Volume 38 Number 30
                 Produced: Sun Jan 12 14:10:48 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Baby Naming
         [Carl Singer]
         [Emmanuel Ifrah]
Cooking for Shabbat (2)
         [David I. Cohen, Ari Trachtenberg]
Food Kitchens and Govt
         [Wendy Baker]
Heimish? (2)
         [Gil Student, Jeanette Friedman]
         [Jonathan Baker]
The Kings Black Slave in Jer38
         [Russell J Hendel]
Lack of Job Training
         [Kenneth H. Ryesky, Esq.]
Lack of job training
         [Chaim Mateh]
Lack of Job Training, Kolel etc
Naming Babies
         [Immanuel Burton]


From: <CARLSINGER@...> (Carl Singer)
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 09:54:02 -0500
Subject: Baby Naming

There are many customs re: "bad" names, etc.

I know in my wife's family the name "Yosef" (Yossel) is not used because
of early deaths, etc.

My mother is named for her Grandfather -- apparently a few boys named
for him died in early childhood, so they tried naming a girl after him.
Thus she's Frima, after Froim (Ephraim.)

I'm sure myriad other customs exist.

One custom I heard from good friends is that the Mother chose the name
of the first child (presumably after someone in her family) and the
Father that of the second, etc.

Carl Singer


From: Emmanuel Ifrah <emmanuel_ifrah@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 03:25:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Censure

Hopefully, not all works published in the Chareidi world are being

In a recent book published by Artscroll ("Shenot Dor va-Dor," 2000), one
can read a letter by the Netziv to Pr. Alexander Harkavy saying the
following: "People should know that I am not a fanatic, nor an opponent
of the Haskala, G-d forbid."  ("Ve-yed'u ki eyneni fanatiker ve-lo
mi-marchikey haskala chass ve-shalom.")

In the following, the Netziv draws a line between good maskilim (such as
Harkavy) and those who, because of Haskala, threw away the Yoke of Tora.

Emmanuel Ifrah


From: <bdcohen@...> (David I. Cohen)
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 11:26:50 -0500
Subject: Cooking for Shabbat

Carl Singer wrote:

"There is the standard of achilos drusah -- food cooked to the point
that a fugitive (on the lam) would eat it.  That is the food needs to be
at least to this point prior to Shabbos.  "

Just to clarify, the term is actually "maachal ben drusai" (ben drusai
was apparently the name of a famous robber or gang of robbers who never
had time to fully cook their food because they were always on the
run). It is an argument among the rishonim as to whether this is
one-half or three-quarters of being fully cooked prior to the onset of
Shabbat.  Carl is correct that raw meat which will no way be ready for
eating before the next day (cholent, for example) can be put up right
before Shabbat, but then you have to prevent the "midnight cholent
eaters" .

David I. Cohen

From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 10:09:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Cooking for Shabbat

>> Look at Shmirat Shabbat in the section you cited Chapter 1 Paragraph 63
> footnote 189 where he cites this exception - when the food is raw. Of
> course this is based on Shulchan Oruch 253:1 and Mishna Breura 10.

As I recall, the mishna specifically cites the cooking of meat.  Raw
soup or vegetables might not conform to this exception.

Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: Wendy Baker <wbaker@...>
Subject: Re: Food Kitchens and Govt

I have been involved in synagogue chesed work for a number of years,
attempting to get food and clothing to the needy, both Jewish and
non-Jewish.  About two years ago I had an idea that would help many
people of all kinds and might help with "Chaverim Kol Yisrael" while
sensitizing all synagogue Jews to the needs of the poor and hungry.
Unfortunately, word events have pushed this aside.

Try this: On what night do the most Jews in the US attend synagogue? Of
course, the answer is Kol Nidre.  Why not have every synagogue, no
matter its affiliation, have a Kol Nidre food drive where every person
can bring a donation of non-perishable food to the synagogue before the
services.  Since this would be a broad effort, each congregation would
decide to whom to give this food, whether to Jewish groups or to local
groups that help all the needy.  Just think of this.  All kinds of Jews
united in an act of Chesed!  In addition, to justify this, I suggest
that we realize that as we fast, we are actually saving money that we
are not spending on the food.  Should we profit financially from our
fast?  Of course, not.  We should spend this money on food for those who
have to fast all the time.

This would take a great deal of organizing that I am not sure I am up
to, but I do have this dream that I would like to see come to fruition.
This is the closest I have come to going "public" with my idea.  I would
like to have your thoughts, either to the group or privately.

Wendy Baker

[The shul I belonged to in Highland Park, NJ has been doing this for the
last several years. Mod.]


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:43:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Heimish?

>OK, I have a question for the New Yorkers on the list. I have been
>reading the Jewish Press off and on for many years, and I have seen
>something very recently that puzzles me. In ads for companies such
>as car services (ie taxi companies,) they describe their drivers as

"Heimish" means chasidish of the Boro Park/Williamsburg variety
(i.e. not Lubavitch).

Gil Student

From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 15:51:25 EST
Subject: Heimish?

Heimish means a person with a special personality. It is not just frum,
it is actually a little bit chassidishe, more like the fishman in Daum
and Rudavsky's film, A Life Apart. He was a heimishe guy, a person you
could be comfortable with, with a frame of reference "you" can handle. A
chasidishe guy with a slight awareness of the real world is the way it
was when I was a kid.

jeanette friedman

From: Jonathan Baker <jjbaker@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:35:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Heimish

No, a code word for "chasidish".  As opposed to, e.g., Dominican or
Russian (two ethnic groups that are well represented among car-service


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 22:59:53 -0500
Subject: RE: The Kings Black Slave in Jer38

Johnathan Chipman in v38n20 demurs to my assertion that an example of
slave that was praised in Tnach was the black slave of the king
mentioned in Jer39:15-18.

Jonathan suggests that the persons name was SLAVE.

First: No major Jewish commentator suggests this.

Second: Several verses use perfectly normal syntax: (eg Jer38-10,12 and
Jer39-16. The person is called EVEN MELECH HA-CUSHI (The Black slave of
the King).  The use of the article HEY is normal here.

Jonathan cites the unusual Jer38:11, EVED MELECH which sounds like a
proper name. I do NOT have an explanation for this. But in light of the
normal usage in the 2 surrounding verses: Jer38-10 & 12 it would appear
that Jer38:11 is simply an abbreviation

In summary: I see no reason to distort the verses from the plain simple
meaning and would challenge Jonathan to give me such a reason.

Russell Jay Hendel; RASHI:http://www.RashiYomi.com/
WEB:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RashiYomi_Job/
EMAIL: <RashiYomi_Job-subscribe@...>


From: Kenneth H. Ryesky, Esq. <khresq@...>
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 10:36:10 -0500
Subject: Lack of Job Training

Tzadik Vanderhoof, discussing the charedi with a large family and no
marketable skills, writes:

"He then shows up at my door asking me to help bail him out of debt and
pay for his daughters' weddings. The only reason I'm in a position to
help him is because I and my parents made the opposite decisions that he
and his family have made."

That, unfortunately, is not the worst of it.  Over the past few years,
there have been a number of high profile (and many not-so-high profile)
criminal cases where supposedly religious Jews (including some rabbis)
have been criminally prosecuted and convicted for crimes involving
monetary fraud.  The defenses have implicitly (if not explicitly) cited
as mitigating or justifying factors the financial pressures upon such

Kenneth H. Ryesky, Esq.
P.O. Box 926, East Northport, NY 11731, USA
631/266-5854 (vox), 631/266-3198 (fax)
E-Mail:  <khresq@...>

From: Chaim Mateh <chaim-m@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 21:37:47 +0200
Subject: Re: Lack of job training

In v38 #24, Tzadik Vanderhoof <tzadikv@...> wrote:
<<This is slightly related to the Rambam/kollel discussion... how do
you all feel about the following *very* common scenario:>>

Stereotyping would say that your scenario is common, and even more
stereotyping would say that it *very* common.

<<An Israeli "heredi" child goes through an educational system /
cultural atmosphere that *gurantees* that he will reach adulthood with
*no* marketable skills.>>

No marketable skills in hi-tech perhaps.  But he does have marketable
skills in the Torah profession (Magid Shiur, Mashgiach, Sofer, Kashrus,
school Menahel, and various other Chinuch areas).  And if he wanted to
go into business, he could.  And to become an electrician or plumber
does not take that long.  OTOH, I would agree with you that there are
more candidates than positions.  But that's true not only in the Torah
porfession, but also in hi-tech.

<<He marries and has a vary large family, again, based on the cultural

I thought it's a Mitzvah (albiet a Rabbinic rather than Biblical), for
ALL Jews, to have as many children as we can?

<< with woefully inadequate means to support them and sends his kids
through the same type of educational system.  He either relies on kollel
or low-paying jobs to support his family.  He also goes deeply in

Either he does go into debt or he doesn't.

<<He then shows up at my door asking me to help bail him out of debt and
pay for his daughters' weddings.>>

Or he makes a very small wedding, and has the children rent rather than
buy an apartment.  BTW, I have friends who are CEOs of companies who
cannot buy apartments for all their children.  What do _they_ do?

<<The only reason I'm in a position to help him is because I and my
parents made the opposite decisions that he and his family have made.>>

The only reason that you're in a position to help him is because Hashem
gave you that opportunity.  I'm sure you can think of some people who
also made "opposite" decisions than that Kollelnik, and are in no better
financial shape than that Kollelnik.  And if you can't think of any, I
know some like that.

IAC, let's take your simplistic scenario at face value and accept that
by learning many hours,days, and years, while not learning marketable
skills, the Kollelnik ends up making lots less money than he who learns
much less in order to learn marketable skills and to get a good job.
That takes care of the gashmius (material) angle.  What about the
ruchniyus (spiritual) angle?  Do many hours, days, and years of intense
Torah study and observance advance a Jew's spirituality and avodas
Hashem?  If we're sticking to your simplistic scenario (and even if
not), the answer IMO is a definative yes.  We obviously have to find the
ideal combination between lots of money and little Torah, and little
money and lots of Torah.  IMO, the first priority should be Torah, with
material needs dealt with also.

IAC, there will always be (and there MUST be) some Jews who will indeed
devote their entire lives to Torah, who will be the shevet Levi of the
generation.  There will always be Torah scholars who will not reach
upper (or lower) middle class.  I will continue to support (as best I
can) those Torah scholars.

Kol Tuv,


From: <rubin20@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:22:19 -0500
Subject: Lack of Job Training, Kolel etc

        A number of posters have written along the line of 'If I don't
approve of the lifestyle/choices some body made I have no responsibility
to give him Tzdakah', alternatively 'He brought it on himself'. I would
appreciate if somebody could find me a Halachic citation justify this
attitude. To the contrary, the Gemran is (BM 9A) quite clear that one
who renounces all his possessions is eligible to collect Leket and Peah
(tithes). The halacha is clear that you are not required to support
somebody that refuse to work/intentionally places himself on the public.
But I don't think that is this case, dose every Kollel or 'Charide'
person collect money!! In essence, these posters are saying that they
don't agree with his past choices (to go to Kollel as opposed to say
college), so they are not required to give him support.


From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 14:50:33 +0000
Subject: RE: Naming Babies

In MJ v38 n24, Karen Cahn wrote:

>So who do you name after first? I'm not sure it matters, though many
>people weigh who they were closer to, who has no one named after them,
>etc. Also, we learn in Parshat Vayetzei, from Leah, that the mother gets
>"first dibs," so to speak, on naming the child. (However, she may give
>this right to her husband)

I once heard that the wife has the deciding vote for the name of the
first child, the husband for the second, the wife for the third, and so
on.  Has anyone else heard this?  I'm afraid I have no idea where to
look this up.

With regards to Leah naming her children, it does indeed seem that the
wife decided her children's names.  However, we see in Parshat
Vayishlach (Genesis 35:18) that Rachel gave the name Ben Oni to Binyomin
as she was dying, but Jacob gave the name Binyomin instead, thereby
over-ruling Rachel's decision.

Immanuel Burton.


End of Volume 38 Issue 30