Volume 36 Number 34
                 Produced: Sun May 26 11:06:47 US/Eastern 2002

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

3 days before Shavuot
         [Michael J. Savitz]
         [Stephen Colman]
Kiddush Levanah Note
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Laining in EY for those from Chutz L'Aretz
         [Rhonda Stein]
Memorial Plaques
         [Bernard Horowitz]
Must Minyan
         [Yisrael and Batya Medad]
Nosso-BeHa'aloscho for Travelers to Israel (2)
         [Shimon Lebowitz, Dani Wassner]
Old Tefillin (3)
         [A. Seinfeld, Joel Rich, Yisrael and Batya Medad]
Probability and Gmarrah
         [Russell Hendel]
When does shabbas start?
         [F Smiles]


From: Michael J. Savitz <michaelj@...>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:23:43 -0400
Subject: 3 days before Shavuot

In Ex. 19:15, which we just read on Shavuot, Moshe tells the people, "Be
ready [to receive the Torah] after a three-day period; do not draw near
a woman."

Based on this text it would seem logical for people to commemorate these
events by practicing abstinence during the 3 days before Shavuot -
preparing for zman matan torateinu the way that bnei yisrael prepared
for matan torah itself, so to speak.  (More logical than, say, eating
dairy foods on Shavuot itself.)  Is this an actual custom that is
practiced anywhere?


From: <StephenColman2@...> (Stephen Colman)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 05:59:48 EDT
Subject: Kaddish

A number of weeks ago there was a brief discussion on time limitation
for saying Kaddish of 50 years. I have been asking around here in London
for ANYBODY who has ever heard of such a thing, with a most emphatically
negative response. Can anybody let me have the names of any major
halochic authority who backs this concept ?


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:52:58 +0200
Subject: Kiddush Levanah Note

Given the fact that Kiddush Levanah is generally not said together but
with each person reciting it as he comes outside, different people start
and end at different times. As the Ashkenazic custom is to turn to three
people and wish them "Shalom Aleichem," it often happens that a person
is approached to answer "Aleichem Shalom" while he himself is still in
the midst of the Blessing (which begins Baruch Ata ...Asher bema'amaro
and ends "Mechadesh Chodashim"). I recently asked a local Rav whether to
answer in the middle of reciting the blessing should be considered an
hafsakah - interruption, and he said it is indeed such, and that one is
not permitted to answer at that time.

It would seem to me that that Halachah should be broadly disseminated.

Incidentally, the Halachah (as I found out years ago when I worked on a
book on Kidush Levanah) is that one needs three communications. These
can be three times turning to others and saying Shalom Aleichem, or
three times answering others, or any other combination which totals

Shmuel Himelstein


From: Rhonda Stein <rhondastein@...>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 07:25:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Laining in EY for those from Chutz L'Aretz

Someone recently inquired about hearing Parshas Naso this coming week in
Eretz Yisroel (where shuls will lain Behaaloscha, having lained Naso on
the past Shabbos which was the second day of Shavuos in Chutz laAretz).
My son tells me almost any Yeshiva with American students will be having
their own laining (upstairs or wherever) of Naso and Behaaloscha so they
will be caught up.  I suggest that the reader inquire at any Yeshiva, or
post where he lives/is staying and someone will have a specific


From: <Bmitzva@...> (Bernard Horowitz)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:52:10 EDT
Subject: Memorial Plaques

I am the president of a shul in the northeast section of the Bronx, New

Because of shifting and dwindling population, we have been forced to
downsize.  We have recently sold our building and are looking for
smaller quarters.  We are looking to relocate the memorial tablets and
plaques which are currently hanging in the building.  We would pay an
agreed-upon sum to an institution to take and maintain these plaques.
If you know of such an institution, please contact me off-list.

On this same topic, does anyone have experience or ideas about the
maintenance of such yahrzeit plaques after a shul closes?  Are there
options other than physically moving them to another site?  Would
hanging a photographic record be acceptable?  We greatly feel the
responsibility of doing the right thing for the people who paid for the
plaques and for those who are memorialized.  Your comments on- or
off-line would be appreciated.

Bernard Horowitz


From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:43:58 +0200
Subject: Must Minyan

> A local Rov here in New York suggested to me that there "must" be
> minyonim in Jerusalem - perhaps in the hotels that cater to the
> frum Tzibbur - at which both Nossoh and Beha'aloscho (or on
> subsequent weeks the applicable "double" Parsha) are leined.

I would be also very interested to know of this "must" minyan as I would
presume that it isn't a very common thing (and what minyan would make
the 'tircha' of an additional parasha?) although the Ishei Yisrael notes
on page Tet-Chet that according to the Revavot Efraim (of Memphis if I
recall correctly), Rav Aaron Kotler was in this situation and they read
an extra Parsha for him in Israel to catch up.  But, of course, that was
Rav Aaaron.

Yisrael Medad


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:30:33 +0200
Subject: Re: Nosso-BeHa'aloscho for Travelers to Israel

Samson Bechhofer <SBechhof@...> raised 
the question:
> Because this coming Shabbos is Parshas Nosso in Israel and the second
> day of Shovuos in Chutz La'aretz, someone traveling to Israel from ChuL
> over the next few weeks and staying over Shabbos has the problem of how
> to fulfill his obligation to hear K'rias HaTorah B'tzibbur of every Parsha. 

I would be interested in hearing the source of this apparently
well-known "obligation to hear K'rias HaTorah B'tzibbur of every

I was under the (possibly mistaken) impression that Kriat haTorah was an
obligation upon the Tzibur, the community, and not the individual. This
appears to be upheld by the fact that contrary to the situation of a
person who misses Megillah reading, and must read himself, someone who
misses Kriat haTorah has no obligation to get a Sefer Torah out and read
from it.

In that case, as long as the traveller did in fact daven with a minyan
(is "pray with a quorum" needed here?), wouldn't the fact that the
community read the appropriate reading *for that community* suffice?

P.S. I just remembered a 'maaseh shehaya' (an actual occurance) related
to this discussion which occurred during the Gulf War of 1991. On
Shabbat Parashat Bo, there were missle attacks against Israel, both
friday night and Shabbat morning, and many people did not go out (with
gas masks) to go to shul. I myself, was on duty away from home over
Shabbat, and slept at the home of friends, who *did* go to shul, but I
later heard that in my own shul there was barely a minyan.

On the following Shabbat, Parashat Beshalach, I was the Ba`al Koreh (or
whatever term you prefer) in my shul, and at the end of davening the rav
(I dont remember right now if that was still Rav Uzi Kalcheim z"l, or
already the current rav, Rav Eitan Eisman) told me that since most of
the tzibur had never heard Parashat Bo, I should read it too.

What we actually did was to announce at the end of musaf that following
the tefilla Parashat Bo would be read for the tzibur that missed it. We
took out a sefer Torah, and I "read" the parasha. I use that term
cautiously, since I had *not* prepared for it, and had to be
prompted. No brachot were made, no one was called up, I simply read
through the text of the parsha.

Does this prove anything? I don't know. :-) But as I wrote earlier, this
is generally not done for individuals, here the rav considered it a
community problem.

Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://shimonl.findhere.org/PGP/

From: Dani Wassner <dani@...>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:30:34 +0200
Subject: RE: Nosso-BeHa'aloscho for Travelers to Israel

> A local Rov here in New York suggested to me that there "must"
> be minyonim in Jerusalem - perhaps in the hotels that cater to the frum
> Tzibbur - at which both Nossoh and Beha'aloscho (or on subsequent weeks
> the applicable "double" Parsha) are leined.

Most hotels do have "chutz la'aretz" minyanim. Also, I have heard that
there are many shuls (mainly in hotels) where the entire (extra) parsha
is leined at mincha on Shabbat afternoon.

Dani Wassner,


From: A. Seinfeld <aseinfeld@...>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 01:07:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Old Tefillin

No, but he may well use his grandfather's Sefer Torah, kiddish cup,
chanukia, siddur, Megila, wristwatch....

One compromise solution is to fix-up the old tefillin, have the son use
them for his first aliya, and then keep them in storage for the next son
or as a back-up pair, etc. That gives a sense of tradition without
compromising neither the delicate tefillin nor the pursuit of the mitzva
min ha-medadrin.

      As one of the world's foremost poskim of STaM has told me many
      times when I discuss with him a customer who wants (his son) to
      use his grandfather's tefillin, "Ask him if he also wears his
      grandfather's trousers for sentimental value".

From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 05:26:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Old Tefillin

> From: Y. Askotzky <sofer@...>
> The main and decisive drawback to old tefillin is that it's very
> unlikely the parshios or the batim are (any longer) kosher
> lechatchila. The straps surely need replacement. I doubt you want your
> son to wear bedieved tefillin. Also, it's very possible the batim and/or
> parshios have become passul with age.

As one who wears his father's Z"L kippa in order to have a physical
reminder of all his lessons and that through our actions we can "earn
credit" for those who are no longer in the world of actions, my
suggestion(and action) would be (was) to seek out a reputable sofer and
have him evaluate the tfillin.

Kol Tuv,
Joel Rich

From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:49:59 +0200
Subject: Old Tefillin

Re: The main and decisive drawback to old tefillin is that it's very
      unlikely the parshios or the batim are (any longer) kosher
      lechatchila. The straps surely need replacement. I doubt you want
      your son to wear bedieved tefillin. Also, it's very possible the
      batim and/or parshios have become passul with age.  Rabbi
      Yerachmiel Askotzky

well, this isn't clear-cut to me.

If a person receives tfilin at age 13, should he automatically get new
tfilin when he's, say, 60?  when does tfilin become "old"?  I would
think that if a certified sofer stam checks tfilin, he can correct any
errors in the klafim; he can replace straps; he can touch up corners,
etc.  And since every seven years, tfilin should be checked, there's no
question of "lechatchila".  Just keep checking until either a sofer
tells you the klaf can't be fixed anymore or the box falls apart.
Remember, the tfilin they found from the Bar Kochba period, still looked
pretty good.

Yisrael Medad


From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 22:41:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Probability and Gmarrah

With regard to the discussion about similarities of probability and
halchic issues of doubt (eg Koppel and Turkel v36n28 )one should bear in
mind an important difference between say Geometry and probability.

Geometry STARTED as an axiomatic discipline. By contrast Probability
started as an amusement of mathematicians who were curious about
gambling probabilities. Probability results existed for SEVERAL HUNDRED
YEARS prior to the 20th century.  What happened in the 20th century is
that probability was AXIOMATIZED. That is, the axiomatic foundation of
probability occured after several hundred years of theorems, results and
paradoxes on the subject. The subject already existed It had ALREADY
been applied to social, criminal, and philosophical investigations!

I should also mention that a great deal of the philosophical issues in
probability occured in earlier centuries. These were motivated by the so
called probability paradoxes (eg the probability result that in a school
with 100 classrooms each with 23 children we expect about half the rooms
to have at least 2 children with the same birthday)

So I dont think the axiomatization of probability had any bearing on
halachik formulations of doubt.

In passing despite rereading Moshes posting I still do NOT know a clear
formulation of the difference between Issur D'Issa Kaman and D'Lo Issa
Kaman. Perhaps Moshe or someone else should explain this so that we can
examine(more clearly) its relationship to probability concepts

Russell Jay Hendel; phd ASA; dept of Math; Towson University


From: F Smiles <fsmiles@...>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 21:23:47 -0700
Subject: When does shabbas start?

New to the web . Rav Nachum Sauer of the Beit Din of Los Angeles and Rosh
Kollel can be heard on the net at www.613.org/speakers/sauer.html  on the
complicated topic of when shabbas starts.
His clarity on such a difficult topic is amazing.
Did you know that Jews in Europe used to do work on friday over 30 minutes
past sundown ?
When is shabbas over?
And when do you keep shabbas in Alaska?

We invite all Jews to listen to these mp3 files. MP3 hits the shulan

 Bein Hashemashos - Shitas Rabbeinu Tam and Gra given by Rabbi Sauer
encoded by Dr. Ungar, tape from Allen Haymanin mp3!!
 Determination of Tzais Hacochavim Part 2 of 3
 Bein Hashemashos Part  3 of 3
download directory

f smiles


End of Volume 36 Issue 34