Volume 36 Number 19
                 Produced: Tue Apr  9  5:58:34 US/Eastern 2002

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Baruch Hu U'Varuch Sh'mo
         [Jonathan Baker]
Chametz on Shabbat after Pesach
         [Michael Kahn]
Counting Sefira during the second Seder
         [Alan Friedenberg]
First Night of Sefirat ha'Omer in chu"l (3)
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu, Wendy Baker, Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz]
Holocaust and many children
         [Aliza Berger / Dov Cooper]
Kosher in Munich
         [Zev Gerstl]
New Database - Sudilkov, Ukraine
         [Paul Ginsburg]
Rabbi Israel Miller z"l
         [Jay Kalish]
Some fine details
         [Ira L. Jacobson]
Tal Umatar (2)
         [Mark Symons, SBA]
V'Ten Bracha
         [Yisrael and Batya Medad]


From: Jonathan Baker <jjbaker@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 09:48:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Baruch Hu U'Varuch Sh'mo

From: Seinfeld <block113@...>

> This would be consistent with the Gaon (as it should be), who holds
> that one should refrain from responding "Baruch Hu uMvuvuch Shmo" if
> saying it prevents one from hearing the full bracha from the Shatz
> (because, for instance, he doesn't pause long enough).

1) I don't see on the page in SA OH 124:5 where the Gaon rules thus.  He
doesn't seem to say anything there other than to cite the Gemara in Yoma
whence it cometh.

2) An alternate theory I've seen for the Gaon's avoidance of BHUb"S is
that there's a danger of missing the "u-" in "u-varuch", and thus it
could be a rallying cry for Sabbateans.  The Gematria of "Baruch Hu
Baruch Sh'mo" is 814, the same as "Shabtai Tzvi".  Source: Bezalel Naor,
"Post-Sabbatian Sabbatianism".

   - jon baker    <jjbaker@...>     <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker> -


From: Michael Kahn <mi_kahn@...>
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:30:12 -0400
Subject: Chametz on Shabbat after Pesach

Leah Gordon <leah@...> asked,
>...when Pesach starts onFriday night...our second chag is... in Israel 
> just Fri (with Sat being no longer Pesach).
>...Another .interesting question is whether (and if so, how) one could eat 
>*chometz* on this shabbat.

One could obtain chometz on Shabbos by receiving it from a non Jew. Chometz 
on Pesach is muksah (I assume). Therefor it would be forbiden to be eaten on 
the Shabbos following Pesach since it would still be muksah. This is because 
we have a rule that anything that is muksah during "bain hashmashos" (the 
twilight time near Friday night sunset) is muksah during the entire Shabbos 
("Migu daiskatsui bain hashmsos iskatsui lkula yoma"). Since one can't eat 
chametz during bain hashmashos of friday night, since it is a safek 
(questionable)if it is still Pesach, the chametz is muktsah during bain 
hashmashos, and therefor muksah for the entire Shabbos.

Yitzchok Kahn


From: Alan Friedenberg <elshpen@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 18:53:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Counting Sefira during the second Seder

The ArtScroll Haggadah quotes the Birkei Joseph who says that the Omer
should be counted at the end of the Seder.  In addition, the Haggadah
says that the bracha is put there for those who may not have been in
shule to daven with a minyan.

Alan Friedenberg


From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 10:19:23 EDT
Subject: First Night of Sefirat ha'Omer in chu"l

David Cohen (MJv36n18) asks why would some Haggadot include the counting
of the Omer (for the second Seder) when it was supposed to have been
said in the shul already (Hutz leAretz).

Two reasons come to mind. In some shuls they daven early, and maybe they
felt that it was too early for the proper time of counting, so it was
done again during the seder when it was not too early. It was always a
point to start the Seder as early as possible for the children (and
tired mothers). The second reason is that it is said for guests who
"missed" shul for whatever reason. It is less likely to be <<perhaps it
was just inserted in the Haggadah in case people forgot to count after
Ma'ariv>> , as on the first count people were less likely to forget.

In some shuls Hallel Shalem is said in Ma'ariv, and again it is repeat
in the Haggadah. The two issues might have some parallels.

Gilad J. Gevaryahu

From: Wendy Baker <wbaker@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 12:05:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: First Night of Sefirat ha'Omer in chu"l

> From: David E Cohen <ddcohen@...>
> A number of haggadot include the counting of the first night of the Omer
> at the end of the second seder, in the "nirtzah" section.  According to
> a footnote in the Siddur Eizor Eiliyahu, this was the case in many very
> old haggadot as well.
> I am always in the same place on the second night of Pesach, and they
> count the Omer in shul after ma'ariv, just like any other night.  I am
> turning to the wide body of mail-jewish readers to ask to if there are
> places (outside of Israel, of course) where the custom is not to count
> in shul that night, so that people should wait and do it later at the
> seder.

Just a question and thought about this.  Are women obligated to count
the omer or are they exempt through shehazeman gramma [Positive
commandment that is time based]?  How many women, particularly if
hostessing a seder, get to shul erev Pesach?  Doesn't having the
counting in the in the Haggada cover them, even if it is done at shul?

Wendy Baker

From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <Sabba.Hillel@...>
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 16:39:19 -0400
Subject: Re: First Night of Sefirat ha'Omer in chu"l

I had learned of this custom in school (many years ago (:-)) and the
reason given (for waiting until the very end) was as you postulated.
However, it was pointed out that many shuls will say the omer after
ma'ariv since by the time one gets to that point in the seder, it is
quite possible that one would forget to count at all.  I thought that it
would "never happen to me" until the night of the seder when the
children were up and down, one was sick, ... and we fell asleep right
after the seder, without counting omer.  Since then, I have followed the
custom of our shul and counted with the shul (and our rabbi) after

Additionally, it is considered better to count with a minyon (B'rov Am
Hadras Melech).

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz
<sabbahem@...>, Sabba.Hillel@verizon.net


From: Aliza Berger / Dov Cooper <alizadov@...>
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:45:48 +0200
Subject: Holocaust and many children

Does anyone know of written sources for the idea that Jews should have many
children to "replace" those lost in the Holocaust?

Aliza Berger
Betar 22/1 - Jerusalem 93386  Israel
Home: +972 2 671-2955
Mobile: +972 55 323-948 (A)  +972 54 722-948 (D)


From: Zev Gerstl <zgerstl@...>
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 07:35:17 +0200
Subject: Kosher in Munich

I will be attending a conference in Munich and the organizers want to
supply me with kosher food from Cohen's Restaurant. I did not find it in
the database of kosher restaurants although it did pop up on the net but
no hashgacha is listed.  Is anyone familiar with this place? I've always
eaten at the restaurant in the main schul but the one recommended is
closer to the conference. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 Zev Gerstl


From: Paul Ginsburg <GinsburgP@...>
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:05:07 -0500 
Subject: New Database - Sudilkov, Ukraine

I am pleased to announce the creation of the Sudilkov Database.  This
database contains listings for all known Jewish residents of Sudilkov,
Ukraine. Information contained in the database will be made available
after an initial data entry phase.

Sudilkov, Ukraine does not have a yizkor book.  The database will be a
step forward towards the creation of a yizkor book for this shtetl in
the future.

This database now contains less than 50 records.  A thorough analytical
study of Sudilkov's Jewish community can only be accomplished with many
database records.  I will need the help of all people who have roots in
the shtetl of Sudilkov in order to increase the number of entries.
(This database will not be posted on the Sudilkov internet website so
you do not have to worry about privacy issues.)

For each of your Sudilkov relatives, please provide the following

Last Name [Surname] in Sudilkov
First Name in Sudilkov
Maiden Name [if applicable]
Last Name [Surname] (after immigration)
First Name (after immigration)
Father's Name
Mother's Name
Birthdate (year of birth)
Number of Siblings
Occupation in Sudilkov
Occupation after immigration
Was this person killed during the Holocaust?
Route of Emigration (through Hamburg, Liverpool?)
Name of Ship
Year of Immigration
Port of Entry
Place of Residence
Spouse's Name
Children's Names
Date of Death
Place of Death
Place of Burial

Thank you for your support to this project to keep the memory of the
shtetl of Sudilkov alive!

Paul W. Ginsburg
Sudilkov Online Landmanshaft
Rockville, Maryland 


From: Jay Kalish <jay@...>
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:51:00 +0200
Subject: Rabbi Israel Miller z"l

I am trying to collect stories regarding my father in law, Rabbi Israel
Miller z"l, so that we can share this with his family, children and
great grandchildren.  Despite many requests from the family to write his
memoirs, he declined to do so, as he was a doer and remained active
until just a few weeks before his passing.  We would be looking for
first hand stories in the following categories at a minimum: Pulpit
Rabbi, YU (his role, stories from students), US politics, Israeli
politics (as well as related to US-Israel relations), Soviet Jewry
activities, President's Conference, Claims Conference, as well as the
many other "volunteer" activities which he undertook.  This is not an
exhaustive list of his accomplishments, but a starting point.  We would
also like to spread this message to as many political figures as
possible in order to get their first hand stories of my father in law's
many contributions as well as having an insider picture on his intimate
relationships with major political figures, including US presidents from
Johnson through Clinton.

I would appreciate if you could send the stories directly to me at

Many thanks.

Jay Kalish
CEO - J.C. Technologies Ltd. - 21 Havaad Haleumi Street
Jerusalem 91160, Israel
Tel: +972-675-1232 ; Fax: +972-2-675-1195
email: <jay@...> ; Web site: www.jctech.co.il


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:10:14 +0300
Subject: Some fine details

I wish to make some small corrections to some otherwise wonderful recent
posts.  Pardon my attention to detail.

      As such, stopping saying Tal Umatar early would not be
      sincere, and it is said until the first day of Pessach, which
      is the end of the rainy season.

Actually, Tal umatar is recited until _erev_ Pessah.

      Motzei Chag Rishon of Pesach

Pessah is a seven-day hag, and motza'ei hag occurs at the end of the
seven days.  There is no "hag rishon" or "hag sheni," unless, of course,
one refers to Pessah Sheni.



From: Mark Symons <msymons@...>
Subject: Tal Umatar

Why are the references to dew and rain in G'vurot (Morid HaTal and
Mashiv Haruach U'Morid HaGeshem) said at different times of the year,
whereas in Birkat HaShanim (V'Ten Tal U'Matar) they come together? Ie
why not say VeTen Tal when you say Morid HaTal and VeTen Matar when you
say Mashiv Haruach UMorid HaGeshem?

Mark Symons
Melbourne, Australia

From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:26:26 +1000
Subject: Tal Umatar

> Michael J Savitz correctly states that, in Israel, Tal Umatar begins to
> be said two weeks after Shmeeni Atzeret in order to give the Pilgrims
> time to return home in dry weather. He asks, by this logic, why don't we
> stop saying tal umatar two weeks before Pessach?

The original question: "why don't we stop saying tal umotor two weeks
before Pessach?" seems so logical that I surprised that no rishon or
acharon (at least those that I have looked up) brings it.

Whilst 'researching' this over YT, I noticed that the Shiltei Hagiborim
says that since the Churban and us no longer having Aliyah Leregel, those
in EY should start saying Tal uMotor immediately after Sukkos. But the OH
clearly says that there is not change.



From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:49:30 +0200
Subject: V'Ten Bracha

      I accept the Yashe Koach of
      From: Baruch J. Schwartz <schwrtz@...> 
>Yishar koah to Yisrael Medad for referring MJ readers the little-known
>comment of the Mishnah Berurah regarding the ostensible
>impropriety of announcing veten berachah on the first night it is said,

and give full credit to Rav Daniel Blumhoff who discussed it with me.
      However his summation, at the end, that:

>In my view there is therefore ample reason to diverge from the
>suggestion of the Mishnah Berurah, to accept the psak of Rav Kanievksy,
>and to have the gabbai announce veten berachah. This is the
>practice in our shul...Rimon Central Synagogue, Efrat

is still up for grabs.

The MB there doesn't say "don't announce", but that the announcement
should be one that does not appear lacking in gratitude.  Therefore,
putting up a note and then maybe just making a 'klop' without shouting
out "v'ten bracha" would be enough.

Yisrael Medad


End of Volume 36 Issue 19