Volume 38 Number 67
                 Produced: Thu Feb 20  5:34:58 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Anyone can become a Gadol:Quote from Rav||Recent Ed Theory
         [Russell J Hendel]
         [Rabbi Edward F. Goldstein]
Checking Rice (5)
         [Yisrael Medad, Tzvi Harris, Batya Medad, Ephi Dardashti,
Yehonatan Chipman]
Kashrut question
         [Yehonatan Chipman]
Kosher-Keeping Pioneers
Mishloach Manot
         [Batya Medad]
Shabbat Shalom (2)
         [Yisrael Dubitsky, Ephi Dardashti]
Shabbath Shalom=Shabbat-Peace (Adjectival Modification)
         [Russell J Hendel]
What makes a Gadol
         [Sammy Finkelman]


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:06:43 -0500
Subject: Anyone can become a Gadol:Quote from Rav||Recent Ed Theory

Recall that I had suggested based on several sources that (a) everyone
can become a Gadol IF (b) they work hard and continuously and(c) such
things as charisma automatically emanate from serious learning.

Jonathan makes several challenges to this in a posting. However I would
like to answer 2 of them and make one additional comment

Jonathan states
>Russell also knew Rav Soloveitchik ztz"l, probably 
>better than I.(in any event, he attended the Rav's 
>shiurim in Boston more regularly and for more years than I).  
>Would Russell seriously suggest that theRav was who he was 
>only by virtue of his hatmada, and not by virtue of certain 
>gifts, such as a retentive memory, quick grasp of material

Actually I got this notion(that anyone can be a gadol) from the Rav. The
Rav (several times) explicitly stated in Shiur

    >There is no difference between me and any Rosh Yeshiva Any Rosh
    >Yeshiva knows enough techniques so that if they put in enough work
    >they could give shiurs like me

Such statements make an impression on young teenagers. The Rav clearly
stated that knowledge of techniques and hard work is all that is
necessary to give shiurim like him.

Jonathan further asks about the difference between Steinsaltz and a
Jerushalmi Rabbi he knows. Simple: Maybe both know Shas but Steinsaltz
is actually writing a translation. This act of writing is extra work and
is what makes Steinsaltz Steinsaltz.  Every English teacher and writer
knows that the so called gifts of writing frequently develop after
prolonged writing practice.

Finally I would like to mention a recent theory of education called
Attribution theory. Attribution theory states that there are 2 types of
students: (a) students who blaim (attribute) their failures to lack of
gifts and abilities vs (b) students who attribute their failures to lack
of work Attribution theory points out that the type-b students(blaim on
lack of work) have a greater potential for improvement since they
perceive their failure as being attributed to elements of their
environment which they control.

I repeat my basic thesis: If we are to increase our Gedolay Torah then
we must make students aware that it IS within their grasp

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.RashiYomi.com/gn02-11a.htm


From: <BERNIEAVI@...> (Rabbi Edward F. Goldstein)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:44:01 EST
Subject: Re: Bialik

remember...bialik's poem works perfectly in ashkenazic or sefardic
pronunciation. (try it)

Rabbi Edward F. Goldstein


From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:18:19 +0200
Subject: Checking Rice

as for checking rice, my experience has been there are equal parts
danger for foreign (i.e., non-kosher) living things as much as for those
little pebbles that can break a tooth.

Yisrael Medad

From: Tzvi Harris <ltharris@...>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:01:22 +0200
Subject: re: Checking Rice

<<In Israel, I've heard the practice is to check rice three times before
cooking it.
Rose Landowne>>

That is the custom for those who eat rice on Pesach.  Otherwise rice is
checked once, unless you're referring to a custom that I'm not familiar

Tzvi Harris
Talmon, Israel

From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:21:43 +0200
Subject: Re: Checking Rice

      In Israel, I've heard the practice is to check rice three times
      before cooking it.

Not here.  I check once on a white plate for bugs, stones and dark
things, then in water to see if anything peculiar floats to the top.
That's it.  Oh, yeah, I put on my reading specs, or I wouldn't catch a
thing, especially stones that can ruin my teeth.


From: Ephi Dardashti <ephidardashti@...>
Subject: Checking Rice

Where I grew up rice was the staple of our main meal.  We always checked
the rice for bugs, pebbles and other grains.  The checking would take a
life of its own during Pessach, here we had to extra vigilant.

Rice was also always washed.  The rice would be washed at least five
times, the washing would also help remove starch from the grains.  Prior
to cooking the rice it would be left in salted water, the salted water
would also help towards doing away with the starch.

The cleaning, washing and soaking of rice in salted water are three of
the secrets of Persian rice.

From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:46:50 +0200
Subject: Re: Checking Rice

>From what I've heard, the three-fold checking of rice is a minhag of
Sephardim before Pesah who, as they do eat rice, must check it for the
possibility of wheat berries being in the rice, thus causing an issur of
hametz on Pesah if not removed before cooking.  I've never heard of this
stringent practice being observed during the year, in inspection for
bugs or stones -- although of course I could be wrong,.

    Yehonatan Chipman


From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:48:14 +0200
Subject: Re:  Kashrut question

About the question as to what Jews did about eating meat during the
period of Western expansion:

     I recently came across an interesting passage in a book by Israeli
historain Avraham Grossman, "Pious and Rebellious Women;  Jewish Women
in Medieval Europe, 100-1351" (in Hebrew:  Merkaz Shazar, 2001), for
which I am at present preparing an English translation, to be published
by New England University Press-Brandeis.  He states there (pp 332-334)
that in Renaissance Italy, and also in small outlying communitues in
Ashkenaz, women and young maidens sometimes served as shohtot.  He
explains the reason being that in small Jewish communities, or in
vacation spots in the mountains, were many Italain Jewisdh families,
meaning women and children, went in the summer time leaving the men
behind to work in the city (sound familiar?), there were often no
shohtim, and the young girls (and youths) learned and practiced
    The important point here is that we are accustomed to thinking of
shehita in professional terms, as something practiced exclusively by
full-time trained specialists who work in that field as their parnasa.
But in an earlier day, it would seem that the training was more
informal, and ordinary Jews might have learned the laws and the
practicum, been tested by experienced shohtim, and given kabbalah or
penmission to slaughter.  Maybe some of them also did only fowl, which
is both less taxing physically, and also involved less complex laws of
   I've been wondering whether maybe something like this happened in the
American West as well.
   Yehonatan Chipman, Yerushalyim


From: c.halevi <c.halevi@...>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:56:35 -0600
Subject: Kosher-Keeping Pioneers

Shalom, All:

	Despite my kids' opinion, I wasn't alive when pioneers pushed
westward in the U.S. But I do remember reading an account by Harry
Golden, author of "Only In America," about kosher-keeping traders who
carried their wares on their backs. The Indians called them "the
egg-eaters" because they would trade for eggs -- but ate no meat because
it wasn't kosher.

Charles Chi (Yeshaya) Halevi


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:28:13 +0200
Subject: Mishloach Manot

I'm also on another Jewish list, and when I recently mentioned that
mishloach manot should be parve, because it's part of the meal, there
was great surprise.  Can someone please give me halachik backing.



From: Yisrael Dubitsky <yidubitsky@...>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:59:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Shabbat Shalom

Prof. Steiner should have relied on his memory: the critical edition of 
Bialik's poems (edited by Dan Miron, Tel Aviv: Devir, 2000) at vol. 3, p. 
181-185 has the poem and a short bibliographical essay on it. The poem most 
definitely has "shabbat shalom u-mevorakh."

The issue of the phrase was the subject of an article by N. Berggreen in
*Leshonenu La-Am* 24 (1972-73) 3-7 [see the reader responses to that on
pp.  146-148, esp. that of Prof. SY Friedman], reprinted in LL 34
(1982-83) 144-148 [and responded to in by T. Preschel in LL 35
(1983-84): 63].

Yisrael Dubitsky

From: Ephi Dardashti <ephidardashti@...>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:23:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Shabbat Shalom

  Gilad J. Gevaryahu on Mon, 17 Feb 2003 wrote:

<<Alan Cooper brings the quote from the Shel"ah Ha-Kadosh were Shabbat
Shalom is used (with an indication that he received this tradition from
others), and so does Yael Levine Katz in the name of the Ar"i Ha-Kadosh
(1534-1572). We do not know if the Ar"i wrote the book brought by Dr.
Levine Katz, as it was put together by his disciple Hayim Vital
(1542-1620) a contemporary of the Shel"ah (1565?-1630) in Safed. So we
see that Shabbat Shalom, was a common greeting in Safed. Was is coined
by the Lurianic school or was it a common expression before their time?>>

I would like to confirm that the Lurianic tradition is indeed a strong
element.  As a child in Teheran I remember chanting at the Shabbat

Shabbat Shalom, Shabbat Shalom, aleykhem ha shalom malakhey ha shalom,
malakhey elyonm malakhey rahamim mi melelkh malkhey ha melakihm.....

It was undestood that we were first had to greet Shabbat twice by
addressing her and saying Shabbat Shalom, Shabbat Shalom from there we
went on to greet the angels who accompanied her.  These angels were the
angels of ha shalom, elyon, sharet and rahamim.  The rites of the Jews
of Iran / Persia have been greatly influenced by Sepharadi rites over
the past 70 years and in the last 20 years or so by Ashkenazi rites so
much so that siddurim printed for the use of this community omit Shabbat
Shalom, Shabbat Shalom and any reference to malakhey rahamim.

I have checked with two elderly sources in Los Angeles andf they have
both confirmed that in their households they greeted Shabbat twice.  The
influence they confirm is kabbalistic.


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:04:51 -0500
Subject: Shabbath Shalom=Shabbat-Peace (Adjectival Modification)

In response to Gilads scholarly explanation of Shabbat Shalom (v38n63)
what would be wrong with a simple suggestion that Shabbat is
adjectival. Thus Shalom is an abbreviation of PEACE ONTO YOU hence
Shabbath Shalom would be an abbreviation of SHABBATH PEACE ONTO YOU. The
idea would be that Shabbath Peace is different than ordinary
peace. After all you could have peace but still have to work long hours
and have an annoying boss.  Shabbath Peace would be a peace that ALSO
involves freedom from economic worries--so Shabbath Shalom would be an
adjectival modification of Shalom.

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.RashiYomi.com/gn02-11a.htm


From: Sammy Finkelman <sammy.finkelman@...>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 03 13:40:00 -0400
Subject: What makes a Gadol

There is one thing I that is worth adding.

In this week's Sedrah, Ki Sisah, does it not say, Shemos 31:2 (Hashem
speaking to Moshe these approximate words) See, I have called by name,
Betzalel, the son of Uri, the son of Chur, of the tribe of Yehuda. And I
filled him with the spirit of God (Ruach Elohim) in wisdom, in
understanding, in knowledge and in all kinds of work. To think thoughts,
to do things with gold, and silver, and copper. And in cutting of stones
for setting, and carving wood - to do things in all kinds of work.

So we see from here the idea that there *is* extra talent that some
people have - only we must realize it owes itself to Hashem.

And the gemorah that said you should not believe anyone that said he
worked and he did not accomplish - what that's saying is if someone
spends time on studying, he should get something out of it, and
maybe also that it is not that hard. It was just saying you shouldn't
believe someone who said that he tried and he did not learn anything-
he wasn't working on it. Of course Chazal beleived that some people were
better than others - or why was that Mishnah in Pirkei Avos (1:8)
about the Talmidim of R. Yochanan ben Zakkai included - and I don't
think you would find any commentator anywhere that would have a
question on it - what how is it some pupils were better than others -
or that someone had this ability- there is only contriversy over just
what he meant and which quality was really the better one. R Eliezer is
a cistern that loses not a drop...

I think R. Eliezer was able to memorize and R. Elazar had Chiddushim or
at least the ability to relate things to one another.


End of Volume 38 Issue 67