Volume 40 Number 29
                 Produced: Thu Jul 31  6:30:14 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Adama and Eretz
         [Jonathan Groner]
         [Avi Feldblum]
Big and Small Mitzvot
         [Ben Katz]
Carrying on Yom Tov.
         [Immanuel Burton]
Carrying on Yom Tov
         [Akiva Miller]
key rings on Yom Tov
         [Steven Oppenheimer]
         [Michael Kahn]
Tzizit and 613 Mitzvot
         [Carl Singer]
Using an Eiruv on Yom Tov
         [Perets Mett]


From: Jonathan Groner <jgroner@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:21:39 -0400
Subject: Adama and Eretz

In further response to Yaakov Fogelman and others, it seems to me that
just as the language of the "Hamotzi" blessing was taken from Psalms
104:14, the language of the "Adama" blessing was taken from B'reishit
4:3, where Cain is said to have brought his offering "mi-pri
ha-adama". This was pointed out to me recently by Rabbi Amnon Haramati,
whom many list readers will know for his long association with the
Yeshivah of Flatbush.

Jonathan Groner


From: Avi Feldblum <mljewish@...>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 05:25:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Administrivia

Hello All,

mail-jewish will likely be off the air from now till Sunday. I will be
going to LA area to celebrate my nephew's Bar Mitzvah. We will be there
for a while after the Bar Mitzvah, but I expect to be back on the air from
LA by Sunday.

Avi Feldblum
mail-jewish Moderator


From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:02:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Big and Small Mitzvot

>From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
>The question of big vs small mitzvahs has come up in several issues
>(v40n12-16). I think it would be better to formulate this as conflicts
>between mitzvahs (rather than qualifying it as conflicts between big and
>small mitzvahs).

         Aside from Dr. Hendel's specific examples, there is the larger
philosophical/common sensical issue: If everything is equally important,
then nothing is truly important.  And remember, we say every day in the
morning : vetalmud Torah keneged kulam.


From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:21:20 +0100
Subject: RE: Carrying on Yom Tov.

Further to the various postings in MJ v40n25:

The article by Rabbi Doniel Neustadt referred to by Chaim Tatel appears
in The Monthly Halachah Discussion volume 3 by Rabbi Doniel Yehuda
Neustadt (published by Feldheim).

Rabbi Neustadt discusses various aspects of carrying on Yom Tov, and
says that many authorities hold that one may carry only the key that is
needed for opening the entrance door to one's house.  If there are other
keys on the same ring, they must be removed before Yom Tov.  The source
quoted for this is Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 5:35, and so with respect to
my posting in v40n21, I stand corrected.

However, Rabbi Neustadt goes on to say that some authorities are more
lenient and permit the carrying of an entire bunch of keys:
 Minchas Yitzchok 8:30.
 Harav Y S Elyashiv - Mevakshei Torah, Yom Tov, page 268.
 Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchosoh 19, note 14.
 Teshuvos ve'Hanogos 1:348.

(I haven't got my Hebrew copy of Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchosh to hand,
and the reference to 19 note 14 doesn't appear to be a valid one for the
English edition that I have.)

The same discussion (in The Monthly Halachah Discussion volume 3) also
said the following about carrying keys on Yom Tov:

One may not carry a key on Yom Tov if one's house has a combination lock.

If there is someone at home who is readily available to answer the door,
one may not carry a key.

One who wears a key on a Shabbos belt on Shabbos should do so on Yom
Tov.  I have to confess I don't understand the reasoning here, as
wearing the key on a Shabbos belt isn't carrying, and so can't be
compared to an act of carrying.  Or does this mean that since one has a
way of transporting one's key without carrying it one should?

I discussed the concept of Marbeh Be'Shiurim [lit. increase in amount]
with my chavrusah last night.  An example of this concept is that since
one may cook some food on Yom Tov, one may cook lots of food, i.e. since
one may cook a chicken leg for dinner, one may cook the whole chicken at
the same time.  Likewise, since one may carry tissues, one may carry the
whole box.  I think the difference with regards to a bunch of keys was
explained quite nicely by Gershon Dubin in MJ v40n25 in response to my
posting in MJ v40n21, namely that one could in theory use any of the
tissues in the box, but one isn't going to have a need for the other
keys on the bunch.

A friend of mind told me that he doesn't like carrying a bunch of keys
on Yom Tov as he doesn't feel it appropriate to clank around like a

Akiva Miller quoted Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchosoh:

19:5) A walking-stick for one who is able to walk without it.

I remember we discussed in school whether a blind man may carry his
white stick on Shabbos, as he is physically capable of walking without
one.  Our teacher told us that since psychologically he needs his white
stick, he may carry it on Shabbos.  This reasoning may be extendable to
include someone who's not that steady on their feet and would feel
better having a stick to hand.

Immanuel Burton.

From: <kennethgmiller@...> (Akiva Miller)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:34:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Carrying on Yom Tov

In MJ 40:25, I wrote in my last paragraph: <<< In addition, I believe the
Mishna Berura would forbid a person to carry his housekey outside, if
there is someone at home who he can rely on to let him in. >>>

I neglected to include my source for this, which is MB 518:6, especially
the bracketed portion near the middle.

Akiva Miller


From: Steven Oppenheimer <oppy49@...>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:58:07 -0400
Subject: key rings on Yom Tov

A previous posting stated:

> The rule is really quite simple: although halacha does not require the
> melacha to be for the purpose of food, it does have to be for *a*
> purpose of Yom Tov.  This means, for example, that one may not carry a
> ring of keys that includes car or office keys if all one needs for Yom
> Tov is the house key.

To which Yehuda Landy responded:

>The first case (key chain) you mentioned is correct.

IMHO this is not necessarily the halacha.  When there is an Eruv, one may
carry afilu mah she'aino letzorech hayom, even if it is not for a Yom
Tov purpose (Chayei Adam 96:2). 

When there is no Eruv, the question revolves around the issue of ribui
be'shiurim, increasing an amount beyond that which is needed for Yom

Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, zt'l, states in his Iggerot Moshe (2:103) that
one may carry a pack of 20 cigarettes for, example, even though he may
only need 10 cigarettes for the day.  This is because it is considered
'chad tircha hu', only one action is involved in carrying the pack of
cigarettes.  This concept is codified in the Shulchan Aruch, O.Ch. 503. 
While on Shabbat, ribui be'shiurim constitutes a Torah prohibition, it
is permitted on Yom Tov (Ran on Beitza 17a). 

Rabbi Feinstein, however, makes a distinction between the cigarettes and
keys on a key chain.  The cigarettes are different, maintains Rabbi
Feinstein, because one could smoke any one of them and so all are
permitted to be taken out in the pack.  The keys, on the other hand, are
not interchangeable in the sense that any one may be used.  Only
specific ones may be used on Yom Tov.  For example, a car key or an
office key would not have a Yom Tov purpose and, therefore, Rabbi
Feinstein writes to his grandson, Rabbi Mordechai Tendler (Responsum
O. Ch. 5:35) that one must remove from the keychain the keys that are
not needed.

This is, however, not the last word on the subject.  Rabbi Yehoshua
Neuwirth, writing in his Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata (19:6) permits
carrying a box of cigarettes or a box of matches on Yom Tov even if one
only needs a portion of the cigarettes or matches.  Furthermore, states
Rabbi Neuwirth, one may carry on Yom Tov a key ring full of keys even if
only one key is needed for Yom Tov and the other keys have no Yom Tov
purpose (footnote 14).  For those who might suggest that a car key, for
example, is Muktzeh since when you open the car door the light in the
car goes on, no less an authority than Rabbi Sh. Z. Auerbach, zt'l,
states that it is not Muktzeh, because a key is used to open a door (a
permitted activity) irrespective of the fact that a light goes on when
you open the door.  Therefore, the key is not Muktzeh according to Rabbi
Auerbach (Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata, chap. 20, footnote 254).

Rabbi Gavriel Zinner, author of the multi-volume 'Nitei Gavriel,' states
in his Hilchot Yom Tov (Vol 1, page 180) that the Minhag Ha'olam, the
prevalent halachic custom, is to be lenient regarding carrying a key
ring full of keys or for a woman to take out a baby carriage with items
in the pockets that may not be needed for Yom Tov.  He bases his
halachic position on the following:

1) Ribui beshiurim is permitted on Yom Tov according to the Ran
(mentioned above) and Rashba (Chulin 17b, d.h. HaMevashel).  The Chafetz
Chaim in his sefer 'Machane Yisrael' (31:2) and Rabbi Tzvi Pesach Frank,
zt'l in his Responsa Har Tzvi also permit Ribui Be'shiurim on Yom Tov.
2) Tosafot (Shabbat 90a) explain that Eged Kli Eged Shemei, all items
that are in a utensil are considered as one item.  This is also the
position of Chelkat Yo'av, O. Ch. Siman 10.  Therefore, one is not
required to remove the extraneous keys since they are considered as on

But doesn't ribui beshiurim require that the items have some potential
Yom Tov use?  Responsa Eretz Tzvi, siman 75 states that ribui beshiurim
allows one to carry items that have no Yom Tov use. This is also the
position of the Popo Rav in his introduction to sefer 'Yayaged Ya'akov
al HaTorah (Vayikra, page 12).

Therefore, concludes Rabbi Zinner, since the keys are all held together
in one key ring, one may follow the lenient opinion which is the
prevalent custom, and it is not necessary to remove the un-needed keys
from the key ring prior to Yom Tov.

I hope this clarifies what is obviously not a one-sided simple issue.
There is authoritative, halachic support for carrying a ring of keys on
Yom Tov when there is no Eruv.

Steven Oppenheimer, DDS


From: Michael Kahn <mi_kahn@...>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:16:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Shema

>They were forced to close yeshivot and stop studying torah, and there
>was a law against saying Shema (since the Zoroastrians believed in two
>rival gods, not one).

In fact, I heard that it was due to this law that they started saying
Shma before Baruch sheamar, during karbonos, because the Zoroastrian
guards posted in shulles to enforce the anti-Shma rule weren't there at
the beginning of davening.


From: Carl Singer <csngr@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:51:52 -0400
Subject: Tzizit and 613 Mitzvot

>From: Michael Kahn <mi_kahn@...>
>>There are only 612 OTHER Commandments (besides Tzitzith). When reading
>>GOD,then quite simply we only have to remember the >OTHER commandments,
>>not the fringe commandment itself, and there are only >612 of these
>>other commandments
>Interestingly, in the yehi ratzon recited when putting on tzitzis we
>speak of the 613 (!) mitzvos that are contingent on the mitzva of
>tzitzis (vtaryag mitzvos hataluim bo).

Someone in shule recently pointed out that one of the 613 is not eating
bugs that were "spontaneously generated" -- based on the then prevalent
scientific (mis-)conception that maggots spontaneously appeared in
(rotting) meat.  Well, since we now know that that isn't the case, are
we therefore left with only 612.

Carl Singer


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:22:13 +0100
Subject: Using an Eiruv on Yom Tov

Akiva Miller wrote:

>There most certainly are cases where you could carry something on Yom
>Tov if the Eruv is functioning, but could not if there is no Eruv.

There is another scenario - admittedly not very common, but relevant
nevertheless - where an Eiruv comes in useful on Yom Tov.

The din is that a person's property is subject to the same laws of
Techumin as its owner. The property may not be moved to a place which is
outside the owner's Tchum. On Shabbos this can be relevant only to
clothing which can be worn, whereas on Yom Tov it is applicable to
anything which could be carried.


Reuvein invites his friends and family to a simcha. To accommodate them,
he borrows the house of his friend Shimon, who is spending a holiday
abroad.  The possessions in Shimon's house may not be moved outside the
house on Shabbos or Yom Tov, as they are outside the Tchum of their
owner, Shimon. However, they may be moved within 4 amos; by extension
they may be moved within a single Rshuth Hayochid ("Private Domain")
which is considered to be as 4 Amos for this purpose.  Consequently, if
there is an operational Eiruv, the whole of the area enclosed by the
Eiruv has the din of 4 Amos.

Thus, if Shimon has a machzor in the house (and it is known that Shimon
would not object to the visiting occupants using it), it may be taken
out of the house only if the house is within an Eiruv - even on Yom Tov!

[The problem would not arise if Shimon gave explicit permission before
YomTov to use the machzor, as an item borrowed before YomTov acquires
the Tchum of the borrower.]

Perets Mett



End of Volume 40 Issue 29