Volume 35 Number 67
                 Produced: Mon Nov 19  7:21:30 US/Eastern 2001

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Book on Kashrus
         [Harry Weiss]
Concerts during Aveilus
         [Bob Kosovsky]
Dt04-15: Bible explicitly says God has no body!!!!(Not Rambam)
         [Ralph Zwier]
Grape Juice
         [Wendy Baker]
Mourners leading prayers
         [Larry Israel]
Our personal Seudat Hodaya
         [Shimon Lebowitz]
Poultry Trial (2)
         [Barak Greenfield, Janice Gelb]
Rambams 13 principles of faith EXPLICITLY in Torah
         [Zev Sero]
         [David Ziants]


From: Harry Weiss <hjweiss@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:26:30 -0800
Subject: Book on Kashrus

> From: Shoshana Ziskind <shoshele@...>
> What we'd like is something with more practical everyday examples as
> well as more practical down to earth language.  What was really good
> about learning kashrus at the woman's yeshiva we both went to in Israel
> (Machon Alte which I highly reccomend) our teacher would always have
> real life kashrus examples to make it clear.

There is the book, "Is It Kosher" by Rabbi Eliezer Eidlitz.  See
http://www.kosherquest.org for more information.

I found it simple and excellent.


From: <kos@...> (Bob Kosovsky)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:12:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Concerts during Aveilus

When I was an avel I asked my rav for a psak on practical issues.  I
teach music, am a music librarian, and occasionally play piano publicly
to accompany musicians.  So I asked my rav, Rabbi Jacob Posen, of K'hal
Adath Jeshurun ("Breuer's) in Washington Heights, New York.

I asked the question about how do I, as an avel, limit various
activities that involve music, including listening, concerts, teaching,
reading, and so on.  He responded very simply: "Anything you do that
involves learning things musical, that is permitted."  When I tried to
bring up exceptions, or questioned who is doing the learning, or worried
about the notion of "enjoyment," he interrupted me, responding with the
same psak.

 From this I understood that it was permitted for me to engage in any
musical activity where it is possible to learn something (no matter who
is doing the learning).  Since I feel that, in any interaction with
music, one *always* learns something, that made the answer clear to me.

So although I continued with my musical activities unabated (listening
to recordings, playing, attending concerts, etc.), the one thing I did
differently was being conscious of learning something from each of these
activities.  That made them all the more potent and appreciated.

Bob Kosovsky -- Librarian
Music Division, The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts
<kos@...>                                    bkosovsky@nypl.org
    Listowner: <OPERA-L@...> ; smt-list@smt.ucsb.edu
                    Administrivia to: <rjkgc@...>


From: Ralph Zwier <silver@...>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:53:23 +1100
Subject: Re: Dt04-15: Bible explicitly says God has no body!!!!(Not Rambam)

Devarim 4-15

I would take issue with Russell on this verse and similar passages
esp. the second commandment. In ALL these passages the Torah words
itself oddly: "You SAW no image ..." "You shall not make an image".  It
does not actually say that G-d does not have an image.

The Chumash itself leaves open the question of whether there IS or ISN'T
a physical body.

Similarly, the Chumash itself uses parts of the body in descriptions of
G-d's actions apparently without any sense of difficulty or
problem. Only later do we need commentators to reassure us that these
passages are not to be taken literally. AFAIK there is no passage in
Chumash which clearly says that G-d's arm, finger, hand and so on are to
be taken metaphorically.

It seems to me that from the Chumash alone one could hold that G-d has
an image so long as we do not represent it in any way.

Ralph Zwier                        Voice    61 3 9521 2188
Double Z Computer                    Fax    61 3 9521 3945


From: Wendy Baker <wbaker@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:18:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Grape Juice

Just a historical note here.  In my youth in the 1940's and 50's
everyone drank Welch's grape juice and ate grape jelly and didn't use
grape juice for kiddush.  Now it's quite the other way.  What happened?
Another historical change-For Pesach, everyone used peanut oil.  Now I
am told not to use it.  Again, what happened?

Wendy Baker

> From: Joseph Mosseri <JMosseri@...>
> Can anybody help clarify this issue.
> I've studied the halakhot of Yayin Nesekh and Setam Yenam in the Gemara,
> Rambam, Tour, Bet Yosef, and numerous commentators  and I can not seem to
> find any source for the current practice in the kashrut arena to forbid
> any grape derived products. Be they juice, flavoring, coloring, etc..
> What gives? What is this based upon?


From: Larry Israel <VSLARRY@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 01 17:28:17 +0200
Subject: Mourners leading prayers

I have noticed that in our congregation mourners for their parents who
are no longer saying Qaddish, but are still in the year of mourning, do
not lead the prayers when others who are still saying Qaddish are

Is there some kind of lessening of the Hiyuv after eleven months?


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:16:06 +0200
Subject: Our personal Seudat Hodaya

Dear mail-jewish friends,

As long as the subject of Seudot Hodaya is being discussed, I will take
this opportunity to mention the one we made very recently. Hopefully, my
telling the wider m-j community, will increase 'kvod shamayim' (the
honor of G-d) and be part of my expression of gratitude to haShem for
His miracles.

On Sunday, the 18th of Cheshvan (4/11/01) my 11 year old son was on the
way home from his talmud torah in Pisgat Ze'ev, on the #25 bus, when it
was attacked by an arab terrorist with an M-16. If anyone didn't hear
about this attack, you can read about it at:
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/11/05/News/News.37506.html (Jerusalem
Post, 05/11/01), and at:
(cnn.com, 04/11/01).

In spite of his sitting on the steps of the door, and clearly seeing the
attacker outside shooting at the bus (and seeing the gun aimed at
himself), haShem saved him from all injury.

Other than a tiny scratch (about 1mm), and a head full of glass slivers
from exploding windows, he was totally unharmed (physically). We pray
that he has suffered no other harm either, so far he seems fine.

We were told (by our Rav) that as a minor, neither he nor his father
(me) has to say Birkat haGomel, but we immediately decided to make a
Seudat Hodaya. A schoolmate of his who was in the same bus also
participated, along with relatives, friends, and his school
principle. He led us in reciting Tehillim 107, divrei torah were spoken,
and songs of thanksgiving were sung.

As a friend said to my wife: "you received a son as a gift!", and we can
only repeat our gratitude, and give thanks and praise to haShem.

Shabbat shalom,
Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://shimonl.findhere.org/PGP/


From: Barak Greenfield <DocBJG@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:17:59 -0500
Subject: Poultry Trial

Henry Cohen <hcohen9@...> writes:
> I recently asked whether anyone knew about a trial of kosher butchers
> which took place in new york in the 20's or 30's. I did get some
> detailed replies , however none was the one my friend 's mother
> participated in as a tranalator in the early 30's . I have since seen
> the drawings with yiddish writing which were given to her. It involved
> the schechter poultry company. Is anyone familiar with this trial?

You are possibly referring to United States v. A.L.A. Schechter Poultry
Corporation, 1934. Schechter (including its market and owners) was
convicted of violating various sections of the National Industrial
Recovery Act (part of FDR's New Deal) relating to wages, work hours, and
poultry fitness. The conviction was overturned the following year by the
US Supreme Court on constitutional grounds, invalidating the NIRA.

Barak Greenfield

From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:03:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Poultry Trial

Here is a precis of the case from one of the URLs in the 
list that follows. The case does not appear to have anything 
to do with kashrut but rather with interstate commerce. 

   Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, 295
   U.S. 495 (1935) (the sick chicken case.)

   Schechter processed chickens locally and sold
   them to kosher markets in NYC. He was convicted of 
   federal laws concerning slaughtering and selling of 
   poultry. He challenged on the grounds that the 
   federal laws were an unconstitutional delegation of
   congressional authority, that Congress was in effect
   regulating intrastate commerce, and that the laws 
   violated his Fifth Amendment due process rights. 

   The Supreme Court reversed the conviction.

See the following URLs, which provide more extensive 


-- Janice


From: Zev Sero <Zev@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:53:09 -0500
Subject: RE: Rambams 13 principles of faith EXPLICITLY in Torah

<rhendel@...> (Russell Jay Hendel) wrote:
> Bernard Raab <beraab@...> in v35n57 explicitly (grin) asks me:

>>> In passing the so-called 13 principles of faith were not produced
>>> by Maimonidees. They ALL explicitly occur in the Bible: Thus the
>>> 1st decalogue mentions the existence of God and the prohibition
>>> of Idolatry.

>> What about the 13th; the belief in the coming of "ha-moshiach".
>> Remember; you said "explicitly".

(He meant, of course, the 12th)

> This is a good question. What is mentioned explicitly is the
> MESSIANIC ERA. So the king during that Messianic era would be
> the Messiah. Here are the details.
> (A) It explicitly mentions the possibility of >God widening
> our borders which would necessitate 9 Refuge cities< (not 6)
> (Cf Dt19-08 vs Nu35-13). (B) Furthermore it explicitly says that
> we will eventually inherit 10 lands (not just 7) (Compare Gn15-19:21
> vs the traditional promise of 7 nations eg Dt07-01). (C) Finally it
> explicitly mentions that the exiles will be gathered and we will
> have a new heart in doing commandments (eg Dt30-01:10)
> Bottom line: The above says there will be an era when we will all
> return to Israel with a renewed committment to observe Torah and we
> will rule over 10 vs 7 lands.
> It seems reasonable to call this era the Messianic era. The king
> that reigned during that era is the Messiah.

The 12th principle, though, is not to believe in a messianic era but in
a messiah.  This person is mentioned *explicitly* in Bil'am's prophecy,
as the Rambam explains in *Hilchot* (not midrash) Melachim chapter 11;
it is from this prophecy that the Rambam derives the *halacha* that
someone who does not believe in a human messiah denies not just the
prophets but the Torah itself, and is therefore a heretic.

Zev Sero


From: David Ziants <dziants@...>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:17:05 +0200
Subject: Re: Shavers

Concerning the Philips/Norelco shavers of the 6000 series, and the
halachic problems according to the criteria described in volume 13 of
Techumin, Zomet have now announced the possibility of, through them,
purchasing a kit of replacement blades for these models that are
halachically acceptable.

I read about this in the current Shabbat B'Shabbato - Chayei Sarah 5762
e-mail edition which gives more details.  I could not find the
announcement on the WWW edition of this, but Zomet's WWW page is:

Of course there is also the p'sak of Rav Rabinovitz, who permits all
types of electric shavers. I still would like to hear of other poskim
who also lean in this direction.

Thank you for those who corrected me concerning the precise relationship
between R. Rappaport and R. Moshe Feinstein, as what I had taken from
their bulletin was less accurate.  (R. Rappaport is the author of the
article in Techumin.)

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel


End of Volume 35 Issue 67