Volume 39 Number 87
                 Produced: Mon Jun 23  5:29:03 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Book on Keilim
         [Reuben Rudman]
Duchening (The priestly blessing)
         [Joel Rich]
Engagement Announcement
         [Michael Frankel]
Erub and Bicycles
         [Reuben Rudman]
Ethical Behavior and Halacha
         [Yakov Spil]
Kohein's liability for invalidating a Korban
         [Dov Teichman]
Kosher lo-carb snack bars?
         [Janice Gelb]
Mesora during the Shoftim period
         [Shraga Rubin]
Pictures/illustrations to help understanding Mishnah Keilim? (2)
         [Shimon Lebowitz, Dov Teichman]
Standing for Blessings
         [Yisrael Medad]
         [Ira L. Jacobson]
         [Yisrael Medad]
Where do words come from?
         [Tobias Robison]


From: Reuben Rudman <rudman@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:12:34 -0400
Subject: Book on Keilim

In MJ V39#85, Paul Ginsburg  asks about any pictorial aids for studying
Mishnayos Keilim.

There is a sefer called Mar'os Cha'yim that has excellent pictures and
diagrams covering all 30 chapters of Keilim.  It was written by Yeshaya
Steinberg, Rehov Imrei Binah 16, Jerusalem and published in 1993.  It is
a full-sized (about 12"x8") hard covered 256-page book. Clear and


From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 05:20:41 EDT
Subject: Duchening (The priestly blessing)

Does anyone know the reason for the cohanims' nigun sung during
duchening?  There are sources that discuss the issue of saying
psukim/RBS"O during their nigun, but which came first-ie was the nigun
added so that the kahal could say something while not breaking into the
actual bracha or was the nigun always there and it was thus convenient
to allow something to be said.  If the latter, why don't the cohanim
sing their nigun on shabbat(perhaps so as not to confuse the Kahal?)

Joel Rich


From: Michael Frankel <michaeljfrankel@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:47:53 -0400
Subject: Engagement Announcement

Mechy and Sheila Frankel of Silver Spring, MD are pleased to announce
the engagement of their daughter Naomi to Jeremy Schnittman of
Rochester, NY.  Nomi and Jeremy may be spotted (24/6) on onlysimchas.com


Mechy Frankel			W: (703) 845-2357
<michael.frankel@...>		H: (301) 593-3949


From: Reuben Rudman <rudman@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 18:00:09 -0400
Subject: Erub and Bicycles

>From MJ V39#85:
>If you're not aware of it there is a New Bet Yosef Mehisssot Erub in
>Brooklyn that was erected in Brooklyn by the Sephardic Rabbinical
>Council and the backing of Rabbi Obadiah Yosef.

In light of the recent thread regarding riding a bicycle on Shabbos, the
caveat accompanying the map of this new Erub, presumably according to
the direction of Rav Obadiah Yosef states:

Outdoor activities that violate the spirit of Shabbat remain prohibited,
such as certain adult sports activities. One should not ride a
bicycle. No prohibited category of melakha on Shabbat besides carrying
is permitted by the erub. Mukseh items remain mukseh and are not to be

Also, I noticed in that thread that mention was not made of the fact
that adults (i.e., past the age of Bar or Bat Mitzva) should not engage
in exercise as this is in violation of the Positive precepts of Shabbos.
It seems to me that bicycle riding is certainly in the realm of
exercise.  [See Shemirat Shabbos K'Hilchasa, section of Care of the
Body, 14:38 - One should not as a rule perform physical exercises on
Shabbos or Yom Tov.]


From: Yakov Spil <yspil@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:51:44 -0400
Subject: Ethical Behavior and Halacha

>People talk about what *is* important to them.  Thus many people can
discuss endlessly their hobbies or sports.  Older people can delight in
talking about their grandchildren.  And there are many stories of
gedolim visiting each other and spending perhaps the whole night
"talking in lerning."<

The examples you bring are not what we are talking about.  Those are
mitzvos.  To delight in the treasures of our gedolim and their hanhogos
is our very lives.  And gedolim who got together to learn- that's what
we are created to do!

What we are not created to do, or have the choice to choose to or not,
is what we TALK about.  What we make conversation about. There are some
people no matter when you see them, they make conversation about what
someone did to them.  And others no matter when can't stop talking about
themelves- what they have done- what they would like to do etc.

Believe it or not- there are some things people like to keep private,
maybe partly due to anivus, but more is a mida of tzinus I think.  Rav
Brevda brings examples like someone who doesn't talk about their
business because that is private- but the tzedokoh he gives- that he
wants everyone to know what a big baal tzedoko he is.

On the other hand, someone else will go on and on about how business
isn't so good, but when you ask him does he have time to learn or and
support yeshivos- he says- oh, I have no time for that.  And meanwhile,
he is kovea itim l'Torah and he gives more than his share of maaser.
But because this is so deeply important to him, he brushes it off so no
one should think he might be someone special.

I propose this is based in the mida of tzinus, and secondary is anivus.




From: <DTnLA@...> (Dov Teichman)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:35:55 -0400
Subject: Kohein's liability for invalidating a Korban

Art Werschulz writes:

> Suppose the kohein invalidates a qorban, thereby causing a loss to the
> qorban's owner.  Is the kohein liable for such damage?  Does it matter
> whether the damage is intentional or non-intentional, or whether the
> damage is due to an action or an intention?

I believe this case, along with other examples, is discussed in Masechta
Bava Kamma 5a, where it discusses whether "hezek she'eino nikar shmei
hezek" or not. (Is intangible damage considered damage?) It seems from
the Rambam in Hilchos Chovel Umazik Chapter 7, that a kohen who is
Mefagel is not liable mideoraysa for the damage he caused, but the
Rabbis force him to repay as a Knas the damage he incurred. This only
appplies to damage done deliberately, not accidental.

Dov Teichman


From: Janice Gelb <j_gelb@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 11:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Kosher lo-carb snack bars?

Art Werschulz <agw@...>
> Has anybody out there found any kosher low-carb snack bars?  Thanks.

Deliciously Slim bars are low-carb and kosher. I found them through
Kosher Vitamin Express but there is a much better price at:


-- Janice


From: <BaalHaIkvei@...> (Shraga Rubin)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 16:33:55 -0400
Subject: Mesora during the Shoftim period

In MJ 39:84 <Yisyis@...> commented

"The shoftim were supposed to be the roshei yeshiva but it would seem
that they were chosen more for their leadership and military skills."

Osniel ben Knaz, the first shofet, was the one who proved though pilpul
hundreds of forgotten halachos after Moshe was niftar.

But in any case, the reason why we don't have a mesora of chidushai
Torah from the shoftim is because they were relatively right after
Sinai, when so much more was so much clearer.  Our chidushim come from
uncertainty; because we don't know, we must assume and prove.  Back
then, that wasn't the case.

"A person with emunah, believes that the mesorah was an unbroken chain
from Moshe all the way to the present.  However, this era, seems to be
the weakest link of the chain.  Can anybody help me out?"

The Rambam in the introduction to the Mishna Torah list the
mesora. Moshe to Yehoshua to Pinchas to Eli to Shmuel to Dovid to Achiya
HaShiloni etc.

Shraga Rubin


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:00:29 +0200
Subject: Re: Pictures/illustrations to help understanding Mishnah Keilim?

Paul Ginsburg <GinsburgP@...> asked:

> Does anyone know of a good reference with
> illustrations/pictures to accompany this? (i.e. pictures of the
> earthenware ovens, stoves, utensils, etc.  which are described in
> Mishnah Keilim).  

I am currently *also* learning Keilim (what a coincidence <g>) and am
very happy with the sefer my father lent me. It is called "Kuntres
Tavnit Keilim" by Rav Eliezer Posen, of London.

Contact information is given for:
London, Gateshead, Bnei Berak, Kiryat Sefer, Yerushalayim,
and USA: Yitzchak Posen, (914)425-0062

Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://www.poboxes.com/shimonpgp

From: <DTnLA@...> (Dov Teichman)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:54:57 -0400
Subject: Pictures/illustrations to help understanding Mishnah Keilim?

I have two. 

One is a sefer called Mar'os Chaim. It is easily available in seforim
stores. There is even a second volume with illustrations to help study
Tractate Ohalos.

The second is called Tavnis Keilim by Rav Pozen in England, and is
really 3 soft cover booklets, each containing 10 chapters (bava kama,
bava metsiya, bava basra; as Keilim is divided in the Tosefta).

I think Tavnis Keilim is structured more neatly. But really they both
had great diagrams and often a few diagrams of one case according to
different meforshim. It is also interesting to see how the 2 books
differ in the illustration of one case. So I found them both invaluable
for the study of Masechta Keilim.

Dov Teichman


From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:12:47 +0200
Subject: Standing for Blessings

      <chips@...> writes
      Did the Rav offer any explaination for Sefardim sitting down for
      `lehaneach teffilin` ?

This is a Kabbalistic instruction as the tefillin of the yad are
considered to represent Malchut, and a King sits.

Yisrael Medad


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:17:07 +0300
Subject: Re: Superstition

> > I've heard of this one. Our Rov will not blow out candles as,
> > apparently, the sound of the blowing creates "Mazikim" [damaging
> > forces]. That's definitely not superstition.
>Saying its not superstition doesn't mean it isn't.  Rambam definitely
>wouldn't agree.  What makes something superstition or not?

My understanding is that the sound made when one blows out a candle is
identical to the name of one of the sheidim, and for that reason certain
Jews refrain form doing so.



From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:15:54 +0200
Subject: Vaccination

      From: Barak Greenfield, MD <DocBJG@...> wrote

      Although the anti-vaccine crowd is quite self-assured, the fact
      remains that the broad consensus of physicians is that children
      should be vaccinated.  Therefore, those who refuse to do so are
      putting their children's health in the hands of their own medical
      knowledge, in opposition to the vast majority of experts who

There is a significant street ad campaign here in Jerusalem, with a
Haredi father-figure in the background with an infant up front, to get
parents to vaccinate their children.



From: Tobias Robison <trobison@...>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:04:43 -0400
Subject: Where do words come from?

I'm writing in response to speculations about word derivations, such as:

> I read somewhere that Yenta comes from Juanita.
> I once heard that the word kuntros comes from a latin word comentarius.

I'd like to remind everyone that determining the derivation of a word
involves finding a historical trail of actual usage. A proposed
derivation may sound incredibly clever or sensible, but cleverness does
not count for much in this field. For example, many of my relatives were
convinced that a "butterfly" used to be called a "flutterby". You can
imagine how appealing this might sound, but the historical record in the
OED utterly trashes the idea.

Clever ideas about word derivation can also clash with someone else's
clever and different derivation. See this web page:
http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/okay.htm For twenty-five (!) reasonable
and conflicting derivations of the word "okay".  If pure logic is to
determine word derivation, I definitely want a ringside seat at the
"okay" playoffs.

The OED is a good place to start examining word derivations, because
this dictionary collects very old uses of every word. Here are some
illustrative comments about "gentile":

The OED (first edition) quotes gentile as a noun in 1385 (the writer is
John Wycliffe), and as an adjective in 1400. There are several quotes
from the 1400's. The OED feels that the word is derived from from the
latin word Gens, appearing in the Vulgate Bible (over 1600 years ago),
moving through French to English. Gens means "nation" (note the
similarity of meaning to gentile).  There are Latin (I believe) and
French forms from Gens that include both the T and the L.

In order to show that Gentile is derived from Yenta and Yentl, we have
to find written sources using these words and showing a possible
transition. In fact, which word is older? You can find speculation on
the web that Yenta and Yentl are derived from Gentile, not the other way

"Juanita" faces the same challenge. Is the word older, and can we find
uses showing any sort of transition to Gentile?  It would seem hard to
find a historical trail that will look as convincing as Gens (latin)->
Gentil (french) ->Gentile (english).


End of Volume 39 Issue 87