Volume 38 Number 21
                 Produced: Sun Jan  5  8:17:56 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Zev Sero]
Censorship and R. Kitov
         [David and Toby Curwin]
Choson and tachanun (2)
         [.cp., Howard S. Farkas]
Confiscating Items
         [Shimon Lebowitz]
Connecting the Moshe and Gadol threads
         [David Curwin]
Gemara Shiurim in Yiddish
         [Shimon Lebowitz]
Making of a Gadol
Making of a Gadol - Text of Ban
         [Rabbi Leonard Oppenheimer]
Minhag or din
         [David I. Mostofsky]
Minyan on Airplanes - not
         [Jack Wechsler]
New RAMBAM YOMI listserv
         [Paul Ginsburg]
A Politically Correct Mem ?
         [Yitschak Maser]
Rabbi Lau's statement on cloning
Rambam, Moshe and Moshiach
         [Lawrence Kaplan]
Rashi's gravesite?
         [Paul Ginsburg]


From: Zev Sero <zev.sero@...>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:45:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Ahar

>> It is written in many places that certain people will come back before
>> the general Resurrection, including Moshe and Aharon, who will come back
>> immediately upon Moshiach's arrival, or even perhaps slightly before it.

> Can you please cite a source more than 200-300 years old which makes
> such a statement? 

The gemara Yoma 5b says that Moshe and Aharon will be present at the
installation of the Cohanim for the 3rd Bet Hamikdash, and able to tell
us how it is to be done (it's not clear why such an installation should
be necessary, but that's not the point).

Similarly, Tosefot Pesachim 114b, dh Echad Zecher Lepesach, says that
Moshe and Aharon will be present at the very first Erev Pesach after
Moshiach comes, and will direct which korbanot should be brought.

Zev Sero


From: David and Toby Curwin <tobyndave@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 22:37:14 +0200
Subject: Censorship and R. Kitov

Prof. Aaron Ahrend in his "Israel's Independence Day - Research
Studies", pgs 18-9 summarizes R. Kitov's approach to Yom HaAtzmaut.

David Curwin
Efrat, Israel


From: .cp. <chips@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 20:44:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Choson and tachanun

Howard  wrote:
>I know this sounds like one of those apocryphal stories about the Rav,
>but I heard it from another much-respected mora d'asra who was very
>close to him.  The mora d'asra told the ba'al tefilah to say tachanun in
>the presence of someone whose chuppa would be held that night. He quoted
>the Rav, whom he heard say in the same situation, "Yes, tonight he may
>be a melech, but right now he is merely a candidate!"

How does this prove anything? If the wedding was that NIGHT then it was
halachically the next day.

From: Howard S. Farkas <h-farkas@...>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 09:36:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Choson and tachanun

My comment was not meant to "prove" anything about standing for a choson
and kallah. It was a response to someone who was told to SKIP tachanun
under these same circumstances, i.e., shacharit in the presence of
someone whose chuppa was to be held that day after tzeit hakochavim
(halachically the next day). It is my understanding that tachanun should
be said in this situation.  This is apparently supported by the quote
from Rav Soloveichik.

As far as standing at the chuppah is concerned, I don't see how the fact
that it is after tzeit hakochavim, but still before the ceremony, makes him
any more of a "melech" rather than "merely a candidate."

Howard Farkas


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:08:33 +0200
Subject: Re: Confiscating Items

> 1 -- presuming the child is a katan -- then who really is the original
> owner of the confiscated item -- say a tennis ball?  Is it the parent. And
> is the agreement re: confiscation of contraband between the school (or
> rebbe) and the parent -- both parties are capable of making agreements.

I believe that a *gift* made to a katan becomes the katan's personal
exclusive property. I do not remember a source for this, bli"n (no
promises!) I hope to get one and post it.

I agree with confiscating distracting things, but I do not know of a way
to reconcile it with rules of kinyan.

Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://www.poboxes.com/shimonpgp


From: David Curwin <tobyndave@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 22:43:22 +0200
Subject: Re: Connecting the Moshe and Gadol threads

I've always thought that what really makes Moshe Rabbeinu the model for
all future rabbis, is not only his humility, but the fact that the Torah
shows him with three "failings" - he forgets (halachot according to
midrashim), he admits he does not know and he sins/ makes
mistakes. While the above happen to all humans, it was Moshe's humility
(and God's recognition of it) that allowed them to be shown. It is much
more difficult today to find Gedolim who (or more likely their
talmidim/chassidim) open publicize their similar failings.

David Curwin
Efrat, Israel


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 16:08:35 +0200
Subject: Re: Gemara Shiurim in Yiddish

> Lo mir lernen a blatt Gemara--from 1953-88 listeners to Daf Hashavua
> enjoyed Rav Pinchas M. Teitz's gemara shiurim in Yiddish on the radio.
> Tapes of 3 mesechtos--Makkos (begins January 3rd in Daf Yomi), Mo'ed
> Kattan and Ta'anis--have just been transcribed from studio reel-to-reel
> tapes to audiocassettes. To order, write to <daf@...>

Shalom Rivka,

I have in my possesion a few vinyl records with the beginning of Rav
Teitz's shiurim on Brachot. I have converted them to MP3 format using
freebie software. While I assume that you also have copies of these
shiurim, I wonder why you are going the way of cassettes and not MP3?

That format would allow you to distribute the shiurim far more cheaply
on far less media. Each CD can hold 10-15 *hours* of MP3 (probably much
more for speech, without the higher sampling rates that stereo music
needs) and costs pennies (I don't know American prices, but I pay about
NIS 1.25 to 1.50 per CD).

Shabbat Shalom,
Shimon (great grandson of Golda Miriam Preil Schwartz)
Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://www.poboxes.com/shimonpgp


From: <moti2@...>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 21:41:51 -0500
Subject: Making of a Gadol

 Does anyone know where you can get it?


From: Rabbi Leonard Oppenheimer <rabbi@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 04:05:11 +0200
Subject: Making of a Gadol - Text of Ban

The text of the ban against "The Making of a Gaodol" can be found at


Rabbi Leonard Oppenheimer


From: David I. Mostofsky <dmostof@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:39:22 -0500
Subject: Minhag or din

1. Where is the source for the practice that children are not to attend the
second wedding of a parent?

2. If one is unable to attend shul on Shabbas m'vorchim, does he still
recite the Birchat HaChodesh without a minyan?


From: Jack Wechsler <wechsler@...>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 18:06:41 +0200
Subject: Minyan on Airplanes - not

I would just like to add my own humble personal opinion that I think it
is far far better to arrange a minyan on the ground,one often has to
wait ages for the baggage to come through anyway so why not utilise the
time properly.Also if one has been on a long flight ,what is so bad in
giving the extra few minutes to daven with a bit of kavona. I have
always thought that making up a minyan squeezed up at the back or front
of an EL-AL flight between the galley and the toilet is halachically
more of a chilul tephilah than tephilah betzibur.

What do others feel ?
Jack Wechsler


From: Paul Ginsburg <GinsburgP@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:48:18 -0500
Subject: New RAMBAM YOMI listserv

An e-mail discussion listserv has been started for those who participate
in Rambam Yomi (learning one chapter of Mishneh Torah each day).  To
subscribe, please visit:


or send a blank e-mail to 



From: Yitschak Maser <simone.maser@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 13:41:06 +0100
Subject: A Politically Correct Mem ?

In a few chumashim you find a large final mem in the word shilayshim at
the end of parshat vayechi (4th last pasuk - Gen.  50 :23), for example
in the small set with the Malbim's commentary. But in most chumashim
that I've seen there is no indication of this large letter.

There is no mention of this large final mem in Massechet Sofrim nor in
the Aruch Hashulchan's Hilchot Sefer Torah. And yet the Arizal in Shaar
Hapsukim (Sefer HaLikkutim) teaches : " know that the mem of shilayshim
is a final mem written large ".

Regarding this, an interesting case of revision involves the Hertz
chumash; the Pentateuch and Haftorahs, Hebrew Text, English Translation
and Commentary, edited by Dr. J.H. Hertz, Late Rabbi of the British
Empire. It displays the large final mem and the appropriate footnote in
its second edition (fourth impression) dated 5722-1962. But in a later
second edition (18th impression, 5736-1976), the large mem has shrunk to
a regular final mem and the footnote has vanished. I wonder when, how
and why this was decided.

Yitschak Maser
Montpellier, France


From: .cp. <chips@...>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:55:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rabbi Lau's statement on cloning

"The moment medical science tries to take upon itself duties and areas
which are not its responsibility such as shortening life, cloning, or
creating life in an unnatural way we must set down borders in order not
to harm the basic belief that there is a creator of the universe in
whose hands life and death are placed," a statement from Israel's Chief
Rabbi Israel Meir Lau's office said.

So is Rabbi Lau against the use of pacemakers?

Why should there be an halachic problem with having a clone? I can
understand halachic questions of parentage and the such, but if there
can be golems, why not clones?


From: Lawrence Kaplan <lawrence.kaplan@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:07:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Rambam, Moshe and Moshiach

In a previous message I wrote:

> > Regarding the Moshiach and Moses, the Rambam in Hilkhot Teshuvah 9:2
> > describes the Moshiach as "Navi Gadol hu, Karov mi-Moshe Rabbeynu," that
> > is, "a great prophet closer [to God?] than Moshe." Here the Rambam would
> > seem to be saying that in a certain respect, which is not entirely
> > clear, the Moshiach will be greater than Moshe.  "Mi-Moshe" is the
> > reading in the Oxford Manuscript, which is the most accurate text of
> > Sefer Ha-Mada.  Some editions, however, read "Karov le-Moshe," that is,
> > "close to Moshe," close, but not as great.  This matter has been much
> > discussed among commentators and scholars.

A number of people both on mail-Jewish and privately have raised
questions about the phrase "karov mi." I have now checked in the Frankel
edition of the Rambam, Sefer ha-Mada ( something I should have done
earlier). In the Yalqut Shinuyei Nusha'ot, The Anthology of Variant
Readings, ad. loc., the editors point out that most of the manuscripts
and some of the printed editions have "karov mi." They then refer the
reader to the Introduction to the Mishneh Torah where the phrase "ahar
hurban ha-bayit be-karov mi-shelosh me'ot shanah" occurs, which can only
mean "about 300 years after the destruction of the Temple."  The editors
in the Yalqut Shinuyei Nusha'ot, ad. loc., then indicate that the phrase
"karov mi" is an Arabism used often by the Rambam, and give many
references. Essentially it seems that the Rambam uses "karov mi" where
we would use "karov le." (For a striking example, see Yesodei ha-Torah
4:5.) In light of this evidence, I now believe that, contrary to what I
wrote earlier, the Rambam in Hilkhot Teshuvah 9:2 in using the phrase
"karov mi-Moshe" means that the Moshiach will be, as we would say,
"karov le-Moshe," i.e., approximately on the same level as Moses, but a
bit less than his stature.

Lawrence Kaplan


From: Paul Ginsburg <GinsburgP@...>
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 07:48:15 -0500 
Subject: Rashi's gravesite?

Here is a question I have had for sometime....

Why don't we know where Rashi is buried?  We know that it is probably
somewhere in France.  Wouldn't it be a safe assumption to think he was
buried in the last town/village he lived in?

We know where other great rabbis who lived hundreds of years before him
are buried.  Why has there never been an interest in where Rashi's
gravesite is?

The answer I usually receive is, he can be found in every Chumash
alongside the parsha.  While this is true - I would still like to find
an answer. [if possible])

Paul W. Ginsburg
Rockville, Maryland


End of Volume 38 Issue 21