Volume 37 Number 35
                 Produced: Thu Oct 10  4:44:08 US/Eastern 2002

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Art Scroll Machzor (2)
         [Stephen Phillips, Tzadik Vanderhoof]
Bat Kohen (2)
         [Shimon Lebowitz, Chana Luntz]
Business Ethics
         [Ari Trachtenberg]
Halachik Date Line
         [Steven White]
Hayom te-ametseinu
         [Perets Mett]
International Dateline
         [Tzvi Harris]
Listing of the ten tribes
         [David Farkas]
Men vs. Women Carrying in Eiruv Chatzerot
         [Gershon Dubin]
Rambam on Eternity of the Torah
         [Yehuda Landy]
Tallis at lunch
         [Frank Silbermann]
Travel on (or close to) Shabbat & Yom Tov (2)
         [Nachman Yaakov Ziskind, Ira L. Jacobson]


From: Stephen Phillips <stephenp@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 13:38 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: Art Scroll Machzor

> From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
> Maybe it's just me, but did anyone else in attempt to doven from the Art
> Scroll Succot/Simchat Torah Machzor this Simchat Torah?
> ...
> Well, it does tell you when to bow, sit, stand and open the
> ark, but it doesn't seem to have clear instructions for Simchat Torah on
> Shabbat, which apparently only happens in Israel.  I was totally
> confused.

That's because the Artscroll Machzorim and Siddurim are written
exclusively for people in Chutz Lo'Oretz [Diaspora].

Stephen Phillips.

From: Tzadik Vanderhoof <tzadikv@...>
Subject: Re: Art Scroll Machzor

ArtScroll makes virtually *no* concessions to Eretz Yisroel. It's
strange, but that's the way it is.  I hope you didn't use the ArtScroll
to daven Mussaf during Chol HaMoed Succos, because if you did, you
davened wrong every day.  It really only applies to people in Chutz


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0200
Subject: Re: Bat Kohen

> Not a question you asked, but one I will answer anyway.  As an eshes
> kohen, I asked whether there was any problem with my doing taharos.  The
> answer was no, there are no restrictions, and no impact on my husband
> whatsoever.

It took me a bit till I understood what you meant by "doing taharos".  I
was thinking mishnayot, or tahor food. This reminded me that as soon as
your husband starts bringing home truma for you to prepare and serve
(unless he does his own cooking), your tum'a will very definitely have
an impact.

Meheira yibaneh hamikdash!
Shimon Lebowitz                     mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel                   mailto:<shimonl@...>

From: Chana Luntz <Chana@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 22:38:32 +0100
Subject: Bat Kohen

>Zev Sero <zev.sero@...>  writes

>> Are there any restrictions on a bat kohen entering a Jewish cemetery?
>None at all.  The command is to `the sons of Aharon', and not to the
>daughters of Aharon.  (Kiddushin 35a, Rambam Hil. Evel 3:11)

While the halacha appears to be as Zev and others have stated, you might
be interested to know that at least certain branches of the Dwek/Douek
family (a well known family of kohanim from Syria) appear to have a
minhag to the contrary (although it may only be in the case of a bat
kohen who is also an eishet kohen).

The reason I know this is that my mother-in-law was a bat kohen Dwek.
She married a Yisroel, but her sister married another kohen-Douek (ie
was a bat kohen who became an eishet kohen).  At my mother in law's
levaya, the daughter of her sister, who as well as (obviously) being a
bat kohen, is also an eishet cohen, insisted on standing outside with
all the male kohanim, and also insisted that her daughter (who again is
of course a bat kohen, and is again also an eishet kohen) stand outside
with her.  She insisted on the same for her daughter at her own mother's
(ie her daughter's grandmother's) levaya.

When I indicated surprise, suggesting that it was only the male kohanim
that were required to stand outside, she insisted that she had always
been taught that she had to stand outside by her father and husband,
although she thought that was because she (and presumably her mother and
also her daughter) were each both a bat kohen and an eishet kohen.  She
thought maybe it didn't applied in other circumstances (not that she had
any experience of any).

Kind Regards
Chana Luntz


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:34:10 -0400
Subject: Business Ethics

I have a couple of questions of business ethics that the mail-jewish
might be able to help with:

1) Many (most?) restaurants and stores impose a minimum charge for
credit card use.  This clearly violates the store's credit card
agreement with Mastercard and Visa (I checked independently).  Thus, is
there a halachic issue with patronizing such stores, especially when you
would be aiding a violation of an agreement?

2) Are there halachic issues with providing poor service at kosher
restaurants (chillul hashem, etc.), or is this a market-driven issue, in
which case a business might try to reduce service in order to cut costs?

Many thanks, in advance,
Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: <StevenJ81@...> (Steven White)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:43:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Halachik Date Line

In 37:32, Dani Wassner <dani@...> writes:
> This is a very complex issue, with far reaching and often bizarre
> implications for those travelling anywhere between the West Coast of the
> USA and Asia.
> Essentially there are two main opinions observed today.

We keep going around in circles about all of this, but this article
still covers the ground better than our periodic discussions of the

Pahmer, D. "The International Date Line and Related Issues."The Journal
of Halacha and Contemporary Society 21 (1991): 60-83.

> The first is that of the Chazon Ish [snip]
> The other major opinion is that of Rav Tukeshinsky.  [snip]

I don't agree.  There is a third legitimate opinion: that the
International Date Line (more or less) is an acceptable location.

> According to most opinions, the "International Date Line", decided upon
> by a group of mainly British men in the 1880s at a meeting in Greenwich
> has no real halachic significance.

That is only true per se; i.e., that line has no intrinsic halachic
validity.  But the article also discusses the halachic line of reasoning
that people might establish Shabbat in distant communities as if in a
desert by counting days.  Following that practice, the "International
Date Line" as nominally construed incorporates nearly all of the
"machloket" area according to the actual practice in those places:

-Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan (where Jews
-originally came from Europe around the Cape of Good Hope) with Asia;
-Alaska and Hawaii (where Jews generally come from the USA) with USA.

According to this concept, only places with ambiguous settlement
histories, or those where Jews settled after round-the-world travel
became relatively common, would still be problematic.  I'm thinking,
perhaps, of Guam and the Phillipines (most Jews probably US military, at
least originally), French Polynesia (?), certain islands in Micronesia
(how many Jews are there?).

> None of this has to be particularly problematic since we are talking
> about a machloket (disagreement) acharonim. Therefore, one can follow
> the minhag hamakom (local practice), and follow the Chazon Ish in Hawaii
> and Rav Tukeshinsky in New Zealand (as their respective communities seem
> to do).

All the more reason not to confuse people by paskening an halachic date
line different from the "common" date line if not absolutely necessary.

According to the article cited (I think; it's been a while), Reb Moshe
Feinstein, ztz"l, told his questioner to ask people in those places what
day they kept.  > > The real problem arises when one visits a place with
no Jewish > community, or when one is flying over such a place.

True enough.  

Steven White
Highland Park, NJ


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:07:44 +0100
Subject: Hayom te-ametseinu

David Olivestone wrote:

>What he does is to add one more line, i.e., "tichteveinu lechayyim
>tovim" (without saying where he found it),

I think you will find this line in the Padua edition of the machzor for
Rosh Hashono . For Yom Kippur a different verse is included.  There is
also a version for Neilo.

Perets Mett


From: Tzvi Harris <ltharris@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:45:24 +0200
Subject: Re: International Dateline

Dani Wassner wrote re. the international dateline:
<None of this has to be particulalry problematic since we are talking
about a machloket (disagreement) acharonim. Therefore, one can follow
the minhag hamakom (local practice), and follow the Chazon Ish in Hawaii
and Rav Tukeshinsky in New Zealand (as their respective communities seem
to do).>

I don't think it is so simple.  When talking about Shabbat or Moadim
we're dealing with d'oraitas' (laws of Biblical origin) which means that
this issue can't just be dismissed as a machloket achronim that's not
particularly problematic. 

I also don't think that the opinion which give halachic value to the
international convention can be dismissed as having "no real halachic
significance".  I believe that several great poskim and several hasidic
leaders considered "local custom" (which seems to be usually based on
international agreement) to be binding.  I can't look the following
sources up right now to check them, but try: Noam 14 page 98, Shu"t Bnei
Tzion, and other sources quoted in the above Noam.

Tzvi Harris
Talmon, Israel


From: David Farkas <DavidF@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:08:19 -0400 
Subject: Listing of the ten tribes

There appear to be numerous different ways of listing the ten tribes.
While we know the proper order of their birth, they seem to be listed
under all sorts of configurations throughout Tanach. I am looking for a
list of all places in Tanach where they are listed, and perhaps an
explanation for each variance. Does anyone know any references?

David Farkas
Cleveland, Ohio


From: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:14:30 GMT
Subject: Men vs. Women Carrying in Eiruv Chatzerot

From: Avi Feldblum <mljewish@...>
>>The logical conclusion of which would be that before a man accepts upon
himself any additional chumra's that would affect his wife, he should
ensure that she is fully OK with him doing that.

The Maharsha (IIRC) explains how the decision (of Rabbi Elazar ben
Azarya to accept the nesius) directly affected her, hence she was



From: <nzion@...> (Yehuda Landy)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:58:18 +0200
Subject: Rambam on Eternity of the Torah

> From: Shalom Carmy <carmy@...>
> > There are many Toraitic commandments that halachic literature tells us
> > will never again be applicable. Most famously, the Rambam (although his
> > opinion is far from unanimously accepted) holds that animal sacrafices
> > will not be instituted in the 3rd Beit Hamikdash.
> Repeating an untrue statement or attribution many many times may make it
> famous, but does not make it true.

I wish to add that the Rambam states clearly in Hilchos Melachim chapter
11 Halacha 1 that the Moshiach will build Beis Hamikdash and reinstate
all the laws just as they were in olden days, sacrificial offerings
shall resume etc.
				Yehuda Landy


From: Frank Silbermann <fs@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:09:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:  Tallis at lunch

About the practice of wearing a tallis while eating Shabbos lunch
Carl Singer (V37 N31) writes:

> I believe it's ...  so as not to have a hefsik (break) in wearing it
> from davening ....  Some would say that if you took off your tallis
> after davening (say for kiddish or perhaps an in-shule luncheon),
> then to put it back on again to wear it home would be questionable.

If one follows this practice, then would the tallis lose its sanctity as
an object dedicated for use during prayer, therefore allowing one to
wear into a bathroom (assuming no bracha embroidered on it)?

Frank Silbermann
New Orleans, Louisiana


From: Nachman Yaakov Ziskind <awacs@...>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:22:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Travel on (or close to) Shabbat & Yom Tov

| From: Elazar M Teitz <remt@...>
|         One factor not taken into account: if the train was outside of
| t'chum Shabbos (the limit to which one is permitted to walk) of his
| destination when Shabbos began, the person is restricted from going more
| than 4 amos (6 to 8 feet) from the station in which he detrains.

This open up another thread: where are the the t'chumim in today's
society, with one city spilling on another? In NYC, for example, is the
(western) t'chum at the Hudson? Or someplace in New Jersey?

Nachman Yaakov Ziskind, EA, LLM         <awacs@...>
Attorney and Counselor-at-Law           http://yankel.com
Economic Group Pension Services         http://egps.com

From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:54:33 +0200
Subject: Re: Travel on (or close to) Shabbat & Yom Tov

Batya Medad <ybmedad@...> stated:

      We made aliya on a boat.  The last day of the trip was Shabbat.
      We could have docked around noon if it had been any other day, but
      we had to wait until motzei Shabbat.

However, you may recall all the Israeli government officials who came on
board before we had docked.  While it might have been important to the
non-Jewish captain to observe Shabbat, the government apparently placed
no such restrictions on their Jewish employees.

Just to make things clear, I was on the same ship, the Queen Anna Maria,
which docked in Haifa on September 5, 1970.



End of Volume 37 Issue 35