Volume 34 Number 39
                 Produced: Wed May  9 12:36:57 US/Eastern 2001

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

8th day Pesach
         [Harry Weiss]
Amount of Seeds in a Pomegranate
Candy at an Aufruf
         [Rose Landowne]
         [Allan Baumgarten]
Hallel in Maariv on Pesach
         [Jeff Fischer]
New Sefer - "Explorations"
         [Ari Kahn]
Question on Shabbos Tefilot
         [Andrew Klafter]
Tefilla question - Phraseology
         [Mark Symons]
Sefirah counting
         [Ben Z. Katz]
Shalom Aleichem on Friday night Chol Hamoed or 2nd days of Yom Tov (2)
         [Jeff Fischer, Ben Z. Katz]
Sholom Aleichem when Friday night is YomTov etc
         [Perets Mett]
Tapes of Shiur by Rabbi Berkowitz
         [Ari Kahn]
Yom Tov & Shabbat
         [Menashe Elyashiv]
Yomtov Tefillah
         [Jeff Fischer]
Request: Apartment rental
         [Nachum Chernofsky]
Request: Apt. in New York


From: Harry Weiss <hjweis@...>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 18:57:57 -0700
Subject: 8th day Pesach

> >This MAY mean as well that you do not launch into
> >eating chametz on the "8th day" of Pesach, no matter how much you are
> Not MAY mean, but MUST mean. Not eating chomets on Pesach is basically
> an issur koreis, and therefore more stringent than not working on
> YomTov.

First as the moderator stated there are numerous difference is psak.
Secondly, even if the psak you follow says keep 8th day, chametz on the
8th day is NOT an issur koreis, but a Rabbinical prohibition.


From: Mordechai <Phyllostac@...>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 01:45:20 EDT
Subject: Amount of Seeds in a Pomegranate

What is / are the source(s) for the belief of some that Pomegranates
contain 613 seeds? Is it perhaps just a misinterpretation of a Talmudic
statement? Is anyone aware of any articles or scientific studies on the
matter - re whether the reality matches up to the (folk?) belief?



From: Rose Landowne <ROSELANDOW@...>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 06:18:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Candy at an Aufruf

I think it's more likely related to the custom mentioned in the gemara
of throwing toasted wheat kernels when a first-time bride passes by on
the way to the chuppa.

Rose Landowne


From: Allan Baumgarten <baumg010@...>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:32:11 -0500
Subject: Eruv

One needs to distinguish between

(1) acquiring the 'reshut' (authority) from a local governing board or
official which can be done in several ways.  That is a halachic issue
(2) getting the various legal approvals that may be necessary if
establishment of a community Eruv requires the installation of new poles
or stretching wires to fill gaps on public or private property, and so
on.  That is a matter of the civil law of the local jurisdictions, and
one may have to deal with overlapping jurisdictions with different
requirements or processes.

For our community Eruv, we got some good advice early on from a city
engineer in Minneapolis. We asked about stretching twine across a city
street to fill a gap in the existing poles and lines.  He said that if
the Eruv corporation wanted to do that its own name, it would need
numerous approvals, liability insurance, and so on. He encouraged us to
work with the local electric company (where we already had a working
relationship) since the electric company had very broad authority to
cross city streets or other property in order to serve its customers.

Allan Baumgarten
952/925-9121 Fax 952/925-9341


From: Jeff Fischer <NJGabbai@...>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:52:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Hallel in Maariv on Pesach

To answer your question, we talked about this over Pesach, I think , one
reason why some Ashkenazim say Hallel on Pesach night is becuase they
said Hallel while eating or bringing (Not sure which) the Korbon Pesach.
Also, some of the great Ashkenazi Rabbis from Europe said that we should
say it.  As to which rabbis, I am not sure.



From: Ari Kahn <kahnar@...>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:03:09 +0200
Subject: New Sefer - "Explorations"

I very pleased to announce to my friends at mailjewish the forthcoming
publication of my sefer on the Parasha "Explorations" - An in-depth
analysis of the weekly parashah through the prism of rabbinic
perspective.  Based on Rabbinic, kabbalistic, and Chasidic
sources. Published by Targum Press. Distributed by Feldheim. More
information can be found at http://arikahn.tripod.com/

Ari Kahn


From: Andrew Klafter <andrew.klafter@...>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 12:06:57 -0400
Subject: Question on Shabbos Tefilot

> From: Shmuel Himelstein <shmuelh@...>
> On Shabbat morning there is often a "change of guard" of Chazanim at
> "Shochein Ad". At that point the congregation recites the first
> paragraph, and the Chazan repeats it. On Yomtov and the Yamim Nora'im,
> though, the Chazan starts earlier (at either "HaKeil" or HaMelech"). My
> question is when the congregation is supposed to say this added section
> and the "Shochein Ad" section: before the Chazan starts? along with the
> Chazan? after the Chazan finishes?

I looked quickly in the obvious places and didn't see anything
mentioned--though it wasn't such a thorough review.  However, we know
that the Chazan functions to signal the Tzibur when to begin the nest
section of Tefilla.  Therefore, when the 1st Chazan ends Nishmas Kol
Chai, the Tzibur is (in effect) finishing Nishmas Kol Chai with him.
When the second Chazan begins Shochen Ad Marom VeKadosh, etc., he is
signally that we are to begin that tefilla together.  Therefore, the
custom is to begin Shochan Ad AFTER the 2nd Chazan sings the first few
phrase of it.  I believe this is generally what we do for all tefilos
except special cases of responsive reading such as Hallel or the
piyyutim on Yomim Nora'im.

-Nachum Klafter
 Dept. of Psychiatry, University of Cincinnati


From: Mark Symons <msymons@...>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:54:44 +1000
Subject: Re Tefilla question - Phraseology

The reference to Shochein Ad reminds me of something else about this. It
bothers me that in the traditional ashkenaz melody for Shabbat, the
division into phrases has Shochein Ad Marom as one phrase, and V'Kadosh
Sh'mo as the next phrase, which seems to go against the meaning. In the
melodies for both Yamim Noraim and Yom Tov of Shalosh Regalim the
divisions are more correct ie Shochein Ad as one phrase, and Marom
V'Kadosh Sh'mo as the next.  Or is there a basis for the former division

Mark Symons
Psychiatrist/Baal Koreh
Melbourne, Australia


From: Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 01:16:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Sefirah counting

	As an aside to Mr. Himelstein's question about wording
differences in omer counting between askenazim and sephardim, it is
interesting to note that in the times of the early geonim, the bene
maarava (those in Israel) used to count both by day and at night,
apparantly with a beracha.


From: Jeff Fischer <NJGabbai@...>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 21:58:14 EDT
Subject: Shalom Aleichem on Friday night Chol Hamoed or 2nd days of Yom Tov

According to most Machzorim that I have seen and rabbis that i have
spoken to, we do say Shalom Aleichem and Ayshes Chayil on any Yom Tov
that falls on Shabbos with the exception of the Seder night. That is my


From: Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 01:16:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Shalom Aleichem on Friday night Chol Hamoed or 2nd days of Yom Tov

>There was discussion this year whether or not to sing Shalom Aleichem
>this past Friday night which coincided with the second days of Pesach.
>Part of the question centered on if singing Shalom Aleichem is halachic
>based or minhag. Any thoughts?

	Singing shalom aleichem anytime is problemmatic, esp. the verse
that begins barchuni leshalom, because we are not allowed to pray to
intrermediaries such as angels.  Rav Moshe Feinstein zz"l writes in one
of his teshuvot that in his father's house they used to leave out that

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
Ph 773-880-4187, Fax 773-880-8226


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 16:29:45 +0100
Subject: Sholom Aleichem when Friday night is YomTov etc

Rachi Messing raised the following very interesting question:
>There was discussion this year whether or not to sing Shalom Aleichem
>this past Friday night which coincided with the second days of Pesach.
>Part of the question centered on if singing Shalom Aleichem is halachic
>based or minhag. Any thoughts?

There are many customs in this respect.
1 Some people sing/say Sholom Aleichem (ShA) every Friday night, 
irrespective of whether it is YomTov or not.
2 There is a widespread custom not to say ShA on Friday night which 
is Yom Kipur or the seider night, but otherwise to say it every 
Friday night.
3 Another custom omits it on YomTov in common with all the Shabos 
zmiroth, which are  not sung on YomTov (just like the Shmone Esrei 
for sahbbos is not said on Shabos-YomTov)
4 The Sheim MiShmueil has a piece which explains the custom of 
omitting ShA on Shabos Chol hamoeid Sukoth. It is clearly implied 
that ShA **is** said on Sh. Ch. hamoeid Pesach.

Of course that is not the end of the story.
1 It is usual to omit Eishes Chayil whenever ShA is omitted.

2 Some have the custom of saying Riboin ho-oilomim (printed in many 
sidurim) after ShA. However, when the short kabolas Shabos is said 
(YomTov, erev YomTov, Ch Ham) they say only the first paragraph of 
Riboin (until " melekh tomim darkoi")

However, if you look at Rabbi Yaakov Emden's sidur, he suggest that 
just as we no longer say any of the other passages mentioned in 
Chazal which refer to angels, likewise we should not say Sha.  Ever.

Perets Mett


From: Ari Kahn <kahnar@...>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:26:13 +0200
Subject: RE: Tapes of Shiur by Rabbi Berkowitz

The Rabbi Gold in Question is Shalom Gold the Rabbi Berkowitz is
Yitzchak.  The tapes are not available, I know both men, and this issue
caused a lot of damage and bad feeling. Rav Berkowitz gave a class that
he did not know was being taped and explained why the chareidi community
does not accept Zionism or Yom Haatzmaut. The tape was made public
inadvertently, Rav Gold cut and spliced the tape and responded point by
point. The cutting apparently unintentionally made some of the points
sound more extreme than the original. I heard both tapes. There was
someone in Israel years ago who tried to publicize this as much as
possible. Rav Berkowitz asked that his tapes be suppressed. (I may have
them some place at home - but better to leave it). Rav Berkowitz is a
well know possek in Israel an considered an expert in the realm of
loshen hara (he is the halachik authority in the book on loshen hara "a
lesson a day") as well as other areas of halacha.

Ari Kahn


From: Menashe Elyashiv <elyashm@...>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:55:18 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Yom Tov & Shabbat

When Yom Tov & Shabbat fall together the Sefardi minhag is to say the
Shalom Alechem, Eshet Hayil, Zohar, etc. Execpt on Rosh Hashana or seder
night when parts are skipped because of the Pesah seder or R"H siman tov
eating (Ben Ish Hai in Sod Yesharim) Kabbalt Shabbat is said as usual but
Shir Ha'Shirim is usual not said.
Elokanu V'Elokai Avotanu - the old Sefardic minhag was not to say it at
all on Shabbat Yom Tov (see the Levorno mahzorim) It creeped into the
mahzorim because the Iraqi minhag was to say it - and the most mahzorim in
the 50's until the 80's in Israel were printed by Iraqi printers. So now
anyone saying it is sure that it is correct - this Pesah the Shaliah
Sibbur used an old mahzor & didn't say it & caused an uproar... my
explanations fell on deaf ears....
(R' Uzeail, Yosef, have a teshuva on this & R' Halevi discusses it in his
Makor Hayim)


From: Jeff Fischer <NJGabbai@...>
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 22:03:51 EDT
Subject: Re: Yomtov Tefillah

While my minhag is not to say "Elokeinu Veilokei Avoteinu" on a weekday,
now that I read the translation of the sentence, I see why people do say
"Elokeinu Veilokei Avoteinu" on weekdays in addition to Shabbos.  It
most likely was an error on the publisher's part, that it was included
in the parenthesis


From: Nachum Chernofsky <nachumc@...>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:55:12 +0200
Subject: Request: Apartment rental

If anyone knows of a one bedroom apartment for rent in Har Nof for a year,
kindly contact Nachum at <nachumc@...>



From: <Sr9111@...>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:50:34 EDT
Subject: Request: Apt. in New York

I hope that this is not too inappropriate for this list.  My mother, a
resident of Chicago, is looking to sublease an apartment (with a kosher
kitchen if at all possible) on the Upper West side of Manhattan for the
months of July-August 2001.

Anyone with any leads, please e-mail me at <sr9111@...>

Thank You and Tizku L'mitzvos!


End of Volume 34 Issue 39