Volume 41 Number 84
                 Produced: Sat Jan 17 22:46:53 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Dressing for shule
         [Carl Singer]
Quotation source (8)
         [Yisrael and Batya Medad, Francine Weistrop, Susan Shapiro, Art
Werschulz, Michael Savitz, Robert Israel, Hillel (Sabba)
Markowitz, Leah Aharoni]
Shalom Aleichem (2)
         [<rubin20@...>, Stan Tenen]


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 07:40:23 -0500
Subject: Dressing for shule

> We learn, for example, that a workman in a tree can daven from that 
> perch (partly so that he minimizes the time that he  is not working for 
> his employer.)  It's clear that he isn't going to change clothing to do 
> so.   I think that it follows that a worker's minyan certainly expects 
> people to come dressed in their work clothes. (Within reason -- not if 
> the workers are lifeguards in swim trunks.)

I don't know if one can extend this analogy to "anything goes."  I see
people who work in an office environment coming to shule wearing shorts
or sweatpants -- something that they wouldn't do at work.

Shabbos is, to me, another story.  Under normal circumstances one has
time to prepare beegday Shabbos (Shabbos clothing) How can we (in a
community where the Shabbos norm is suit and tie) justify someone (who
has the means / clothes) coming to, say, Shabbos Mincha wearing a old
pair of slacks (wrinkled and dirty) and a polo shirt?

Yes there are more important issues and this may seem petty -- but among
other things it makes an impression on one's children and this opens a
door to questions such as "Mr. Jones comes to shule without a jacket,
can't I?"

Carl Singer


From: Yisrael and Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:16:35 +0200
Subject: Re: Quotation source

      I am looking for the text of a quotation, and perhaps your
      subscribers can help.  I believe it was written by a Christian
      cleric during WWII.  It says, in effect: When they came for the
      Jews I did not speak up because I was not a Jew.  When they cam
      for the socialists I did not speak up because I was not a
      socialist.  When they came for ... When they came for me there was
      no one left to speak up for me.

      I'd be grateful if anyone can provide the proper quotation
      and its

      Richard A. Rosen, MD

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemoller

Who was Martin Niemoeller? Niemoeller was one of the most respected
Protestant leaders in Germany. After a signal career as a young man, a
decorated U-Boat captain in the First World War, he became an activated
Christian. In 1933, when he became the most high profile of Hitler's
Christian opponents, he was in charge of a prestigious suburban parish
in Berlin-Dahlem.

Niemoeller was a leader in the mobilization of the Pastors' Emergency
League, in the Synod that denounced the abuses of the dictatorship in
the famous "Six Articles of Barmen," and in other visible joint actions
and sermons that finally led to his arrest on 1 July 1937. There were
then a few honest judges still functioning in Germany, and when the
court let him go with a slap on the wrist Hitler personally ordered his
incarceration. Niemoeller was in concentration camp, including long
periods of solitary confinement, until the end of the war.

After the war, active in international church affairs, he made preaching
trips across the United States. At that time he brought the message of
concern for others, often driving the point home with a confession of
his own blindness when the Nazi regime rounded up the communists,
socialists, trade unionists, and, finally, the Jews. The quotation is
now famous, but often in corrupted form.

In a recent bulletin of the Social Studies School Service, a 23" by
161/2" poster is advertised for $4.95. It begins, "First they came for
the Jews...." A beautiful new folder from Yad Vashem, featuring "The
World Center for Teaching the SHOAH," has the Niemoeller statement on
page 2 as the banner opening; it uses the same corrupted form. An
educational video on skinheads and other racist extremists, produced by
Jansen Associates, jumbles the sequence of Niemoeller's warning and adds
"then they came for the Roman Catholics, and I didn't protest...." In
other freely invented materials, we read "Then they came for the gays,
and I didn't protest...."

The latter corruption of the text was never seen by Niemoller: he died
before homosexual exhibitionism became a public spectacle. But when we
asked him years ago about the addition of the Roman Catholics, he said,
"I never said it. They can take care of themselves." (Not particularly
friendly, perhaps, remembered today in the modern climate of
Catholic/Protestant rapprochement; but the report has the virtue of
telling the truth.) When asked about the re-arranged order, "First they
came for the Jews...," he simply laughed and passed it off.

There is a more than pedantic point to insisting that the Niemoeller
quotation be truthfully used, if at all. Through the texts corrupted to
promote special interests, literally millions of school children and
also adults are being taught lies about the Holocaust. The damage is not
as serious, perhaps, as the steady infiltration of "Holocaust revision"
(i.e., denial). But it does help to create an atmosphere of playing fast
and loose with the facts through intellectually dishonest and
self-serving manipulation of the text.

Niemoeller knew the sequence of Nazi assault, because he was there. Any
average student of the third Reich should be able to give the record
accurately; it is a shocking display of professional incompetence when
materials that are supposed to be vetted by specialists can be issued
that are simply contrary to the record. Even if a corrupt text appears
in print, whether published by an ignoramus or a special pleasure, the
literate reader should catch the mistake.

As Martin Niemoeller gave the message, it was true to the facts. "They"
didn't "come for the Catholics" any more than "they" came for the
Protestants. The true historical sequence, which Niemoeller of course
followed, was communists, socialists, trade unionists, and Jews. The
assault on the Jews was the culmination of the Nazi dictatorship's
ruthless elimination of targeted communities and individuals.  Martin
Niemoeller's message, in its true form, carries a powerful moral
impact. Telling the story and drawing the lessees of the SHOAH are
weakened, not strengthened, when carelessness or self-indulgence permits
a corrupted text to be widely disseminated. The true sequence, which
culminates the Nazi genocide of the Jews, is both literally and morally
stronger than the corrupt forms that are becoming now widespread:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

From: <JFWeis@...> (Francine Weistrop)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:14:29 EST
Subject: Re: Quotation source

The "When they came for the Jews..." quotation is generally credited to
Pastor Martin Niemoller," a German Protestant theologian. 

Francine Weistrop

[Similar responses from:
	 Edward Tolchin <etolchin@...>
	 <Joelirich@...> (Joel Rich)
	 Charles Chi (Yeshaya) Halevi <halevi@...>

From: <SShap23859@...> (Susan Shapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:53:24 EST
Subject: Re: Quotation source

here is the reference online to the original German and the translation:

                                Martin Niemoller

>From Wikiquote, the free encyclopedia.
Protestant Pastor and Social Activist

Susan Shapiro

From: Art Werschulz <agw@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:06:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Quotation source

Pastor Martin Niemoeller.  You can find a bio of Niemoeller at
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/biography/niemoeller.html.  BTW,
according to said page, the quote is as follows:

  First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I
  did not speak out.  Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade
  Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.  Then they
  came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.  And
  when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

According to another page on this website, Niemoeller said this in
response to a student's question: "How could it happen?"

Art Werschulz 
GCS/M (GAT): d? -p+ c++ l u+(-) e--- m* s n+ h f g+ w+ t++ r- y? 
Internet: <agw@...><a href="http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~agw/">WWW</a>
ATTnet:   Columbia U. (212) 939-7060, Fordham U. (212) 636-6325

From: Michael Savitz <michael.savitz@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:29:28 -0500
Subject: Quotation source

The quotation is from Martin Niemoller, German Protestant Pastor. 

This quotation appears as an inscription on the Holocaust Memorial in
downtown Boston -- and probably in many other places.

See http://www.forerunner.com/champion/X0006_5._Martin_Niemller.html and
http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Politics/niemoller.shtml for more
information about Mr. Niemoller.

From: Robert Israel <israel@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:54:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Quotation source

The author of this quotation, Martin Niemoller, was a Lutheran pastor who
broke with the Nazis in 1933.  There are very many versions of this
quotation, mentioning various groups in various orders, and no definitive
answer for what the original was.  See the extensive discussion at
<http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/niem.htm> and references
given there.

Robert Israel                                <israel@...>
Department of Mathematics        http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Z2

From: Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz <hsabbam@...>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:33:54 -0500
Subject: RE: Quotation source

This is fron the German Protestant Bonhoffer [Hillel - Bonhoffer was a
member with Niemoller of the Confessing Church, a group of clergy
opposed to Hitler and the Nazi movement. I don't think he is generally
thought to be the author of the poem under discussion. Mod.].  The quote
is etched on the wall at the U.S. Holocaust museum.  What is interesting
is that I have seen earlier writings of Bonhoffer which were quite
antiSemitic.  Apparently he backed the Nazis originally and did not
realize where it would lead until it was too late.  The quote is often
misused to claim that he was a humanitarian when it really shows that he
was indifferent to the fate of others when it might have made a

Hillel (Sabba) Markowitz - <sabbahillel@...>

From: Leah Aharoni <leah25@...>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:15:08 +0200
Subject: Quotation source

The cleric's name was Martin Niemoller.

A Google search for Niemoller produced over 6,000 hits. Here are a few


Leah Aharoni
English/Hebrew/Russian Translator
Telefax 972-2-9971146, Mobile 972-56-852571
Email <leah25@...>


From: <rubin20@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:46:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Shalom Aleichem

>From: Brandon Raff <Brandon@...>
>Can anyone tell me the reason why we repeat each verse of Shalom
>Aleichem on Friday night three time?

Thats an assumption. I don't; I say each stanza only once. That was the
custom in the entire Lita (Lithuania), along with NOT singing/saying
Eshes Chayil.

>Can anyone tell me the origin of the custom of putting a silver spoon in
>front of the Yichud room for the Chasan and Kallah to walk over?

This is a new one to me, and I'm pretty frum. 

From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:16:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Shalom Aleichem

This is Kabbalistic.

There are four verses, each repeated three times, usually with
alternating melodies.  There are actually very few different words in
Shalom Aleichem, most of the words being repeated in every verse.  I've
looked at this casually, and while I don't have a definitive result, it
appears that what's being presented is a musical permutation set of
sorts.  One simple feature, of course, is 3 x 4 = 12, an allusion to
many fundamental ideas in Kabbalah.  For example, the number of tribes,
the 13-petaled rose (12 around 1 cubeoctahedron), and as pure geometry
(based on the Sh'ma, as it turns out) the Pythagorean triangle, which
has a side that is 3 units, a side that is 5 units, and a total
perimeter of 12 units.

We also have 12 pairs of ribs.  There are 12 houses in the Zodiac, 12
months in the solar year, 12 hours in the day and 12 hours in the night.
Dozens of these parallels are listed in various sources.

But the alternating melody and the repetition of phrases indicates other
periodicities and permutations also.  Shalom Aleichem is a Kabbalistic
gold mine.

Be well.



End of Volume 41 Issue 84