Volume 40 Number 83
                 Produced: Fri Oct 10  5:34:41 US/Eastern 2003

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Airplane eggs
         [R Davidovich]
Bare Midriffs
         [Yisrael Medad]
Challah for Yom Tov
         [Jeanette Friedman]
Equal Importance
         [Yisrael and Batya Medad]
Follow halacha too far (5)
         [Yehuda Landy, Jack Gross, <rubin20@...>, Joel Rich, S Meth]
Help spread the RAV's torah
         [Yoni Mozeson]
Modesty standards (was bare midriffs)
         [Leah Aharoni]
"Ohr Torah" Journal
         [Joshua Hosseinof]
Opening the Tanya
         [N Miller]
Ring for groom/men's jewelry
         [Y Posen]
Status of Havdalah Berakhot
         [Ben Z. Katz]
Unsupervised Bars
         [Ari Trachtenberg]
"Yarden" a place name or geographic term?
         [Joshua Hosseinof]
Yizkor in Sephardic Shuls
         [Martin D Stern]


From: R Davidovich <rdavidovich@...>
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:55:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Airplane eggs

> From: Leah Aharoni <leah25@...>
> According to the Gemara, anyone eating peeled garlic or onions, or
> shelled eggs that have remained overnight is endangering himself. The
> Gemara's language is "damo berosho", literally "his blood is upon his
> head".

Would someone please provide the reference to the gemara that says this?
I had always been under the impression that it wasn't a gemara but
rather a statement from R'Yehuda HaChossid in Sefer Chassidim.

Thank you,

Raphael Davidovich


From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:11:17 +0200
Subject: Bare Midriffs

Further to Rachel Swirsky's counter to the remark:

      >or is it, as one always suspects, an attempt to get male attention and,
      >therefore, prohibited as an accessory to gilui arayot
      that "at least part of the problem might be on your end"

I think that the term "gilui arayot" is inappropriate and a bit sloppy.

for example, the Encyclopedia Talmudit defines the term as the
prohibition of conjugation as regards one of the specified excluded
"naked ones" found in chapter 18 of Vayikra.  immorality is a different
matter than gilui arayot.

Yisrael Medad


From: <FriedmanJ@...> (Jeanette Friedman)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 06:17:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Challah for Yom Tov

      And why were there that many more challos necessary for Rosh
      Hashanah than other yomim tovim?

>From our experience in Teaneck and Forest Hills, it's because people who
don't usually buy challah all year round want round raisin challah for
yom tov....plus, not so much this year, when yom tov falls on shabbos,
but usually there are extra days that require more lechem mishneh and
challahs in general.

Jeanette Friedman and still Sieradski but
the former Mrs. Phibbleberry


From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:44:00 +0200
Subject: Re: Equal Importance

      Ari Trachtenberg wrote:
      >Where exactly does our tradition say that the two sexes are equally

      I believe before answering this we must first clarify the question.
      Equally important to whom?

Equal does not mean identical.  Which is heavier?  a kilo of stainless
steel, or a kilo of feathers?



From: <nzion@...> (Yehuda Landy)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:04:05 +0200
Subject: Re: Follow halacha too far

> From: <Skyesyx@...> (Eli)
> The gemara says somewhere that, roughly translated, "Those who follow
> the chumras [stringencies] of Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai are fools."
> Sorry I don't have the exact source for this passage.
> Also, on the flip side, the gemara follows up and also says, again
> roughly translating without the source in front of me, "Those who follow
> the kulas [leniencies] of Beis Hillel and Beis Shamai are heretics."
> Clearly the gemarah is calling for moderation.


This quote is accurate, but the gomora (Rosh Hashanah 15b, also see
Rashi) limits it to two chumras which contradict each other. Furthermore
the gemora states that when one is in doubt whose opinion is correct he
may follow the stringent implications of both opinions even if they are

	Wishing all a g'mar tov.
	Yehuda Landy

From: Jack Gross <jbgross@...>
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:36:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Follow halacha too far

-- No, it's calling for consistency.  The former is a "fool" because he
chooses to "walk in darkness", instead of selecting and joining one of
the two camps.  (It is speaking before B H became the normative

From: <rubin20@...>
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:32:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Follow halacha too far

Clearly the gemarah is calling for consistency

From: <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:19:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Follow halacha too far

I always thought the gemora was calling for a consistent intellectual
approach and let the chips(actual resultant halachot) fall where they

Joel Rich

From: S Meth <smeth@...>
Subject: Follow halacha too far

My take: Clearly the gemarah is calling for consistency.
Big difference!  


From: Yoni Mozeson <yoni@...>
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:21:01 -0700
Subject: Help spread the RAV's torah

With your help, Jews the world over can experience hearing one of Rav
inspiring Soloveitchick's Yarzeit shiurim in English along with a
transcription and footnotes to help them follow along.

I have a good quality recording of a Yarzeit Shiur from the 1980's
entitled "Rabbeinu Tam's Tefillin." It was just digitized and preserved
on CD and converted into 17 individual MP3 files. - each about 9 minutes
in length.

    If 17 people would volunteer to transcribe a 9 minute segment, we
can finish the entire project in a short time and make it available to a
wide audience. The file sizes range from 1.8 MB to 2.9 MB, so let me
know if you have size restrictions.

The transcription will enable those unfamiliar with the Rav's accent and
references to follow along. Hopefully, this will inspire others with
tapes of the RAV in their possession to digitize so as to preserve them
for the next generation and to make them available for a wider audience
(and possibly to transform them into a course in Yeshiva high schools).

Contact me at <yoni@...> and I will send you your 9-minute MP3

Tizku Lemitzvot,
Kol tuv    

Yoni Mozeson
Partner, Mozeson & Malinowski Inc.
Advertising & Marketing
555 Cedar Lane, Suite 5, Teaneck, NJ 07666
201-928-1818; H-201-801-0101


From: Leah Aharoni <leah25@...>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 13:47:47 +0200
Subject: Modesty standards (was bare midriffs)

Batya Medad's comments are valid not only for the US but for Israel as well.

I friend of my, who is a Jerusalem Beis Yaakov graduate, told me that
the Beis Yaakov class pictures from the 40s and 50s show students in
mini skirts. When she questioned her teachers, they said that at the
time these were the only skirts available.

Along the same lines, Rav Kuperman once related the following
anecdote. When Rav Sheinberg (of Matesdorf) studied at the Grodno
Yeshiva, one of the rabbanim asked about his interest in shiduchim. Rav
Sheinberg answered that he wanted to marry a woman who would cover her
hair. The rav told him that he should not bother looking for such a
woman in Europe! May be in America such a shiduch would be possible. Rav
Sheinberg went on to marry Ruchama Shein's sister (All for the Boss),
who came from one of a handful of American families in which women
covered their hair at the time.

Leah Aharoni


From: Joshua Hosseinof <jh@...>
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:22:55 -0400
Subject: "Ohr Torah" Journal

If anyone knows of the address of the Israeli monthly torah journal
called "Ohr Torah" or "Yarchon Ohr Torah", please send me their
correspondence address or details on how to obtain a subscription.

Josh Hosseinof


From: N Miller <nmiller@...>
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:37:06 -0400
Subject: Opening the Tanya

Has anyone seen any reviews of Rav Adin Steinsaltz's _Opening the
Tanya_?  Has anyone on this list read it yet?

Noyekh Miller


From: Y Posen <jposen@...>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:30:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Ring for groom/men's jewelry

> From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
> In the golden calf episode, it is pretty clear that both men
> and women contributed their earrings and noserings.

If you look into Rav Shimon Schwab's approach to the episode of the
golden calf (Mayain Bais Hashoavah, p. 224 d"h "VeYisporku") the only
reason that the men wore earrings was due to the fact their ears had
heard the first two commandments from Hashem Himself.  To commemorate
this tremendous occasion they decorated and adorned their ears.  This
was why the men sinned so greatly (Shemos 33:30) in donating those very
earrings to the golden calf.  Perhaps this is why men stopped wearing
earrings, while women - who did not sin at the golden calf - are still
privileged to wear earrings.

Yosef Posen


From: Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:15:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Status of Havdalah Berakhot

>From: Daniel Alexander <jane21267@...>
>I was puzzling over how to categorise the berakhot of Havdalah as per
>the (generally accepted) categories of the Rambam.
>Borei Peri Hagafen and Borei Minei Besamim are clear enough: they're

	This is actually not so clear.  They may still be birkat mitzvah
(you don't necessarily want to drink wine or smell spices at that time -
you are doing it to make havdallah).

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
Ph 773-880-4187,Fax 773-880-8226


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:24:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Unsupervised Bars

 >From: <MDSternM7@...> (Martin D Stern)
 > If a non-Jew, even one who thinks s/he is Jewish, does so it
 >immediately becomes forbidden; many authorities extend this to a
 >non-shabbat-observant Jew.

Wow!  Which authorities are these and on what grounds?
Ari Trachtenberg,                                      Boston University
http://people.bu.edu/trachten                    mailto:<trachten@...>


From: Joshua Hosseinof <jh@...>
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 09:41:27 -0400
Subject: "Yarden" a place name or geographic term?

As I was reading parashat Vayelech two weeks ago, it occurred to me that
the River Jordan ("Yarden") is never referred to in Tanach as either a
Nahar or Nachal - the two main terms in hebrew for a river or stream.
The pasuk in Vayelech says that Moshe will not cross "this Jordan" -
"Hayarden Ha-zeh", which led me to think - what other Jordan could there

Throughout Tanach the Jordan is only referred to as "The Jordan", or the
"Jordan by Yericho" (Yarden-Yerecho).  So that led me to think, that
perhaps "Yarden" is not a place name after all, but really a geographic
term for a type of river.  What type of river?  If we look at the root
of "Yarden" the root is Yud, Resh, Dalet - "Yarad" for going down.  The
Jordan river goes downhill from the Kinneret, to the lowest place on
Earth, the Dead Sea.  So a Yarden could be a type of river that flows
from a high place to a low place.

However, I have not found any commentary on the Torah that discusses
this idea, so I am wondering if anyone has ever heard any similar idea
regarding the meaning of the word Yarden.

Josh Hosseinof


From: <MDSternM7@...> (Martin D Stern)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 06:53:13 EDT
Subject: Re: Yizkor in Sephardic Shuls

In a message dated 2/10/03, Joshua Hosseinof <jh@...> wrote:

<< I am interested to know how Sephardic shuls, either in Israel or the
United States handle the issue of Yizkor on the days.  In our Sephardic
congregation in Teaneck NJ we have a rather mixed membership.  Virtually
all the husbands in the membership are Sephardim, and the wives are
almost exclusively Ashkenazic.  Additionally, some of our members are
Ashkenazic on both the husband and wife side. >>

    Firstly one should note that Yizkor is not the custom of all
Ashkenazim, those from West and South Germany (including Alsace,
Switzerland etc.) have a different custom called 'matnat yad'.

    Secondly one does not have to say Yizkor in shul even if that is the
general custom, so those who wish to say it can do so at home rather
than impose their 'foreign' custom on a Sephardi congregation. This
would certainly apply to Ashkenazi women married to Sephardi men who, in
any case are meant to follow their husband's customs and not those of
their ancestors.

    Finally the whole custom of Yizkor is relatively recent and the
excessive importance attached to it smacks more of superstition than
piety, as is evidenced by the number of people who only come to shul for

    Martin D Stern


End of Volume 40 Issue 83