Volume 34 Number 03
                 Produced: Tue Jan  2 23:25:37 US/Eastern 2001

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Being Happy in Av
         [Sheldon Meth]
Chanukah and Chag
         [Zvi H Lieberman]
Dakos/Gasos Batim Size
         [Y. Askotzky]
         [Leona Kroll]
Hanukah / succot
         [Danny Skaist]
Mirrors and Tefillin (2)
         [Chaim Tabasky, Gershon Dubin]
Non-jewish parent under the chupa
Schlemiel day
         [Saul Davis]
Shlemil and Shlimazl
         [N Miller]
Shlemil Schlemiel Shlumiel
         [Saul Davis]
Snow on Shabbat (5)
         [Bert Kahn, Josh Backon, Shmuel Himelstein, Gershon Dubin,
Yosef Lichter]
Territorial Waters etc
         [Shaya Potter]


From: Sheldon Meth <SHELDON.Z.METH@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 13:12:12 -0500 
Subject: Being Happy in Av

In V34n01, Mark Symons writes: "is it a mitzvah to be happy in Av?  Most
people say No,but I think the correct answer should be Yes, but not
quite as happy as the rest of the year. It seems significant to me that
we are told to reduce our simcha in Av rather than to be sad."

I saw a Chassidishe vort that has a unique puncutation to the well-known

"Mishenichnas Av mema'atim - besimcha," which loses in the translation:
"When Av enters, one diminishes - [but] with joy."


From: Zvi H Lieberman <rzhl@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:36:58 -0000
Subject: Chanukah and Chag

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the association between the word Chag
and the Arabic Haj meaning pilgrimage.

Its use by Moshe Rabenu in front of Pharoh is consistent as is else
where in Tanach. Later it begins to be used as a term in place of Yom

Zvi H Lieberman


From: Y. Askotzky <sofer@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 16:28:07 +0200
Subject: Dakos/Gasos Batim Size

>>Dakos, are of course, much smaller than gasos. And, as a matter of
fact, the people I know who wear Rashis and R. Tams at the same time
wear dakos.<<

Dakos batim are generally only slightly smaller than the standard sized
gasos. However, many dakos are very large, similar in size to Chabad
tefillin. Today, those who wear 2 pairs at once are mainly wearing tiny
gasos batim.

I already provided clarification on the centering of tefillin issue and
the understanding of Rav Chaim in an earlier post.

kol tuv,
Rabbi Yerachmiel Askotzky, certified sofer and examiner
<sofer@...>   www.stam.net   1-888-404-STAM(7826)
**Reply to <stamnet@...> if have trouble with the above


From: Leona Kroll <leona_kroll@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 00:33:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Grammar

My knowledge of Hebrew's developement, etc. , can't compare to that of
most of the people posting on the subject, but- being a Yid- this won't
stop me from posting my humble opinion : ). Personally, I think it would
be a mistake to learn out too much Hebrew grammar from the Chumash,
since we know from meforshim that there are numerous places where a
phrase or word is used in a way that is grammatically incorrect but
which teaches us a lesson in the meaning of the pasuk, etc. Rashi, esp,
brings out many interpretations this way. I think that perhaps the
Torah's use of Hebrew should be considered seperate from a study of the
developement of Hebrew as a language, in the same sense as other
languages. Hashem put many thousands of lessons into each word of Torah,
but somehow I just don't think that a lesson in grammar, strictly
speaking, was always high on His list.


From: Danny Skaist <danny@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 14:04:50 +0200 
Subject: Hanukah / succot

<< Alan Cooper: eight days, beginning on the twenty-fifth of Kislev."  2
Maccabees 10:6-7 suggest that the celebration was modeled on Sukkot:
"The joyful celebration lasted eight days, like the feast of Sukkot
  . . . . Carrying >>>

Yes, Hannuka is based on succot. And because on succot, every day, fewer
and fewer karbonot are brought, Beit Shamai contends that on Hannukah
every day we should light fewer candles.



From: Chaim Tabasky <tabaskc@...>
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 14:49:36 +0200
Subject: Re: Mirrors and Tefillin

Rav Eliezer Waldenberg in his responsa "Tzitz Eliezer" vol. 12 siman 6
agrees with the Divrei Chaim, mentioning that he never heard of a
synagogue setting up a mirror for the congregants to use to check their
tefillin.  I work for an establishment that sells tefillin (Hasofer in
Jslm.). Originally the owner didn't want to put mirrors in the cases
because of the Divrei Chaim's psak. When a client brought a pair of
tefillin in that had been badly scratched when put in the cover with a
broken mirror, his position was strengthened. However, since many people
continued to request a mirror, he now give as a gift with the purchase
of tefillin a miniature sewing kit (great for traveling) which has in it
a small mirror.

From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 15:27:53 -0500
Subject: Mirrors and Tefillin

From: Eli Linas <linaseli@...>

<<Dakos, are of course, much smaller than gasos.>>

	Rabbi Askotsky will (I hope) bear me out on this, but there is
no relation between dakos/gasos and the size of the bayis. I have seen
dakos the same size as standard tefilin (gasos) although I cannot say
the same for the reverse.



From: Anonymous
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 16:47:59 +0200
Subject: Non-jewish parent under the chupa

My bride has a non-Jewish father whom she greatly respects. She is aware
that there are various restrictions etc. appertaining to non-Jews and
also understands that the honours at the wedding must almost all go to

With this, we have been getting contradictory information from her
teachers concerning her father under the chupa, although he is not going
to actually be doing anything there. The teacher who said that her
father being under the chupa might be a problem, does not see a problem
him leading her to the chupa with her mother.  Another teacher who does
not see a problem of her father being under the chupa if he just stands
there with the rest of the parents, feels it is problematic if her
father leads her there.  The teachers involved are of chareidi
inclinations, and also have experience with "hozrei b'tshuva" from
non-religious or assimilated backgrounds.

I have heard that there is a policy in some countries or communities not
to allow non-Jewish parents under the chupa at all, but is there a
source for this in the rishonim, achronim, or is this just a "today"
policy as a way to show dissatisfaction with an inter-marriage that took
place a generation earlier?

With contradictory information, the response is sometimes "ask a
she'ela", and also have received offers to set us up a meeting with the
(chareidi) gedolim to ask the she'ela, but we fail to understand why a
she'ela is even necessary. The wedding will be under the auspices of the
local Rabbanut (and in the end, if there is a she'ela it might be
directed towards the responsible Rav at the chupa).

I would be grateful for any sources and information on this topic.

BTW, all the wine that will be used under the chupa, and drunk in the
meal will be yayin m'vushal l'mehadrin.


From: Saul Davis <sdavis@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:33:37 +0200
Subject: Schlemiel day

My excellent "luah" program for Psion (by Aron Landy, see
www.aron.mcmail.com/luach/luach.htm) confirms that between the years
1980 and 2049 there never has and never will be a 5th day of Hanukah on
a Shabbath.

Of course when the Sanhedrin is restored (beqorov ubeyomenu) - and we
stop using a fixed calendar and set Roshey Hodoshim by the declaration
of witnesses - these things will change.

Saul Davis
Beer-Sheva, Israel


From: N Miller <nmiller@...>
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 10:59:29 -0500
Subject: Shlemil and Shlimazl

I've been following the discussion on mail.jewish with some interest.
While I myself have nothing original to contribute here, I might mention
that a good deal has already been written about these and other terms in
the almost 10 years of Mendele, and that readers can easily search
Mendele's archives:


a gut yor aykh alemen.

Noyekh Miller


From: Saul Davis <sdavis@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:06:42 +0200
Subject: Shlemil Schlemiel Shlumiel

This really has no halakhic basis. It is only a few months to Purim.

Merriam-Webster writes:
"Main Entry: schlemiel, Function: noun, Etymology: Yiddish shlemil,
Date: 1892 : an unlucky bungler : CHUMP".

A site at http://features.learningkingdom.com/word/archive/1999/11/19.html
"A schlemiel is someone who is a clumsy, unlucky bungler.  ... It's from
shlemil, a word whose origin is said to be in the Talmud, an ancient Jewish
holy book. There, a man named Shelumiel is described, who experiences
difficult times and never wins any battles".
I guess that would be roughly the Shlumiel of the Torah. Where is that word
in the Talmud? Jastrow has no mention of it.

And, www.bartleby.com says:
"Yiddish shlem?l, perhaps from Hebrew Shelumiel, my well-being is God,
Shelumiel (a character in the Bible, Numbers 7:36)"!

Saul Davis
Beer-Sheva, Israel


From: Bert Kahn <bilk1@...>
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:35:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Snow on Shabbat

I don't argue with Jeff Fischer's response that snow that falls on
Shabbas may be shoveled on Shabbas by reason of pkuach nefesh.  My
understanding is that shoveling does not constitute the malacha of
"smoothing" so that the result does not have to be based on pkuach
nefesh. In fairness to the magid shiur the remark was off the cuff and I
therefore do not quote my authority.

Interestingly, this past Shabbas in the winter wilds of Skokie someone
was debating (with himself) whether he should have thought to call off
his snow blowing service which came automatically on Shabbas --- on a
per visit charge.

bert l. kahn

From: Josh Backon <BACKON@...>
Date: Mon,  1 Jan 2001 20:16 +0200
Subject: Snow on Shabbat

The Iggrot Moshe Orach Chaim V 22 rules that snow on shabbat is *nolad*
and thus prohibited to move [shovel].

Josh Backon

From: Shmuel Himelstein <shmuelh@...>
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 17:59:40 +0200 
Subject: Snow on Shabbat

Shouldn't shoveling snow on Shabbat (assuming it's Mutar) only be
permitted in a place where there's an Eiruv or within one's enclosed
courtyard? No one seems to have touched on this aspect.

Shmuel Himelstein

From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:26:26 -0500
Subject: Snow on Shabbat

From: Jeff Fischer <NJGabbai@...>

<<I asked my rabbi that question a few years ago when we had a blizzard
on Shabbos.  He said that you are absolutely able to shovel on Shabbos
since there is Bikuach Nefesh involved. This is only if the snow fell on

        I'm afraid the logic of this escapes me.  What is the pikuach
nefesh-are you a doctor on call or a member of an ambulance corps?  And
if you need the snow cleared, why can't you do it through a nonJew?
Please explain.


From: Yosef Lichter <glattyosher@...>
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 08:46:52 -0000
Subject: Snow on Shabbat

I asked the Rav of a Shiur I attend, HaRav HaGaon R. Yeshaya Dovid Kaye
Shalita about the issue of shoveling snow on Shabbos. I asked: "Someone
said, 'someone asked his rabbi whether shoveling snow is permitted on
Shabbos and his rabbi said that you are absolutely able to shovel on
Shabbos since there is Pikuach Nefesh involved."

This is a direct quote from the Rav Shalita:

"I don't have any Sefarim in front of me at the moment but this issue
requires little thought.  Without getting into the issue of Muktza there
are possible violations of Boneh, Soseir and very likely Mashveh
Gumos. If memory serves me correctly look at the Mishnah Berurah 338
around sif katan 30, Shut. Lev Avraham 49 and especially in Shut Har
Tzvi Kuntras Tal Harim Meleches Soseir 1. Shoveling snow is most
definitely a violation of halacha. As to whether you may ask a non-Jew
in difficult conditions to do so, I would like to think about it."

Kol Tuv

Yosef Lichter


From: Shaya Potter <spotter@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:38:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Territorial Waters etc

>From: David Eisen <eisend@...>
>Is there such a concept as territorial waters of the Land of Yisrael
>with respect to Kidushat Eretz Yisrael? And if so, what would be the
>halakhic ramifications to the following issues:
>2. If underwater cities were to be developed (I know that this is a bit
>science fictiony), were a person to immigrate to such city located in
>the territorial waters of Eretz Yisrael, would such person fulfill the
>Mitzva of Yishuv Eretz Yisrael?
>3. How far do such waters extend beyond the land borders of Eretz
>   Yisrael?

The gemara in the first perek of Gitten talks about this.  There are 2
opinions.  There are 2 cities (mentioned in a previous post), the
machloket is, is the line that makes the territorial waters a straight
line connecting the 2 cities, or a straight line out to "the Okianos"
(Atlantic Ocean) and the area b/w the 2 lines has kedusha.  I believe we
pasken like the first.  For the first question, you can also find some
information in the first perek of gitten.  Why is this all in gitten?
Because of the differences in what a get needs if In Eretz Yisrael or
not.  I believe most of this in is the gemara on the first mishna.

shaya potter


End of Volume 34 Issue 3