Volume 36 Number 23
                 Produced: Wed Apr 17  0:08:23 US/Eastern 2002

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Baruch Hu U'Varuch Sh'mo (2)
         [Daniel M Wells, Jonathan & Randy Chipman]
Bee allergic people and Shabbat
         [Beth and David Cohen]
Chazarat Ha-Shatz
         [Eli Turkel]
First Night of Sefirat ha'Omer in chu"l
         [Joshua Hosseinof]
Hallel on Yom ha-Atzmaut
         [David Glasner]
Rav Soloveichik and Lubavicher Rebbe
         [Naftoli Biber]
Reason for (not) allowing Minors to Lein
Should reasons for a Custom lead to behavior changes
         [Russell Jay Hendel]
Tefillin shel rabbeynu Tam
         [Harold Greenberg]
Why Rav Hirschs Translation of Tehillim is so Good
         [Frank Silbermann]
Yiddish Chad Gadya (2)
         [Reuben Rudman, Joshua Hosseinof]
Yiddish Hagadah


From: Daniel M Wells <wells@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:18:28 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: Re: Baruch Hu U'Varuch Sh'mo

> does not wait for people to finish saying it, and he thereby misses
> [hearing a word or two] of the repetition of the Prayer."

I often wondered why the MB is upset at the minhag of the Shatz to say
the first part of 'Modim' quietly since the tzibur are saying at the
same time Modim DeRabanan and therefore missing the those initial


From: Jonathan & Randy Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:57:00 +0300
Subject: Re: Baruch Hu U'Varuch Sh'mo

Daniel M Wells wrote:
> I often wondered why the MB is upset at the minhag of the Shatz to say the
> first part of 'Modim' quietly since the tzibur are saying at the same time
> Modim DeRabanan and therefore missing the those initial words...

Good point.  In fact, there is a tendency today in many places,
particularly those influenced in one way or another by the yeshivah
world, for the Baal Tefillah to recite all of Modim aloud, often waiting
a few seconds and saying the opening words, "Modim anahnu lakh" real
slowly, so that by then people will have finished Modim Derabanan and
can hear the rest of his Modim.

      Bivirkat hagsameah,
      Yehonatn Chipaman


From: Beth and David Cohen <bdcohen@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:38:40 -0400
Subject: Bee allergic people and Shabbat

RJ Hendel wrote:
<<I have a further question: (c) Should we allow this person to take walks
and leave his house on Shabbath!?!? This is not an absurd
question. After all we concede that he might die if stung and was not
attended to. Maybe taking a walk is considered placing his life in
unnecessary danger.  The only counterargument I see now is the argument
that it is too much of a burden to stay inside on Shabbath: But this
clearly is not that strong an argument.>>

While I cannot comment specifically on this issue, I do know that Rav SZ
Auerbach zt"l once asked the Tzomet Institute in Alon Shevut to develop,
with his help, a Shabbat usable electric wheel chair, for a disabled
neighbor who was confined to his apartment every Shabbat.

We can at least deduce that one should try to find a way to let people go
outside on Shabbat, as part of oneg shabbat.

David I. Cohen


From: Eli Turkel <turkel@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:34:19 GMT
Subject: Chazarat Ha-Shatz

<As I was at least one of those members bringing up the opinion of
Rav Soloveichik, the possible innovation is in defining the Hazarat
ha-Shatz as a "Tefillat HA-Tzibur", not just a repitition of the
individual Amedah, but rather a new and different tefila that the
entire tzibur was part of and as such needed to be yotzei in. There
is no question in my mind that this is based on earlier sources, in
particular the Rav's interpretation of the Rambam, but I am unaware
of other contemporary poskim viewing the Hazarat ha-Shatz in the same

Just to emphasize this is the Rav's interpretation of Rambam in Yad
Chazakah. In his teshuvot the Rambam clearly downplays the role of
Hazarat hashatz


From: Joshua Hosseinof <jh@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:46:21 -0400
Subject: First Night of Sefirat ha'Omer in chu"l

Saying the first counting of the Sefirat Ha'omer outside of Israel after
the 2nd night's seder is primarily a Chasidic custom, with maybe a few
individual Sefardim who may follow this practice as well.  The Chi"da
records that this was the custom in his time.  This was also the
personal custom of the Ben Ish Chai's family, but that he did not want
to change the custom in Bagdad to recite the 1st night Sefirat Haomer in
Shul because some people might forget after the seder.

There are few reasons why one should recite the 1st night's omer after
the seder and several reasons why not to do so.  One conceptual reason
why to count after the seder is that the Sefirah is supposed to be
counting the days from leaving Egypt until getting the Torah.  How can
you count the first night's omer and then go back and "leave Egypt"
(i.e. have the 2nd seder) all over again?

Reasons against saying it after the seder include:
1. You might forget (very possible after 4 cups of wine)
2. You're not supposed to eat anything before reciting the omer
3. The principle of requiring the Sefirat Ha'omer to be 7 complete 
weeks.  We are very strict about the first night of Shavuot of not 
saying kiddush until nightfall so that the counting of the omer will be 
7 complete ("temimot") weeks.  We should likewise be strict on the 
second night of Pesach to recite the Omer as early as possible at night, 
so that it will be 7 complete weeks from the beginning end as well - 
although in practice this should mean saying the 1st night's omer at 
twilight - which most Ashkenazic shuls will not do because they will not 
daven Maariv for the second night of Yom Tov before nightfall.


From: David Glasner <dglasner@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:25:03 -0400
Subject: Hallel on Yom ha-Atzmaut

As it is almost Yom ha-Atzma'ut I thought that I might refer chaveirim
to my translation of the teshuvah of my grandfather, R. Akiva Glasner,
son and successor of the Dor Revi'i in Klausenburg, on the religious
significance of Yom ha-Atzma'ut and whether Hallel should be said.  Go
to the Dor Revi'i website, www.dorrevii.org, and follow the link.

I had hoped to have completed my translation of the Dor Revi'i's essay
on Zionism to be posted on the Dor Revi'i website in time for Yom
ha-Atzma'ut, but, alas, though I have completed a first draft of the
translation, it is not yet ready for posting.  I now hope to have it on
the website at least in time for Yom Yerushalayim.

I also hope to translate my grandfather's essay on Shabbat Shirah and
the transcendant significance of Shirat Moshe from his book Iqvei
ha-Tzon, to which he refers in his teshuvah on Yom ha-Atzma'ut and post
it on the website as well.

u-z'khutam yagein al kol beit yisrael, amein.

David Glasner


From: Naftoli Biber <naftoli@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:58:08 +1000
Subject: Rav Soloveichik and Lubavicher Rebbe

On Mon, 8 Apr 2002, leona kroll wrote:
> I also heard from Rav Morduchowitz that the Rebbe stood up for the Rav
> when he came into 770- which would make the RAv the only person- other
> than his own mother- that the Rebbe stood up for after becoming Rebbe.

While visiting the Lubavitcher Rebbe in 1974 I attended the Yud Tes
Kislev farbrengen.  The Skolener Rebbe walked in while the Rebbe was in
the middle of a sicha (discourse).  The Rebbe stopped speaking and stood
up until the Skolener Rebbe was seated.

This does not take away from the close relationship the Rebbe had with
the Rav which was well known in Lubavitch circles.

Naftoli Biber
Melbourne, Australia


From: <rhendel@...>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:06:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Reason for (not) allowing Minors to Lein

Gil Student (v36n16) mentions that the RADAL legitimizes
the custom of allowing minors to read from the Torah.

May I request a short summary of arguments? I can easily
offer a strong counterargument:

The enactment to read from the Torah was instituted by
Mosheh and Ezra in order for busy work people to learn Torah.
Hence this enactment ONLY applies to individuals liable to
learn (this would exclude minors and woman).

(I believe that this answers David Cohens original request
in v38n12 for a source for the 3rd opinion of Rav Ovadiah
Yosef that a minor may not read at all---I should add in
passing that a minor may read the Torah portion of the Maftir
according to all opinions (Since this is something extra)

A related but different question is e.g. if a minor or woman
read would the community have fulfilled its obligations (Would
we have to reread again).

I am sure there are other sides to this---but I would like to
hear some actual arguments(vs Sources). Specifically: (a) If the
reason for the enactment is Talmud Torah why should a minor
be allowed to lein anything (b) Why do some sources only prohibit
3 aliyahs?

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.RashiYomi.com/


From: <rhendel@...> (Russell Jay Hendel)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:05:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Should reasons for a Custom lead to behavior changes

Regarding unmarried men not wearing a Tallit: Steven Pudell suggests
(v36n16) that it is to advertise that they are not married. Other
postings suggested that single people who wear Talleisim should change
their minhag (Custom)

The reason I heard was economic as Chaim Tetel mentions in v36n7.

When I first heard this explanation I immediately changed my minhag and
started wearing a tallit gadol

Perhaps this should be a discussion topic.  When I find that the reason
for a non-talmudic custom does not apply I (usually) drop following the
minhag (and would expect that this is the proper approach. Comments?? )
I also add that I have a problem with adding reasons AFTER THE FACT (eg
suppose the original reason for not wearing a tallit was economic; is it
right to ADD the reason that we do it to advertise!? Should such an
addition be used to override established minhagim or as a basis for
Hatarat Nedarim.

In light of the numerous postings about people and Rabbanim using the
lack of a Talit Gadol to advertise perhaps we should examine the issue
of REASONS more thoroughly.

Russell Jay Hendel;http://www.RashiYomi.com/


From: Harold Greenberg <harold.greenberg@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:49:39 +0200
Subject: Tefillin shel rabbeynu Tam

The article on TEFILLIN in the Encyclopedia Judaica is too long to
reproduce here.  It says that Yigael Yadin found Tefillin in the caves
at the Dead Sea that "did, however, reveal one important point, namely
that the difference of opinion between Rashi and his grandson Jacob Tam
as to the order of the scriptural passages did not originate with them,
but they transmit different traditions which go back to the first
century at least, both systems being found among those fragments, and
both were therefore in use concurrently.  In point of fact the Piskei
Tosafot to Men. 34b has the statement that "In Nehardea and in Jerusalem
they found two sets of tefillin, one according to the order of Rashi and
the other according to that of Tam". "

Zvi Greenberg
Eilat, Israel


From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:00:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Why Rav Hirschs Translation of Tehillim is so Good

In V36 #22 Russell Jay Hendel says the best English translation of
Tehillim is the English Translation of Rav Hirschs German translation
(and commentary) on Tehillim.  He says Rav Hirsch was very careful to
translate in such a way as to capture the nuances of the Psalms.

I have a copy of _The Hirsch Psalms_ which I bought because I liked his
siddur so much.  But I found his Tehillim too far over my head for me to
appreciate.  The commentary was filled with what from my ignorance
appeared to be overly flowery (like the greetings found in 19th century
personal letters), and the translation itself had entire phrases and
ideas which did not seem to explicitly appear in the Hebrew.  I assume
this was due to subtle inferences in the Hebrew word choice which my
Hebrew is too rudimentary to pick up on, or reliance upon previous
mepharshim who interpreted Tehillim in ways that were far beyond the
simple literal meaning.

Frank Silbermann
New Orleans, Louisiana


From: Reuben Rudman <rudman@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:42:26 -0400
Subject: Yiddish Chad Gadya

<ARIEHNYC@...> (Arieh Lebowitz) wrote on Thu, 11 Apr 2002
> A Yiddish translation of Chad Gadya, done by I believe Y. L. Peretz,
> appeared in the Yiddish edition of the Forward a few years ago.

A search of Google for "Chad Gadya" and then a search within those
results for "Yiddish" turned up 147 hits.  If you also tried Khad Gadya
and/or Had Gadya. more hits would turn up.  Two of them may be of

A transliterated version of a Yiddish Chad Gadya

A Library of Congress collection on Chad Gadya described at

From: Joshua Hosseinof <jh@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:06:14 -0400
Subject: Yiddish Chad Gadya

Heinrich Guggenheimer's "The Scholar's Haggadah" (1995, Jason Aronson)
includes a Yiddish version/translation of Chad Gadya, Echad Mi Yodea,
and Adir Hu.  It also has a Judeo-Arabic version of Chad Gadya.  This
haggadah is unique in that it has parallel printing of the Ashkenazic,
Sephardic, and Yemenite Haggadahs, as well as variations from Western
and Eastern Ashkenazic, and Western and Oriental Sephardic versions of
the Haggadah.  It also has an extensive commentary in English (roughly
half the book).  I have used it for several years at my own seders so I
can highly recommend it.

Joshua Hosseinof


From: SBA <sba@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:51:26 +1000
Subject: Yiddish Hagadah

From: <Danmim@...>
>> searching for yiddish hagadah..do you have any information ,.thank you

I have several Hagodos with excellent Yiddish translations that have
been published in recent years.

Go to any Mocher Sforim in Boro Park or Williamsburg and you'll be shown
a choice of these.



End of Volume 36 Issue 23