Volume 40 Number 77
                 Produced: Wed Oct  1  6:49:48 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Airplane eggs
         [Leah Aharoni]
Civil Marriage
         [Alan Friedenberg]
Corn Kernels & Thrips
         [Yisrael and Batya Medad]
Fidelity to Halachah
         [Shayna Kravetz]
Follow halacha too far
Kreplach On Erev Yom Kippur
         [Mordechai Trainer]
Tashlich on Shabbat
         [Baruch J. Schwartz]
Unsupervised Bars
         [Martin D Stern]


From: Leah Aharoni <leah25@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:04:13 +0200
Subject: Airplane eggs

According to the Gemara, anyone eating peeled garlic or onions, or
shelled eggs that have remained overnight is endangering himself. The
Gemara's language is "damo berosho", literally "his blood is upon his

This is similar to the prohibition of drinking liquids that remained
uncovered overnight (out of fear of snakes poisoning the liquid).

One of my rabbeim at the Michlalah once approached the Badatz,
questioning their hechsher on garlic powder. They answered that
... garlic was not one of its ingredients.

Leah Aharoni
English/Hebrew/Russian Translator
Telefax 972-2-9971146, Mobile 972-56-852571
Email <leah25@...>


From: Alan Friedenberg <elshpen@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:36:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Civil Marriage

>From: <jmarksmn@...> (Perry Zamek)
>>Chana, I don't follow your question: Surely people who are using the
>>services of a civil marriage celebrant are not going to also have a
>>Huppah and Kiddushin. The usual reasons for Jews using a civil celebrant
>>are based on some level of rejection of Jewish tradition (e.g. marriage
>>with a non-Jew).

>Not true.  One reason, at least in the states, for having a civil
>ceremony before the religious, is to be able to file an immigration
>petition for a spouse to start the time running on what can be a long
>process now-a-days,.  There are also other reasons to accelerate the
>legal status of marriage to obtain certain civil benefits.
>Hanno D. Mott

Actually, ,I also married my wife with a civil ceremony, about 1 week
before our "real marriage" - the one with the chupa.  We were getting
married in Pittsburgh, and Pennsylvania required a blood test (and
possibly a physical exam by a doctor, but I don't really remember).  We
didn't feel like doing all that, so our civil marriage was in Towson,
Maryland, by a justice of the peace.

Alan Friedenberg


From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:22:36 +0200
Subject: Corn Kernels & Thrips

After speaking to an expert on Kashrut supervision, formerly an employee
of the Chief Rabbinate, and after speaking to my Rav at Shiloh, the basic
information about the corn thrips is that:-

a) the research was sourced at Gush Katif and confirmed by other
laboratories. I have not seen though any scientific reports.
b) the information is that, unlike the growing process in Gush Katif,
regular corn on the cob is infested more than previously thought and that
these thrips burrow down to the bottom of the kernel.
c) the decision made is that pre-soaking or regular cooking, i.e.,
boiling, is insufficient to remove them.
d) therefore, corn on the cob is not kosher unless the kernels are
removed first, then washed, and then cooked.
e) when I asked why would these thrips not be removed in the first case
and would so in the second, may I generously say that I do not think I
received an informed, rational and logical answer other than it is easier
to remove the thrips the second way.

For all who wish to read more, here are some references:-

Rarely as large as 5 mm, North American thrips are minute insects.
Primarily phytophagous, they rasp plant tissues and feed on the released
juices. Metamorphosis in thrips is usually considered simple or gradual,
although in some ways resembling complete metamorphosis. The first two
wingless instars are known as larvae. During the next one or two instars
(depending on the species) as wings become apparent, thrips are called
prepupae. A pupal resting stage precedes adult emergence. Adults are
generally characterized by having two pairs of slender wings with
hairlike fringe. Wingless adults do exist, but occur primarily during the
Thripidae (common thrips). The largest thrips family, Thripidae, also
contains the highest number of economically important thrips species.
Bulbs, leaves, and flowers are all subject to thrips attack. Common
thrips are not easily distinguished from other thrips families. Because
of their minute size, species identification in the field is not

see pages 6-8 of this:-

Not only corn:-
Currently, I'm growing yellow globe onions...But now, as if their small
size wasn't enough, they are being attacked by these tiny little
insects. Very small, almost invisible actually.  Most of them fly. They
look like they are scraping the green from the leaves. Some of the
onions are starting to, well, get deformed, especially the leaves. One
of my neighbors said they were thrips. The only books I have don't
really show an illustration of what thrips look like (as if I could see
them), so I don't know.

and other pest references:

for pictures:-
it just so happens that thrips are the predators of mites:
Six-spotted Thrips (Scolothrips sexmaculatus, Frankliniella occidentalis)
Long, slender, pale amber, translucent body with 6 brown spots. Attacks

Yisrael Medad


From: Shayna Kravetz <skravetz@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:46:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Fidelity to Halachah

Yakov Spil <yspil@...> states that he is

>quite shocked to see the posts of late regarding standards of modesty
>which can depend on how desensitized [the male viewer] is as far as
>standards of tzinius... It is so sad that acheinu bnei Yisroel can
>write about this so intellectually, and neglect to see the harm this
>does to our neshomos which we were put here to protect...

and then expresses similar dismay concerning discussion of the "equalized
marriage ceremony".

He takes as his title:
>Where is our fidelity to Halocho?

Present and accounted for, B"H, in my opinion.  Halachah is a process,
not an endpoint and IMHO that very fact explains why we're all still
here discussing these issues when peoples who existed at the time of Am
Yisrael's birth are wisps of cloud in the historical skies.  To make the
cheap homiletical point, "halachah" means "the path" or "the walking";
it is a road that we follow.

While I sympathize with Mr/Rabbi (I'm sorry, I don't know his correct
title) Spil's call to "see the harm this does to our neshomos", I wonder
whether what he means is the desensitization or the intellectual
approach to the issue.  If the former, I can appreciate his point.  But
if the latter, I would argue that this is one of the glories of
Yiddishkeit -- that every aspect of life is subject to halachic analysis
and that the frum Jew approaches decisions with these ideals as her

Wishing all MJ-ers and Klal Yisrael a shanah tovah,


From: <Skyesyx@...> (Eli)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:17:34 -0400
Subject: Follow halacha too far

The gemara says somewhere that, roughly translated, "Those who follow
the chumras [stringencies] of Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai are fools."
Sorry I don't have the exact source for this passage.

Also, on the flip side, the gemara follows up and also says, again
roughly translating without the source in front of me, "Those who follow
the kulas [leniencies] of Beis Hillel and Beis Shamai are heretics."

Clearly the gemarah is calling for moderation.



From: Mordechai Trainer <morton.trainer@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:58:06 -0400
Subject: Kreplach On Erev Yom Kippur

Good old Sefer Ta'amei HaMinhagim to the rescue: Kreplach are eaten on
three occasions -- Erev Yom Kippur, Hosahana Rabba and Purim.  Each of
these are a quasi-Chag, to be honored with food and drink.  But they are
not full-fledged Chagim where work is forbidden.  So the holiday essence
is somewhat "hidden".  We therefore eat wrapped/hidden meat.  Meat is
chosen because the Talmud (Chagigah 8a) tells us that the Torah
commandment to rejoice on Chagim must be fulfilled by eating meat.

Ta'amei HaMinhagim offers another reason, this one specifically for Erev
Yom Kippur.  However, this one is "Sod" ("secrets" of Torah) and is
beyond my comprehension.  Something about meat representing "din"
(judgement) and dough representing "rachamim" (mercy)......

Mordechai Trainer


From: Baruch J. Schwartz <schwrtz@...>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:25:39 +0200
Subject: Tashlich on Shabbat

Reprinted from "Halachot and Customs of the Festivals of the Month of
Tishrei 5764" by Harav Shimon Golan, Efrat. Note especially paragraph 2!


a.  The custom of Tashlikh is mentioned by the ReMA (Rabbi Moshe
Isserles) as follows: "They go to the river to recite pesukim
(including) "and You shall cast away to the depths of the sea all their
sins" (Siman 583 par. 2).  The Mishnah Berurah comments on this, "In the
kabbalistic writings it says a river or a well, and this should
preferably be outside of the city. One should go on the first day (of
Rosh Hashanah) after Minha, before sunset, and recite the pasuk "Mi el
kamokha". And in some places I have seen that when the first day falls
on Shabbat, they go to the river on the second day.  This may be because
the river is outside the city and because of (the prohibition of)
carrying, since they carry books and the suchlike, therefore they go on
the second day."

b. A question is recorded in the Responsa of Shevut Yaakov (part 3,
siman 42) as follows: In the year 5486 Rosh Hashanah fell on Shabbat and
Sunday.  Should one observe the custom of going to the river and
reciting Tashlikh on Shabbat, or the next day, on Sunday? The response
there is: "I am not aware of this involving any concern for forbidden
carrying; on the contrary, the poskim ruled that one should go on the
first day, since it is praiseworthy to perform any mitzvah at the
earliest opportunity. Where did anyone get the notion that they should
not go there on Shabbat? What risk of violating a prohibition is there?
Even if the river is located in a place where it is forbidden to carry
things on Shabbat, so what? Let them go without carrying anything! No
decree should be made on the grounds that someone might carry something,
for if so, why don't we forbid people to go places where they cannot
carry every Shabbat of the year?... Recently the book Kitzur Shnei
Luchot Haberit has appeared; he writes not to go to the river [i.e. to
Tashlikh] on Shabbat but gives no reason or proof whatsoever,
fabricating a prohibition from his own imagination.... And some
ignoramuses, whenever they see anything printed in a newly published
book, even one that cannot be relied upon, immediately accept it as
halacha--which is not proper.

c. Despite this explicit and adamant ruling of the Shevut Yaakov, the
custom among Ashkenazim is to postpone Tashlikh until the second day of
Rosh Hashanah. With regard to Sefardim, Rav Ovadia Yosef rules (Yehaveh
Da^Ňat, part 1, siman 56): "If the Tashlikh service is held outside of
the boundaries of the Eruv, we should refrain from reciting it on Rosh
Hashanah which falls on Shabbat in order that they will not
inadvertently carry mahzorim from the private domain to the public
domain. But if Tashlikh is performed within the Eruv boundaries, it may
be recited even on Shabbat."


From: <MDSternM7@...> (Martin D Stern)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:04:10 EDT
Subject: Unsupervised Bars

    I always understood that the reason kashrut authorities issue a
disclaimer on drinks is not that the wines served were necessarily 'stam
yeinam, non-Jewish wine', forbidden by them because of 'yeinam meshum
benoteihem, a precaution against intermarriage' when in the bottle but
because they cannot control who pours out the wine at the table. If a
non-Jew, even one who thinks s/he is Jewish, does so it immediately
becomes forbidden; many authorities extend this to a
non-shabbat-observant Jew.

    Martin D Stern


From: <Brikspartzuf@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:41:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Ushpizin

Hi Stephen,

As an answer to your question, please realize that the Ushpizin are not
physical guests!  They represent the spiritual Merkavot that Avraham,
Yitzchak, Yaakov, Moshe, Aharon, and David symbolize.  On Succot upon
entering the Succah, they are proclaimed as such.  The artscroll
Ushpizin welcoming for each night translated from the Yehi Ratzon
announces it.

 We welcome one guest for each night because they represent the conduits
of Ruchaniut and Midot of the Kadosh Baruch Hu.  Avraham represents the
Mida of Chesed or graciousness and kindness.  Yitchak reperesents the
Midah of Gevurah or severity and discipline.  Yaakov represents the
Midah of Tiferet or present time conciousness and Rachamim. Moshe
represents the Midah of Netzach or eternity and victory.  Aharon
represents the Midah of Hod or splendor and esotericsm.  Yosef
represents the Midah of Yesod or foundation or the fecundity and Shefa
principle.  David represents the midah of Malchut or Schechinah or the
recipient energy.

 All of these are welcome each night for 7 nights in our Succot.  But
they are not physical guests and we don't announce our physical guests
even though we are happy to have them in our Succah.

The concept of the Ushpizin comes from these spiritual Midot of the
Kadosh Baruch Hu and not vica-versa.  May I also be so bold, according
to my humble opinion, and state that if there is a woman who embodies
the Midot by which we emulate the kadosh Baruch Hu, not only is she
welcome in my Succah, but I wouild even announce her.

Ketiva V'Chatima Tova Lekulanu.
Tzvi Briks   


End of Volume 40 Issue 77