Volume 41 Number 45
Produced: Thu Dec 18 5:51:30 US/Eastern 2003
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Chanukah and music
[Michael Savitz]
Double Names (5)
[Carl Singer, Yehonatan Chipman, Josh Backon, Yael Levine Katz,
Arthur Kurzweil]
Funerals
[Batya Medad]
Good Manners (2)
[Gil Student, Yehonatan Chipman]
Maccabi - sports (4)
[Ben Katz, Ilana Goldstein Saks, Yehonatan Chipman, Eli Turkel]
PLEASE and THANK YOU
[Russell J Hendel]
Working in Lakewood (4)
[<rubin20@...>, Tzadik Vanderhoof, Perets Mett, Harlan
Braude]
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From: Michael Savitz <michael.savitz@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:54:24 -0500
Subject: Chanukah and music
On anecdotal evidence, it seems to me that Chanukah is associated with
music far and away more than any other Jewish holiday: Chanukah songs,
Chanukah concerts, Chanukah CDs, etc. Assuming you agree this is so,
why should this be so? Is it simply because it's a nice long holiday,
without any Yom Tov restrictions, and not much else to do to celebrate
it? Or does it have anything to do with that other very musical
non-Jewish holiday that also takes place on the 25th of its month? What
do others on the list think?
A joyous Chanukah to all!
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From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:03:41 -0500
Subject: Double Names
A bit of caution when researching "double names" -- given name (say as
called to the Torah) and common name may differ and my not be a true
"double."
I've recently been working through a long list of Yahrzeit reminders and
see many instances where this might possibly lead to confusion. As an
example, my Father, ztl, was called the to Torah as "Dov ben Avraham" --
but was known to all as Berl. His proper name was NOT, however, Dov Ber.
Chuneh Avruhm Singer aka Chanan Avraham ben Dov
(After a Chana and an Avraham)
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From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:35:41 +0200
Subject: Re: Double Names
In v41n42, Yisrael Medad mentioned a few "double names" in the
Tanakh, such as "Evil Marduk" and "N'tan Melech."
How about "Avi-gedor" in 1 Chr 4:4 and 18, whoich was later
contracted into the one-word name "Avigdor," which the midrash says was
one of the names of Moshe Rabbenu, and was used as a proper name later
in Jewish history.
Yehonatan ben Avigdor (Chipman)
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From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:41 +0200
Subject: Re: Double Names
There is a double name (R. Yirmiah Bira'a) in the gemara in Gittin 34b.
Dr. Josh Backon
<backon@...>
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From: Yael Levine Katz <ylkpk@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 16:15:53 +0200
Subject: Double Names
An article in Hebrew by Prof. Shlomo Shpitzer on the names in the
compilations known as "Shemot Gittin" appears in the third volume of
"Ve-Eileh Shemot", published in 2002, pp. 139-157.
Yael
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From: Arthur Kurzweil <arthur.kurzweil@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:12:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Double Names
In the extraordinary A Dictionary of Ashkenazic Given Names: Their
Origins, Structure, Pronunciation, and Migrations by Alexander Beider
(Avotaynu: Bergenfield, N.J., 2001, 682pp.), the author indicates that
double names appeared prior to the 10th century. He also offers lots of
documentation on the history of double (and triple!) names along with a
number of theories about their development. Anyone with an interest in
Jewish names, first (personal) and last (surnames), should track down
Beider's books. He is clearly the world's expert.
Arthur Kurzweil
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From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:28:45 +0200
Subject: Re: Funerals
At 10:21 16/12/03 +0000, you wrote:
I have never seen an Israeli funeral hall with seats (except
maybe a few
Most Israeli funerals are not in "funeral halls." The act of
accompanying the dead is more kinesthetic than a chair would allow.
Unfortunately I've been to lots of Israeli funerals, and they involve
standing and walking for the most part. Here in Shiloh, we usually wait
by the person's shul or near the cemetery for the body to arrive. If
it's by the shul, everyone stands around for a few hespedim, then we
(all those who can) walk behind the body to the cemetery. Those who
can't go by car. Then the burial, more hespedim, etc. There are
usually a few plastic chairs for those who need to sit. There is more
of a feeling of "actively participating" which I think is what it should
be. The "chevra Kadisha" are neighbors and friends, which also helps.
Batya
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From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:06:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Good Manners
Carl Singer wrote:
>He replied to me that he had heard that a respected Rabbi had paskened
>that one should not talk with anyone in the morning prior to davening.
Actually, it is explicit in Shulchan Aruch that one may say "good
morning" to someone in return. Your friend was probably confused with
the details of the halachah. See Orach Chaim 89:2.
Gil Student
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From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:24:22 +0200
Subject: Re: Good Manners
In v40n42, Carl Singer asked about a young man who <<not only didn't
reply to my 'good morning,' but turned away as to avoid having to make
eye contact. [A friend] replied to me that he had heard that a
respected Rabbi had paskened that one should not talk with anyone in the
morning prior to davening. Does anyone have input on this?>>
There is a certian halakhic basis for this young man's behavior, but I
believe that either he or his rav are understanding in an unbalanced
way.
It says in the Talmud, in Berakhot 14a, that one shouldn't go to one's
friend's house to greet him before davening in the morning. The point
being that davening should be the first order of one's business, one
shouldn't place the honor of other people before that of Gd, etc. But
most all of the commentators and poskim explain that this refers to an
elaborate social interaction, not a simple greeting in the street or on
the way into shul. Otherwise, how would it be possible for the mishnah
near there to discuss answering or giving greeting between the sections
of Shema?
There are some pietists who are extra strict about this. Interestingly,
the Baal Shem Tov was one of these; he has a whole teaching about this
(Sefer Baal Shem Tov, Amud ha-Tefillah, #31), but this is over and
beyond the actual requirement of the halakhah. It seems to me that, in
our socety, unless one is renowned for extraordinary piety, and is
already mature (certainly not a young person meeting older people in
shul), one should bear this in mind.
But it doesnt sound to me like deliberate rudeness, but rather a lack od
proportion and common sense sometiems encountered in products of the
yeshiva world.
Yehonatan Chipman
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From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:36:24 -0600
Subject: Re: Maccabi - sports
>From: Eli Turkel <turkel@...>
>Does anyone know the origin of calling various sport teams and sport
>events Maccabi .
>Given that the maccabim fought the Greeks and sports it seems strange.
I assume it is just a sign of might.
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From: Ilana Goldstein Saks <lonnie@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:52:17 +0200
Subject: Maccabi - sports
The first Maccabiah was held in Tel Aviv, Palestine in 1932. The name,
no doubt, was chosen to promote the Zionist image of a strong and
physically fit Jew.
To quote the Encyclopedia Judaica: "The aim of the Maccabiah is to raise
the standard of physical culture and sports among Jewish youth and to
encourage and foster a sense of belonging to the Jewish people."
Yehudah (the Maccabi) might not have advocated the first aim but he
probably would not have objected to the second. A certain irony still
remains but it is no greater than the irony of the emphasis on
gift-giving (in competition with Christmas) on the holiday which
commemorates the fight against adopting a foreign culture.
Ilana Goldstein Saks
Israel
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From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:20:57 +0200
Subject: Re: Maccabi - sports
In v41n40, Eli Turkel asks,
<<Does anyone know the origin of calling various sport teams and sport
events Maccabi? Given that the maccabim fought the Greeks and sports it
seems strange.>>
Maccabi is the name of an international Jewish sports federation,
founded maybe eighty years ago that organizes and sponsers the
quadrenniel competition known as the Maccabiah.
I am a religious zionist, so it pains me to say this, but I will put
things bluntly: during the early years, especially, Zionism
reinterpreted Hanukkah and the history of the Hasmonean rebellion to fit
its own ideological needs, which included creating a "new type of Jew,"
one who was physically fit and active, proud of his body, etc. You can
draw the lines connecting the dots.
Jonathan Chipman
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From: Eli Turkel <turkel@...>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:02:34 +0200
Subject: Maccabi - sports
> I am a religious zionist, so it pains me to say this, but I will
> put things bluntly: during the early years, especially, Zionism
> reinterpreted Hanukkah and the history of the Hasmonean rebellion
> to fit its own ideological needs, which included creating a "new
> type of Jew," one who was physically fit and active, proud of his
> body, etc. You can draw the lines connecting the dots.
> Jonathan Chipman
I accept the explanation that the zionists wanted to stress the body and
sports etc. My question still is why they "davka" chose the name of
Maccabi which seems to have no connection (or possibly anti-connections)
to the idea of sports
Eli Turkel, <turkel@...> on 17/12/2003
Department of Mathematics, Tel Aviv University
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From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 06:41:54 -0500
Subject: RE: PLEASE and THANK YOU
Immanuel (v41n38) mentions the obligation to say THANK YOU. There is
actually a Talmudic precedent for this. The Talmud in Beracoth states
that R Yochana ben Zaccai would always say hello even to non-jews in the
market.
In general...whenever there are these middoth conversations I would try
as much as possible to justify what is said with actual Talmudic sources
Russell Hendel;
http://www.Rashiyomi.com/
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From: <rubin20@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:12:51 -0500
Subject: Working in Lakewood
> I recently heard a rumor that I find hard to believe. Since I don't like
> to spread (false) loshen hora, I asked three separate cognoscenti and
> they said it is in-fact true.
> I heard that there are certain schools in Lakewood that do not accept
> children from homes whose fathers are working (I assume it is o.k. if
> the mother is employed.) Can this be true?
As far as I know (a Lakewood resident, former school administrator),
there is no school in Lakewood that will categorically not accept a
child if the father is working. What is true is that in the event that
there is a limited number of openings for a class, student whose fathers
are in Yeshiva will be given precedent over (non sibling) students whose
fathers are working. This is especially true in Lakewood Cheder School,
which is official a branch of Yeshivah, so naturally caters to the
Yeshivas current students first. (BTW- Lakewood Cheder is absolutely not
chasidesh).
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From: Tzadik Vanderhoof <tzadik.vanderhoof@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:34:42 -0500
Subject: Working in Lakewood
It's quite common in some heredi areas Eretz Yisrael.
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From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:39:09 +0000
Subject: Working in Lakewood
The chasidishe schools are happy to take children of working fathers.
But some so-called 'litvishe' schools will not accept children of
working fathers.
[Information supplied by my son in Yerusholayim.]
Perets Mett
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From: Harlan Braude <hbraude@...>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:52:27 -0500
Subject: RE: Working in Lakewood
I can't comment about the truth of the rumor, but does the rumor mention
whether they accept donations from fathers who work?
If not, the problem may take care of itself.
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End of Volume 41 Issue 45
