Volume 34 Number 43
                 Produced: Fri May 11  8:50:34 US/Eastern 2001

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Candy at an Aufruf (2)
         [Janice Gelb, Rose Landowne]
Death of Infant  of Dovid HaMelech
         [Len Mansky]
         [Ben Katz]
Rabanon overriding D'orisa
         [Ira Walfish]
S"fira Question
         [Art Roth]
Shabbat & Yom Tov -- Slight correction
         [Arieh Kadosh]
Shalom Alechem
Tefilla question - Phraseology
         [Boruch Merzel]
TVSLBO in Secular Academic Books
         [Art Werschulz]
Two Days Yom Toiv While In Israel
         [Chaim Wasserman]
Yom Tov Sheni Book (2)
         [Andy Goldfinger, Y. Askotzky]
Yom Tov Sheni for a visitor to Erets Yisrael
         [Edward Ehrlich]


From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:56:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Candy at an Aufruf

 Jeanette Friedman <FriedmanJ@...> wrote:
>  And throwing hard, wrapped candy...does that mean you can hit
> someone in the noggin? I remember when there were aufrufs in the Agudah
> in Crown Heights, they would throw the stuff hard and aim for the head,
> especially on Simchas Torah. Never did like that idea very much....

I wasn't there to see it unfortunately, but my ex-husband snuck a pink
construction hat behind the shtender before services for the aufruf and
stuck it on his head right after the bracha :->

Also, a friend of mine while serving as gabbai once had a very expensive
watch crystal broken by a hard candy thrown for an aufruf.

-- Janice

From: Rose Landowne <ROSELANDOW@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 18:06:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Candy at an Aufruf

I think the toasted wheat kernels were distributed to the children, because 
the Gemara cites it in validating the testimony of one is an adult, but who 
was a child at the time, but remembers the distribution at the wedding. 

Rose Landowne


From: Len Mansky <Len613@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:41:40 EDT
Subject: Death of Infant  of Dovid HaMelech

The Torah makes clear that children shall not be punished for sins of
the parents; in Ezekiel Ch. 18, Jeremiah 31:29, 2 Kings 14:6, 2
Chron. 25:4.

After David's sin with Bathsheva and Uziah he is forgiven (2
Sam. 12:13). Yet hs infant, born to Bathsheva, dies as punishment
(ibid., 12:14).

Can someone please explain the conflicts?

Len Mansky


From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:46:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Learning

>From: Frank Reiss <freiss47@...>
>I have been attending shiurim in my Schule on a regular basis for about 6
>Twice I have asked for classes in Navi in our Schule and got a polite
>no for an answer.
>My question is, is this the way it is, and should I stop
>asking, or do I have a valid point?

       Mr. Reiss raises many interesting points.  I too love Nach and wind
up studying it mainly on my own.  The Talmudic idea that one should spend
1/3 of your learning on mikra clearly has fallen by the wayside.   (The
claim that the mikra quoted in gemara makes you kill two birds with one
stone is absurd, because one cannot study anything reading isolated verse
fragments out of order.)  
        While the yeshiva world looks down on Nach, the fact of the matter
is it is hard and complex.  The Hebrew is difficult in many cases, as are
the concepts in many of the seforim (e.g., Iyov or Yechezkel).  I have often
quoted verses from Nach and have had rabbis doubt that such a verse existed!
In the 19th century, Nach and Hebrew were also studied by maskilim which
gave these topics a "bad" reputation.
        Keep at it, although most rabbis (I have found) are not trained in
Nach and therefore are not comfortable teaching it.

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
Ph. 773-880-4187, Fax 773-880-8226


From: Ira Walfish <Ira.Walfish@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 13:12:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Rabanon overriding D'orisa

I am completing a siyum on Sukos (gemarrah) and as part of my siyum am
interested in finding examples of areas in which the Rabbis rule that if
one does not fulfill a d'rabonin ruling, they are not yotzei
(fulfilling) the d'orisa commandment (even if they actual DID the
d'orisa commandment).

Two examples - 1) Rabbanu Yonah (Brachot on the first mishnah) discusses
that one may not fulfill the mitzvah of Kriat Shma, if Kriat Shma is
said at night after Chatzot.  So in this case, one is fulfulling the
d'orisa by reading kriat shma, but the rabbis were concerned that one
would delay until morning, at which point it would be too late.

2) In Sukos, Beit Shama holds that if the table is outside the sukah,
even in a large sukkah (i.e. one which meets the proper measurements),
it is as if one does not fulfill the mitzvah of sukkah.  Again, this is
a case of doing the mitvah d'orisa (having a sukka) but the rabbis have
added a stipulation and if not fulfilled, negates the d'orisa.

Please note that in either case I am not suggesting what the halacha is!
I am simply looking for examples of cases where there are opinions (by
rishonim, achronim, etc.) suggesting that if the d'rabonin is not
fulfilled the d'orisa is not fulfilled.

One final note - I am not as interested in the "shev v'al taasei" (sit
and don't do) cases - i.e. where the rabbis suggest not to do something,
even thought there is a d'orisa suggesting we do it (e.x. using a lulav
on shabbos).  These cases are somewhat different as they are not really
dealing with a d'rabonin adding something as opposed to not doing

Thanks for any help one can give me.

Ira Walfish


From: Art Roth <AJROTH@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:04:44 -0500
Subject: S"fira Question

It is well known that if you forgot to count s"fira one night, you may
count without a b"rakha during daylight hours the next day, and then
continue counting with a b"rakha on subsequent nights.

I've often wondered (though it's unlikely to ever happen in practice)
what happens late on a Friday afternoon if you have accepted Shabbat
early (and davened Qabalat Shabbat and Ma`ariv), but it is still before
sunset and you suddenly remember that you forgot to count on Thursday
night.  On one hand, counting at that point would be somewhat of a
contradiction because how can you count one day when you have already
accepted the next day in both thought and deed?  On the other hand,
maybe s"fira depends only on the cycle of dark/light outside and has
nothing at all to do with Shabbat.

Can anyone shed any light on this?  I've looked in various sources and
have never seen this question addressed.

Art Roth


From: Arieh Kadosh <akadoch@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:24:59 -0400
Subject: Shabbat & Yom Tov -- Slight correction

	Mizmor Shir LeYom HaShabbat is Psalm 92 and NOT Psalm 90 as
previously stated.  My sincerest apologies for any confusion.

Arieh Kadosh


From: <icaspi@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:08:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Shalom Alechem

The discussion re: Shalom Alechem reminds me that I have been seeking an
explanation for the custom of repeating each verse 3 times.  To date,
other than a shrug of the shoulders, the only suggestion has been that
it is somehow related to the concept of the 2 malachim who accompany a
Jew to his home from shul on Friday nights.  This would seem to explain
2 repetitions (one for each malach) but not 3 repetitions).

Any ideas?


From: Boruch Merzel <BoJoM@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:54:05 EDT
Subject: Re: Tefilla question - Phraseology

Mark Symons writes: << The reference to Shochein Ad reminds me of
 something else about this. It bothers me that in the traditional
 ashkenaz melody for Shabbat, the division into phrases has Shochein Ad
 Marom as one phrase, and V'Kadosh Sh'mo as the next phrase, which seems
 to go against the meaning.  >>

The traditional Ashkenaz nusach does not break the phrasing in this manner.  
In seven decades of davening I have heard it done that way very seldom and 
only by the most ignorant of baalei t'filah.  The proper Nusach chant  would 
be: "Shochein ad" (He who abides forever) "Morom V'kodosh shmo" (exalted and 
holy is His name) and the melody flows perfectly with the meaning.
Boruch Merzel


From: Art Werschulz <agw@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:56:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: TVSLBO in Secular Academic Books


The first book of *any* sort that I had seen with a B"H and a TBSLB"O
was the following, from which I studied in graduate school (1973):

  author    = {Martin Shechter},
  title     = {Principles of Functionl Analysis},
  publisher = {Academic Press},
  year      = {1971},
  address   = {New York}

(BTW, at the time, I had no idea what these acronyms meant.)
Prof. Schechter was on the faculty of YU's Belfer Graduate School at
the time.  I seem to recall seeing these acronyms on his other books,
but since I don't have copies of them, I can't say for sure.

The following books also have a B"H and an TVSLB"O.

  author =       {A. G. Werschulz},
  title =        {The Computational Complexity of Differential and
                  Integral Equations: An Information-Based Approach},
  publisher =    {Oxford University Press},
  year =         {1991},
  address =      {New York}

  author =       {J. F. Traub and A. G. Werschulz},
  title =        {Complexity and Information},
  publisher =    {Cambridge University Press},
  year =         1998,
  address =      {Cambridge}

Art Werschulz (8-{)}   "Metaphors be with you."  -- bumper sticker
GCS/M (GAT): d? -p+ c++ l u+(-) e--- m* s n+ h f g+ w+ t++ r- y? 
Internet: <agw@...><a href="http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~agw/">WWW</a>
ATTnet:   Columbia U. (212) 939-7061, Fordham U. (212) 636-6325


From: Chaim Wasserman <Chaimwass@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:41:08 EDT
Subject: Two Days Yom Toiv While In Israel

Further to the postings on second day Yom Tov while in Isrel, for those
who are interested in the matter, [1] SHuT Chacham Zvi indicates that
adding a second day would violate the Torah's admonition of Bal
Tosif. [2] In a definitive anecdotal biography of Rav Isser Zalman
Meltzer (R. Aharon Kotler's father-in-law) it is stated that he always
told boys coming from Europe to learn in Jerusalem that they observe one
day even though they will return. [3] As was mentioned in an earlier
posting the Shulchan Aruch haRav goes for one day. [4] The two day
chumra is invoked by R. Yosef Caro in his SHUT Avkat Rocheil as well as
in Shulchan Aruch.

If anyone interested in hard-copy of these sources can write me.

Chaim Wasserman
<chaimwass@ aol.com>


From: Andy Goldfinger <Andy.Goldfinger@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:39:45 -0400
Subject: Yom Tov Sheni Book

Shmuel Himelstein writes: 

"om Tov Sheni Kehilchato was written by Yerachmiel David Fried and
published in 5748 (1988) by Machon Sha'arei Ziv of Jerusalem. The
author's address (as of then) was listed as HaPisgah 36, Jerusalem, but
I only see a Yerachmiel Fried at HaPisgah 39 in the present Jerusalem
phone book. The book is over 300 pages long."

I believe the Rabbi Fried is currently living in Dallas, where he is
head of DATA, the Dallas Area Torah Association.  I believe the book was
written in close consultation with R. Shmuel Zalman Aurebach.

-- Andy Goldfinger

From: Y. Askotzky <sofer@...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:46:24 +0200
Subject: Yom Tov Sheni Book

*Rabbi* Fried, as he is a rabbi and talmid chacham, is the Rosh Kollel
of the Dallas Kollel. I know the kollel has a website so I am sure he
can be contacted or found with ease.


Rabbi Yerachmiel Askotzky, certified sofer and examiner
<sofer@...>   www.stam.net   1-888-404-STAM(7826)


From: Edward Ehrlich <eehrlich@...>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:31:17 +0300
Subject: Yom Tov Sheni for a visitor to Erets Yisrael

I would like to add a few comments to Immanuel O'Levy's
<iburton@...> excellent message on Yom Tov Sheni for a visitor
to Eretz Yisrael.

I once heard that Rabbi Kook ruled that visitors to Eretz Yisrael should
follow the local custom and not observe Yom Tov Shenii because it should
be assumed that they will make Aliyah and stay permanently in the
country.  If Rabbi Kook made such a ruling it apparently has never been
widely observed.

> The Shul where I daven in England employs a Chazan from Israel for the
> Yomim Tovim, and he conducts the davenning on the second day also.

There was a great difficulty in gathering a minyan for the Yom Tov Sheni
of Pesah in the synagogue in Tokyo, Japan.  Many of the congregants
returned home for this period and the congregation had a large number of
Israelis who did not attend service that day.  The rabbi at the time I
attended services there was Israeli and I was told that he came to
services on the second day.  But I think he also put on tefilin before
coming to services.

Ed Ehrlich <eehrlich@...>
Jerusalem, Israel


End of Volume 34 Issue 43