate the calendar from scratch that my father
commented on how this could be useful, and told me about his uncle
having to do so in the camp.

Zev Sero                Any technology distinguishable from magic
<zsero@...>       is insufficiently advanced.
                         - Gregory Benford 


From: David Cohen <bdcohen@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:27:15 -0400
Subject: Pix before the weding

In # 67 Judith Weil posits a number of reasons why a custom has grown
for a chatan and kallah not to see each other before the chuppah (either
just the day of or the week before). Her claim is that these reasons
take this practice out of the prohibition of "chukat goyim" (imitating
non-Jewish customs).

    I believe that the reasons which she gave are after the fact
rationalizations for the non-Jewish customs. No one has sighted any
Jewish sources for this practice, certainly not based on any Talmudic,
Gaonic, or Rishonic source. If the reason given, based on kallah's
having gone to mikveh, the solution would be much simpler-- don't allow
them at be alone together.

    (Sorry that this is a reply to an old thread, but I'm just catching
up) Shabbat shalom,

David I. Cohen


From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 09:51:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Ratners Cookbook

Warren Burstein <warren@...> wrote:

> While this won't help people visiting New York, people who miss Ratner's
> can buy a copy of "The World-Famous Ratner's Meatless Cookbook", Judith
> Gethers and Elizabeth Lefft, Bantam, 1975, ISBN 0-553-12724-1.  I highly
> recommend this book, people have recognized food I've made from this
> book as tasting just like it does at Ratner's (and I think that the
> potato soup recipe made fresh tastes better than soup that sits around
> all day at the restaurant).

If someone wants to buy this, try my favorite used 
book search engine: www.bookfinder.com. They list 
two copies: one for $5 and one for $15. 

-- Janice


From: Jay Kaplowitz <iii@...>
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 12:47:18 -0400
Subject: The Ratner's Soup Cart Lives (I Think!)

Warren Burstein writes:

>While this won't help people visiting New York, people who miss Ratner's
>can buy a copy of "The World-Famous Ratner's Meatless Cookbook", Judith
>Gethers and Elizabeth Lefft, Bantam, 1975, ISBN 0-553-12724-1.  

The Ratner's Soup Wagon has seemingly outlived the restaurant.

I was last at 40th Street and Broadway in midtown two weeks ago, and the
Ratner's soup cart was doing a bustling business.  

Under the Kof-K hashgacha, too.

So the soup is still being poured, even if the "soup maven" takes on few of
unique characteristics of Ratner waiters.  

And as other posters have noted, the frozen blintzes live on, too.
Ratner's frozen foods are widely available in New York.

As for the cookbook, we have a copy and use it from time to time.  IMHO,
it doesn't compare in terms of scope or creativity with Cooking
Creatively With Natural Foods by Sam and Edith Brown, the proprietors of
Brownie's, a NY vegetarian restaurant that closed about 25 years ago.

Ratner's was the last of its kind, the last of the classic Kosher
restaurants that started out without hashgacha or with minimum kosher
superivision and which accepted a nationally-recognized hashgacha as the
needs of the community changed.  I'm not sure Ratner's was able to keep
up with the changing culinary tastes of the kosher consumer -- there
were few gourmet dairy dishes on the Ratner's menu and a whole lot of
high-cholesterol offerings.

 From coast to coast, the marketplace appears to have embraced upscale
restaurants that, for my money, are a lot more pleasurable than a trip,
albeit nostalgic, to Delancey Street.


From: Rachel Smith <rachelms@...>
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 10:43:36 -0700
Subject: Whatever Happened to Derech Eretz

FYI, in the town of Ramapo (which includes Monsey, NY), soliciting
without a license is illegal.  I once called the Ramapo Police
Department and asked what would an officer do if he saw a person going
door to door collecting.  The reply was that the officer would ask to
see the person's solicitor's license, and if that were not produced he
would ask the person to stop soliciting.  If the person continued to
solicit, the officer would give him a summons.

I told this to my Rav and asked if giving to a door-to-door solicitor
constituted lifnei iver (or m'sayea) on a dina d'malchusa dina, and he
said no.



End of Volume 32 Issue 92