Volume 38 Number 73
                 Produced: Sun Mar  2 22:35:36 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

chalav yisroel / non-chalav yisroel oven use
Dressing Munkacs Style
         [Jeanette Friedman]
Falling on left side for tahanun in shaharit
         [Haim Shalom Snyder]
Kosher-Keeping Pioneers
         [Joseph I. Lauer]
Lo Sisgodedu (2)
         [David Waxman, Chaim Wasserman]
Nun Hafuchah - Terminal Nun OVERTURNS meanings
         [Alex Heppenheimer]
Phillips shaver gets hechsher
         [Joseph Mosseri]
Purim question
         [Irwin Weiss]
Quote from the Rav
         [Yitschak Maser]
Rambam, Jews, and Boxing
         [Josh Backon]
Rav Ezra HaNavi
         [Gil Student]
Tanach Plus program
         [Michael Poppers]
Waiting for Kaddish
         [Shmuel Himelstein]


From: <Smwise3@...>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:41:14 EST
Subject: chalav yisroel / non-chalav yisroel oven use

I just heard a  psak that I wonder if anyone else has heard.  A friend of my 
wife's says she was told that if someone uses the friend's oven to bake 
something that is non chalav yisroel and then the friend bakes something 
chalav yisroel in it without first self cleaning, one must not use the chalav 
yisroel baked good because of the previous non chalav yisroel use.



From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:29:49 EST
Subject: Dressing Munkacs Style

In addition to saying you can't wear a tie, the Minchas Elozer also
said, your buttons have to button from the correct side, you can't wear
short jackets, and you have to put your right shoe on first, before you
put on the left shoe, and you should tie the left shoe before you tie
the right shoe.

This I got from one of his chassidim who knew him well.
My Uncle Eugene.

Jeanette Friedman


From: <Busi.Intel@...> (Haim Shalom Snyder)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:01:14 +0200
Subject: Falling on left side for tahanun in shaharit

In Vol38#69, Mark Steiner asked
"By the way, does anyone have information on the practice of a famous
rav to fall on his LEFT side during tahanun in the morning, despite his
wearing tefillin on that side, even if everybody else was doing the

I don't have any direct knowledge of a present-day rav following this
practise, but it is brought in "Maase Rav" (R' Haim meVolozhin's book on
the Vilna Gaon's practises) in Chapter 50 (nun).  Since Rav Soloveitchik
was a Brisker and the Brisker were known to keep the customs and
practises of the Vilna Gaon, it is quite possible that he did this.
Since I never davened with the Rav, I can't say whether he did or

Haim Shalom Snyder


From: Joseph I. Lauer <josephlauer@...>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:46:09 -0500
Subject: Kosher-Keeping Pioneers

    In MJ 38:67 Charles Chi (Yeshaya) Halevi (<c.halevi@...>) wrote:
> ... I do remember reading an account by Harry
> Golden, author of "Only In America," about kosher-keeping traders who
> carried their wares on their backs. The Indians called them "the
> egg-eaters" because they would trade for eggs -- but ate no meat because
> it wasn't kosher.

    In MJ 38:66 Frank Silbermann (<fs@...>) also wrote:
> I recall reading that 19th century Indians referred to Jewish peddlers
> passing through as the "egg eaters."  Apparently, when the first German
> Jewish peddlers passed through Indian territory and were offered food
> for goods, they only wanted hard boiled eggs.

     In MJ 38:71 Dov Teichman (<DTnLA@...>) responded to C. Halevi's
posting regarding trading for eggs, stating:
> If they observed halacha fully, i'm sure they did not trade for
> hardboiled eggs, as that would still have the problem of Bishul Akum
> attached.

    Unfortunately, I could not find the "egg-eater" anecdote in a rapid
scanning of Harry Golden's "Only In America" and believe that it may
have been told in his "For 2 [cents]Plain".  In any event, my memory of
the anecdote (having read it decades ago) is that Golden wrote that the
Jewish peddlers carried hard-boiled eggs with them, eggs that they had
prepared at home before leaving on their treks, and were thus known to
the American Indians as the "egg-eaters".

    One of Golden's stories in "Only in America" ("You never saw a
Yenkee?", pp. 117-18) concerned Meshullachim in the American South many
years ago.  Golden wrote, in part, about the Meshullach (who he defined
as an "agent or deputy sent by accredited Jewish institutions to collect
funds"): "His pockets were always bulging--on one side, his papers,
receipts, and notebooks, and in the other, a package with slices of
bread and the usual hard-boiled eggs.  This was an emergency ration in
case he couldn't find the synagogue sexton or if the president of the
shul was out of town; then the meshullach could take his lunch without
worrying about eating nonkosher food somewhere."

    So, hard-boiled eggs have had a long and noble place in American
Jewish history, right up to our very own time!

    Be well!
    Joseph I. Lauer
    Brooklyn, New York 


From: David Waxman <yitz99@...>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:41:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Lo Sisgodedu

>     By the way, does anyone have information on the practice of a famous
>rav to fall on his LEFT side during tahanun in the morning, despite his
>wearing tefillin on that side, even if everybody else was doing the

I don't know about this story, but I have seen Rav Sternbuch Shlita do
this.  I must point out however, that he did it in the shul that he
presides over, which happens to be named the G`ra. The G`ra poskens that
one should fall on the left side with or without tefillin, unless there
is an issue of Lo Sisgodedu.

David I. Waxman
Phone: 972-2-651-7814
Cell: 972-55-277-814
Email: <yitz99@...>

From: <Chaimwass@...> (Chaim Wasserman)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:09:37 EST
Subject: Re: Lo Sisgodedu

I am certain that the famous rav who recited Tachanun while on his left hand 
with tefillin was no one less a person that the Vilna Gaon.



From: Alex Heppenheimer <aheppenh@...>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:38:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Nun Hafuchah - Terminal Nun OVERTURNS meanings

In MJ 38:69, Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...> wrote:

>First: One strong source of Mesorah details are the marginal notes that
>occur both on the side and bottom of good Chumashim. These marginal
>notes contain no mention of the NUN hafuchah. Similarly, the codexes
>that we rely on such as the Leningrad codex do not have the NUN
>hafuchah. Therefore it would appear that there is no reason to believe
>there was ever a NUN hafuchah and it would be preferable to reinterpret
>Rashi IF that is possible.

I'm no Masorah expert, but note that Minchas Shai on this verse cites
Sefer Tagi as stating that the nun of "be-Charan" is to be written as [
(a literal "backwards nun" - and a medial nun at that!). IIRC, Sefer
Tagi is attributed to Eli HaKohen, and is a recognized Masoretic source.

>Other examples on NUN=INTENSE are presented on the Rashi website such 
>as ZIKARON (Memorial-Memory), GICHON (Raging rapids-Goring).  Applying
>this to Gn11-32 I would simply say that CHR means ANGER while CHARN 
>means INTENSE ANGER. So Terach who lived after the massive 
>destructions of the flood and Babel named his son after the INTENSE
>(NUN) ANGER that had come to the world

>We have one thing left: We simply must translate Rashis NUN HAFUCHAH as
>the OVERTURNING NUN since the terminal NUN OVERTURNS the meaning of the
>word and makes it more intense.

With all due respect, I have to disagree with this argument on several

1. Making something more intense is hardly the same as overturning it;
it's hard to see how "intense anger" is the opposite of plain "anger."

2. If Rashi simply meant to point out that the nun of "Charan" signifies
intense anger, then we would expect him to have attached this comment to
the previous verse, where this placename is first mentioned.

3. As far as I can tell from a quick search, Rashi never uses "hafuchah"
elsewhere to mean a letter added to a basic word form: his standard
expression for this is "x yeseirah" (see, for example, Rashi to
Bereishis 17:11). Indeed, I haven't found any other place where Rashi
speaks of an "x hafuchah" at all.

Incidentally, the name of Terach's son would seem to be unrelated to
this whole issue, as it's spelled differently - with a hei rather than a
ches - and hence would presumably not denote any form of anger, intense
or not (although the nun may well indicate intensification of whatever
the root "HR" means in this context).

Kol tuv,


From: Joseph Mosseri <joseph.mosseri@...>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:09:31 -0500
Subject: Phillips shaver gets hechsher

[Forwarded from a posting of Josh Backon's on the Areivim List]

Where else but in Israel can one read the financial section of the
YEDIOT newspaper and read that Phillips electric shavers (model #'s
6000, 7000, and 8000) just got a hechsher from the former Sefardi Rav
Rashi, Rav Mordechai Eliyahu. He and his bet din went to the factory
in Holland and saw close up photos of the shaver "blades".



From: Irwin Weiss <irwin@...>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:09:17 -0500
Subject: Purim question

Just occurred to me that we don't light candles for Purim.  We do for
Shabbat, we do for Chagim, and we do for Chanukah (the latter being

So, how come we don't light candles for Purim?

Irwin E. Weiss, Esq.


From: Yitschak Maser <simone.maser@...>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:52:59 +0100
Subject: Re: Quote from the Rav

 Shlomo Pick wrote in v38n69

Maimonides in Moreh Nevukhim writes that an angel comes and wakes up the
Jew in the middle of the night and asks him: Would you like to learn the
entire Babylonian Talmud? The man replies, "Of course." ... Do you
really want all this? Of course - who wouldn't?  So wake up, turn on the
light and start learning! The Jew replies, "No, I am lazy."

And then Shlomo asks: Is there any other source for this story or some
similar one?

And concludes: the Rav probably "translated" it into Lithuanian yeshiva
terms for purposes of his drasha and audience.

This reminded me of a (good Litvishe?) Yiddish formulation, recorded by
Rabbi Emanuel Feldman in Tradition about 8 years ago. In his editor's
note entitled "Talmud Happily Ever After" he wrote:

The Talmud is not for dabblers, reminiscent of the perhaps apocryphal
comment of the great Rabbi who complained that :

Yeder yid vill verren a talmid chacham in ein nacht - abber die nacht
vill er zich gut ois-schlaffen

Every Jew would like to become a Talmud scholar overnight -- but during
that night he would like to have a good night's sleep!!

Yitschak Maser
Montpellier, France


From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Thu,  27 Feb 2003 15:10 +0200
Subject: Re: Rambam, Jews, and Boxing

If two Jews decide to enter into the boxing ring and one is injured, the
one whois injured isn't entitled to compensation. See: Shulchan Aruch
Choshen Mishpat 421:5. As the Aruch haShulchan there (CM 421 #3)
indicates "shenitavku yachad birtzonam" (it was of their own free will)
and they both forgive each other ("u'machalu zeh la'zeh"). The same
would be in effect for the martial arts.

Josh Backon


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:26:24 -0500
Subject: Rav Ezra HaNavi

As to the question of whether R' Ezra HaNavi was actually a navi, it
seems in all likelihood that this was just a term used to describe his
holiness and great ruach hakodesh, not necessarily his status as a
prophet.  This is especially so considering that, according to the
Gemara, prophecy ended with Malachi and, additionally, R' Ezra HaNavi
did not live in Eretz Yisrael.

I discuss these issues in article #2 at
http://moshiachtalk.tripod.com/articles.html.  In addition, see what Rav
Kook wrote in Mishpat Kohen 96 about the Ra'avad.

Gil Student


From: <MPoppers@...> (Michael Poppers)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:19:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Tanach Plus program

There's a very useful program called Tanach Plus -
http://www.jewishsoftware.com/products/336.asp - which, among other
things, allows you to search for verses beginning and ending with
certain letters. I found all of the above citations using this program.

--Michael Poppers via RIM pager


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:22:17 +0200
Subject: Waiting for Kaddish

Carl Singer, parenthetically, brings up an interesting issue.

Toward the beginning of Shacharit, there is a Kaddish d'Rabbanan and (in
the Ashkenaz Nusach) Kaddish Yatom.

What should be done if there is no Minyan present at the time? Wait a
few minutes for a Minyan so that the kaddish-sayers will be able to say
kaddish? Or simply start regardless and skip that kaddish or those

My personal preference is to have the congregation begin at the assigned
time regardless, because - among others - of Tirchah d'Tzibbura - the
need not to keep the community waiting.

I would once state that this is my position in spite of the fact that I
am not a Yekke, but a recent genealogical book published on the
Himelstein family shows that it originated in Bavaria, so maybe it's in
my genes...

Shmuel Himelstein


End of Volume 38 Issue 73