Volume 40 Number 57
                 Produced: Sun Sep 14 11:21:46 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

         [Avi Feldblum]
Bailey's - milk or treif?
         [Akiva Miller]
B'eir Hagoilo
         [Zev Sero]
Bugs in Corn-on-the-Cob
         [David Ziants]
         [Joel Rich]
Kitve Rav Weinberg
         [Marc Shapiro]
         [Joel Rich]
Pronunciation - Haftara
         [Charles Halevi]
Shemini Atzeret
         [Baruch J. Schwartz]
Sixteeth Birthday means no Karet
         [L Reich]
Zichron Teruah
         [Baruch J. Schwartz]


From: Avi Feldblum <mljewish@...>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:06:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Administrivia

Shalom, All!

Just a quick apology that things got too hectic for me for the last
several days and there has not been any issues (I'm afraid to check, I
suspect it is about 10 days worth that have been missed). As you are
reading this, you have gotten the first one, so I am back on the air
(after going through several hundred email on my various accounts).

Avi Feldblum
mail-jewish Moderator


From: <kennethgmiller@...> (Akiva Miller)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:39:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Bailey's - milk or treif?

Zev Sero wrote <<< In the USA it is ubiquitous that, at weddings, the bar
is not under the same supervision as the caterer, and usually has no
hechsher at all. >>>

Maybe with the more lax hechsherim, but how could this be with the
better hechsherim, i.e., the ones who claim that everything they do is
l'chatchila? If they're serving treif at the bar, wouldn't that treif up
the glassware when they all get washed (in hot water) together?

(Please, let's not get sidetracked onto which hechsherim are lax and
which are better.)

He also wrote <<< Also, at a bar, people tend to order drinks
specifically by brand name, so if you only order drinks you consider
kosher, you are unlikely ever to be tripped up by this practise. >>>

This would not be the case with mixed drinks, which often have
non-alcoholic ingredients. If the bar is unsupervised, what's to stop
them from using tomato juice or maraschino cherries that don't have any
hechsher at all?

Why would the caterer's hechsher presume that people know the bar to be
unsupervised? Wouldn't they have a responsibility to inform the people
about this?

Akiva Miller


From: Zev Sero <zsero@...>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 02:50:48 -0400
Subject: Re: B'eir Hagoilo

Perets Mett <p.mett@...> wrote:
> But there is a " B'eir Hagoilo  "

If you're referring to the `footnotes' on the Shulchan Aruch, which are
usually printed at the top of the outside margin, then you are probably
correct that it is pronounced `Be'er Hagolah'.  But if you are referring
to the Maharal MiPrague's contribution to Jewish apologetics, that is
called `Be'er Hagulah', with a shuruk rather than a cholam.


From: David Ziants <dziants@...>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:23:17 +0300
Subject: Re: Bugs in Corn-on-the-Cob

I wrote in my posting concerning bugs in corn on the cob: 
> On discussing it with people around me, I have heard that
> it is a relatively recent discovery. It was suggested to me that
> it might not be as strict as the notification implies because the
> bugs, which cannot be seen on the surface of the corn, run deeper
> inside the cob, thus one is not going to eat any bugs when the
> corn-on-the cob is cooked.
> It is known that a whole bug cannot be battel b'shishim (annulled as
> less than one part in sixty), but maybe any "flavour" that might
> emanate from the bugs that hid inside the cob can be ???

I discussed this point briefly with the local Rav, and he said this
battel b'shishim logic was "shtuyot" (= rubbish or nonsense).  On asking
why, I was told that it is impossible for there not to still be bugs
running in and out and around the surface and between the kernels (there
was no relation to whether this logic could hold in the theoretical
situation that literally all the bugs are indeed buried inside the cob).

Concerning the method of checking that Yisrael Medad described from the
booklet that was written in Gateshead, UK, the answer was that one
cannot learn (halacha) from one place for another place.  In Israel,
these bugs (which are discernible to the eye as was mentioned in a
number of personal emails I received) are much more common in Israel,
thus the stricter ruling here.

Although I had already asked my wife not to buy (normal) corn on the
cob, when I later spoke to the (local) Rav, I made it clear that I
didn't want to be obligated by a p'sak. I am still interested to hear if
are any leniences on the issue even for Israel, needed for example when
eating in someone else's house. When I was in a supermarket today, I
tried examining a pre-packed corn-on-the-cob through the wrapping, and
could not see anything nasty or moving what so ever.

David Ziants
Ma'aleh Adumim, Israel


From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:04:11 EDT
Subject: Kaddish

I remember hearing a shiur once that discussed different conceptions of
the purpose of Kaddish with one difference being whether you would say
kaddish at a minyan you weren't davening with(eg you walked into the
main minyan after davening at hashkama and they were just finishing
karbanot).  Does anyone know of any sources which discuss this issue?

Joel Rich


From: <shapirom2@...> (Marc Shapiro)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 13:04:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Kitve Rav Weinberg

	I would like to announce publication of vol. 2 of the Collected
Writings of Rabbi Jehiel Jacob Weinberg. The book is available in
seforim stores and can be ordered directly from me.

	The book is divided into three sections. Section one contains R.
Weinberg's essays when he was a young rabbi in Russia. These essays are
written in a very florid Hebrew and show the influence of modern Hebrew
literature upon him. They also show R. Weinberg as a strong opponent of
Torah im Derekh Eretz.

	Section 2 contains his essays written during his time in Germany
(after World War I until WW II). Contained here are his essays on Herzl
and Berdyczewsky, his proto-feminist eulogy of Esther Rubenstein, as
well as all the material that was removed (censored?) from the two
posthumous editions of Li-Frakim.

	Section 3 contains R. Weinberg's essays from after the war,
including his very lengthy essay on Jewish education..As an appendix I
have included a letter from Prof. Saul Lieberman, justifying his
decision to teach at JTS.

	Throughout the book I have included excerpts from R. Weinberg's
correspodence, especially concerning Zionism and Torah im Derekh Eretz
(although, since the book is in the form of a sefer, not an academic
work, I have not included any of the sharp and "controversial" letters
-- although I have already been told that R. Weinberg' article on Herzl
does not belong in his collected writings and should have been omitted,
since in today's world, it is not regarded as fitting that a gadol would
write in such a positive way about a non-Orthodox Jew!

	If you would like to order the book, please send $15 to Marc
Shapiro, Theology Dept. University of Scranton, Scranton, PA. 18510. I
also have some copies of vol. 1 available, If you would like to purchse
this as well, please send $25 for both.

    	Some copies of the book were sold at book stores before it was
noticed that on p. 46 five lines were mysteriously cut off. The book has
now been reprinted, but if you are holding the copy with the missing
lines, please let me know and I can send you a paste-on that has what is

			Marc Shapiro


From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 07:02:20 EDT
Subject: Misheberachs

Does anyone know of any shuls that have tried to educate congregants as
a group(eg sending out information, giving shiurim) as to when it's
appropriate to say a misheberach, how a misheberach works, what other
actions should be taken by the individual etc.?

Joel Rich


From: Charles Halevi <c.halevi@...>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:30:15 -0500
Subject: RE: Pronunciation - Haftara

Shalom, All:

As long as we're discussing correct pronunciations -- e.g. "Be'er hetev"
vs. " Ba-eir Heiteiv " et al, here's my respectful rant:

When we recite the Prophets' portion in shul after we read aloud the
Torah segment, please don't call it a "HafTorah." It's "Haftara" or
"Haftuhruh," depending upon your dialect. Linguistically, the Prophets'
segment following the Torah reading has nothing to do with the word
"Torah." They're even spelled differently.

Kol tuv,
Charles Chi (Yeshaya) Halevi


From: Baruch J. Schwartz <schwrtz@...>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:02:53 +0200
Subject: Shemini Atzeret

I am looking for a minyan of Israelis for Shemini Atzeret (which we call
Simhat Torah) somwhere in the San Francisco area. If you have any
knowledge of same, or even any leads to follow up on, please inform me




From: L Reich <lreich@...>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:27:46 +0100
Subject: Sixteeth Birthday means no Karet

From: <RWERMAN@...> (Bob Werman)
> Can some one help with the masorah. I know that one doesn't usually
> celebrate birthdays but the sixteeth is a must, since it means you are
> not subject to karet, a dire and undefined punishment.  The idea seems
> to be based on the fact that those under twenty at the time of the sin
> of the Golden Calf were spared and entered Israel at the age of sixty.
> Sources, please?  Thanks.

See The Talmud in Moed Katan 28a where there is mention of a party on
reaching this age.

L Reich


From: Baruch J. Schwartz <schwrtz@...>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:56:23 +0200
Subject: Zichron Teruah

Since Rosh Hashana comes on Shabbat once again, here again is the
reminder regarding "yom teruah" in the Amida and kiddush, to be replaced
by "zichron teruah", without the word "yom", on Shabbat. Saying "yom
zichron teruah" is simply an error, and needs to be corrected.

And here once again is the explanation (reprinted from last year):

The Torah speaks about Rosh Hashanah in two places: in Emor it calls it
zichron teruah, and in Pinhas it says yom teruah. The peshat is fairly
clear: yom teruah means "a day of noise-making", that is, a day of
crying out to God (as understood by the tradition: sounding the shofar),
whereas zichron teruah means "remembrance by means of noise-making",
that is, a day on which we call out to God (again: traditionally
understood to mean sounding the shofar), hoping to move Him to
"remember" us, i.e. to pay attention and take notice of us. This use of
zikaron (or zichron in the construct) is found throughout the
Torah. According to the peshat, therefore, the two expressions explain
and complement each other.

The sages, however, characteristically playing on another, later meaning
of zikaron, "reminder", ask: do the two passages not contradict each
other? How can the same day be both a day of shofar-blowing and a
"reminder of" shofar-blowing? The resolution: when RH comes on a
weekday, it is yom teruah; when it comes on Shabbat, it is "zichron
teruah"--now reinterpreted to mean that since you don't actually blow
the shofar you are at least reminded of it. As many are aware, this is
adduced as a proof that the shofar is not sounded on Shabbat (see
Yerushalmi Rosh Hashana IV:1; Bavli Rosh Hashana 29b; Peskita 167b).

The nusah of the tefilla is based on this. Masechet Soferim 19:8 says
explicitly: "When RH comes on Shabbat, one does not say yom teruah but
rather zichron teruah", and this is a much more precise formulation than
the one brought in Orah Hayyim 583:7 (which means the same thing,
however. For the halachic sources see Ishei Yisrael 45:37 and notes 106
and 107).

The practice apparently developed gradually. As the apparatus in the
Goldschmidt mahzor shows, in some older mahzorim the distinction was not
known and zichron teruah was said on shabbat and weekdays. The aharonim
mentioned by the Mishnah Berura (583:19), who say that if one says
zichron teruah on a weekday that's fine too, may be simply reflecting
this older practice.

In any case, "yom zichron teruah" was never said and is just an
error. It is easy to see how the error came into being. Printers of
mahzorim printed: YOM TERUAH and in between the two words they added, in
parentheses "(beshabbat: zichron)". Since, elsewhere in the davening,
words in parentheses are simply added on Shabbat, many people are
unaware that in this case the word zichron is not to be inserted after,
but rather said in place of, the word that precedes it. Some mahzorim
explain clearly what is meant: see Avodat Yisrael p. 387, also
Goldschmidt (and check the old reliable Tukchinsky luach!). Others leave
you to figure it out, and many people therefore err.

With RH having come on Shabbat four out of five years in a row, let's
hope more and more people have learned the correct version.

Baruch Schwartz


End of Volume 40 Issue 57