Volume 36 Number 88
                 Produced: Sun Aug  4 12:44:24 US/Eastern 2002

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Avoiding Resume Gaps (8)
         [Pudell, Steven J., Rachel Swirsky, chihal, Gil Student,
Binyomin Segal, Bernard Raab, Michael Kahn, Carl Singer]
English translation of Ramban's Iggerss Hakodesh
         [Eliezer Wenger]
Geosynchronous Orbits and Shabbat
         [Akiva Miller]
Munax Mahpach-Special Tune
         [Russell J Hendel]
Seating for men only
         [Chaim Wasserman]
Shir Hashirim
         [Gershon Dubin]


From: Pudell, Steven J. <Spudell@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:19:22 -0400
Subject: Avoiding Resume Gaps

I wont address the "ethical concern" but as a practical matter I think
unless you are applying for a teaching job -- you may be better off
characterizing your kollel/yeshiva studies as just that or Advanced
Talmudic Reseach (or the like).  If you were conceivably in a Smicha
Track program -- mentioning that you were studying towards ordination
may be good.

On my resume, I think, i had my year of learning after college as
advanced talmudic studies.  ALSO, I should note that i also have a Real
Gap, where I stayed home with my kids for a year. There was a story
behind it of course (of what events led to that decisions), but I did
stay home while my wife worked and i dont account for it on my resume.
If they look closely at my resume they have noticed it.  By the way, it
has always appeared to have helped my chances at getting the job.



From: Rachel Swirsky <swirskyr@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:36:37 -0400
Subject: Avoiding Resume Gaps

There is never anything wrong with saying that one spent some time in an
advanced institution for higher learning.  If they ask, you can explain.

Rachel Swirsky

From: chihal <chihal@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:46:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Avoiding Resume Gaps

Shalom, All:

	Tzadik Vanderhoof raises the ethical question of how to avoid
having large "gaps" in your resume and still account for <<the thorny
problem of yeshiva and kollel study....  How does one account for this
time on a resume?  One novel approach I've heard is that if you have
participated in a "chabura" during that time, you can record it on your
resume as "teaching". >>

Why not call it post graduate study in ethics, philosophy and theology?
(Just be sure to have thought out an answer to anyone who subsequently
asks, "So what do your situational ethics tell you about XYZ??)

Come to think of it, you can truthfully also say your post-grad studies
included logic, law, agriculture, history, sociology etc., as all these
are encountered in study of Torah, Gemara, Nach and other traditional

Charles Chi (Yeshaya) Halevi

From: <gil.student@...> (Gil Student)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:59:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Avoiding Resume Gaps

>Then comes the thorny problem of yeshiva and kollel study. How does one 
>account for this time on a resume? One novel approach I've heard is that if
>you have participated in a "chabura" during that time, you can record it on
>your resume as "teaching". What do y'all think about that, ethically?

That doesn't seem 100% honest to me.  If you are in kollel then you can
call it a fellowship.  Otherwise, you are pursuing advanced studies.
That's what I have on my resume and, while I've gotten questions on it,
I b"h haven't had any problems.

Gil Student

From: Binyomin Segal <bsegal@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:42:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Avoiding Resume Gaps

Tzadik Vanderhoof asked:
> Then comes the thorny problem of yeshiva and kollel study.
> How does one account for this time on a resume?

Don't have an opinion about the chabura/teaching suggestion you
mentioned.  On my resume, yeshiva study is undergraduate study in Jewish
studies. My Kollel time is referred to as graduate work in Jewish
studies. When I was paid for kollel, I refer to it as a fellowship in
Jewish studies.

This puts all my yeshiva time in with my education, rather than my work
experience. And gives the (I think accurate) impression that I spent a
lot of time in school doing advanced academics.

For some, there might be an advantage to make yeshiva time look like
work time rather than education time. I would certainly think that
someone who gave shiurim on a regular basis (as a rosh chabura, or
classes to the public in a community kollel setting) could accurately
choose to portray it in that way.

Hope this helps.
Contact me via my NEW address

From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:24:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Avoiding Resume Gaps

Halachah dictates honesty here, as everywhere. This time can simply be
listed as "Advanced Seminary Studies". And be prepared to discuss it in
a straightforward nonapologetic and unembarassed way. Done properly, it
will emphasize your serious and reliable nature and can give you a real
leg up on the competition. Plus, it will not come as a complete
surprise, then, when you request time off for various strange religious
holidays. Also, when you become friendly with coworkers, you will not
need to be constantly on your guard lest you say something which might
contradict your resume.  Good luck!

From: Michael Kahn <mi_kahn@...>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:44:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Avoiding Resume Gaps

I thought I'd tell a related story. While in yeshiva, I once had to
visit a ireligous relative who would have never heard of "sitting and
learning" and would not understand it. I asked someone what to do. He
told me, "Just say your studying law - don't say Talmudic law." This
idea made me really uncomfortable so when I came to my relative I
actually told her how I didn't know how to explain what I do as I was
afraid she might not understand it. I added that someone adviced me to
say I was studying law but that was to deceiving to me. Needless to say,
she was very impressed with my honesty and said that learning Torah was
wonderfull... This from an elderly Reform Jew.  with regard to a resume,
why not say pursuing a P.H.D in Jewish law. Many yeshivahs are actually
acredited and their credits are transferable to other colleges. This way
your telling the truth. I think it's wrong to say teaching as it implies
teaching and presentation experience when this is not true. Also, if you
are asked to prove that you taught your in trouble.

From: <CARLSINGER@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:03:08 EDT
Subject: Avoiding Resume Gaps

I guess the question is when is a lie not a lie.  (The answer is never.)

Many years ago when I received a resume from someone who was one year
out of a Wharton MBA and bemoaning the fact that he had been unable to
secure a job in that year.  I still think this may have been a trick
letter sent by someone trying to "study" whether negative letters go
unanswered.  I said to myself that for practical purposes this person
would have done much better to say they had been "travelling in Europe"
to explain the gap.

But beyond the ethical of a lie is the practical -- in my various
management classes I relay a lesson learned from many business sources
-- don't lie.  The "given" reason is that lies will always get caught.
Interviewing you for a job and trying to get to know you better you may
well be asked: "Teaching?" --- "Where, what subjects did you teach?"
--- "What ages?"  Will you then continue to fabricate a deeper and more
complex fiction.

If you spent a year at a Yeshiva, say so -- in plain English.  If that
somehow turns off your would-be employer, so be it.  Do you want to work
with someone who doesn't respect who you are -- or do you want to live a
lie at work hiding your real self?

Another point is that a lie on your resume is grounds for dismissal in
many companies -- consider the vulnerability.

I recently got a resume from a neighbor's son-in-law that included the

19xx  B.M.G. Institute, Lakewood Graduate Talmudic Diploma
19xx  B.M.G. Institute, Lakewood N.J.Masters Degree, R.T.S. Advanced
Analytical Thinking
20xx  B.M.G. Institute, Lakewood N.J.Bachelors Degree, R.T.S. Advanced
Analytical Thinking

This is a wonderful young man now leaving Yeshiva and trying to make a
parnoseh for his wife and children.  Will these degrees on his resume
help?  Yes, because, among other things, they fill in gaps and let me
follow his chronology.

Kol Tov

Carl Singer


From: Eliezer Wenger <ewenger@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:42:54 -0400
Subject: English translation of Ramban's Iggerss Hakodesh

In response to Avrohom's query in V36 N80: If I am not mistaken,
Artscroll has published an english translation of the Ramban's Iggeres.

Eliezer Wenger


From: <kennethgmiller@...> (Akiva Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:09:11 -0400
Subject: re: Geosynchronous Orbits and Shabbat

In MJ 36:81, Daniel M Wells wrote <<< One of the basic principles of the
Jewish Calendar is that the Jewish day is 24 hours ... IMHO, if an
astronaut sees sunrise sunset sunrise within less than 24 hours, then the
second sunrise is really the same day as the first sunrise. >>>

I have to disagree. If the issue were as clear-cut as you are making it
out to be, then what about this situation: A person travels from the US
to Israel on Tisha B'Av by normal airline flight. He has therefore seen
sunset sunrise sunset in far less than 24 or even 18 hours. Does this
mean that the second sunset is the same day as the first sunset, so that
he may not eat until 24 hours have passed?

 From what I've seen, all poskim hold that he can eat when the people
around him are eating (i.e., when the local time is after Tisha
B'Av). So too, it seems very reasonable (though admittedly not very
practical) that an astronaut observes the same Tisha B'Av (and Shabbos)
as the people below him -- even if that means starting and stopping
these observances many time in a short period.

We have to define our terms better. A day is twenty-four hours? Only for
each spot on Earth individually. Wherever the Halachic Internatitional
Date Line might be, the point just to its west is the first spot on
Earth to experience Shabbos each week. 24 hours later, the point just to
the *east* of the date line will *begin* Shabbos, and the point to the
west will end it. Finally, another 24 hours after that, the point to the
east will be ending Shabbos. So what we have is that each week, there is
a **48**-hour period during which some point on Earth is experiencing
Shabbos, and only one moment when the *whole* Earth is experiencing
Shabbos. (Obviously, I have ignored the status of twilight to keep it

A day is 24 hours, but only for each location. And if one's location
changes, so can Shabbos.

Akiva Miller


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:24:51 -0400
Subject: RE: Munax Mahpach-Special Tune

Alfred Silberman in v36n79 asks about the custom of changing the special
tune of a munach before a mahpach

(My brother, the Honorable Neal Hendel of Beer Sheva once pointed out
that the tune resembles a Mayrchah Kefulah--everyone I have spoken to
agrees with this but I have not seen it explicitly in any book)

Alfred correctly asks that the change makes a CONNECTIVE cantillation
sound PAUSAL. I have also been raised in this tradition.

In v36n79 I gave other examples of cantillation customs which I would
like to change (but dont because I have no backup from sources). However
in this instance I have changed my custom (And now lein all MUNAX the
same way).

What authority did I have to change what I was taught?

Because the leining rules are very very clear and explicit that there
are two types of cantillations--connective and pausal. This affects many
items (like bgd kft, dagesh etc).  Consequently it would violate the
known classification to read a munax in an elongated manner. Of course I
have the precedent that most other munax are read this way.

The way I see it I have to chose between 2 contradictory customs: a) The
way I was taught to lein it b) The explicit laws which require that
these words sound CONNECTIVE and not pausal.

I would be interested (Beside an answers to Als question) on halachic
comments on my analysis.

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.RashiYOmi.com/


From: <Chaimwass@...> (Chaim Wasserman)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:40:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Seating for men only

Shmuel Himmelstein's < "Seating for men only." > experience in Meah Shearim 
sounds like the situation is ripe for an Israeli version of a Rosa Parks 
demostration which changed American history in the 60s. 

Sounds like a group of assertive women demonstrating daily in front of
the store could create a real huff-and-a-puff.

I, too, passed that store several times in since July 1 and wait until I
get to center town to have my falalfel-less and chipless falafel on King
George and Agrippas. Its Mehadrin for men and women.

Chaim Wasserman


From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:09:05 GMT
Subject: Shir Hashirim

From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>

> Just another example of unintended and unwelcome consequences of
> "righteous" action. 

Just another case of someone knowing why someone else did something.

Is the stated purpose, the idea of "kodesh kodoshim" so impossible to
believe that we need believe that they are acting as censors of the
writings of Shelomo Hamelech?



End of Volume 36 Issue 88