Volume 41 Number 98
                 Produced: Mon Jan 26  6:23:47 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Chanukah Olive Oil (2)
         [Immanuel Burton, Yehuda Landy]
Church Entering
         [Yisrael Medad]
Eating Fish Alive
         [D. Rabinowitz]
Fish, Meat, and Milk
         [Perets Mett]
Freeware Hebrew Lu'ach software
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Gd's name, another question
         [Leah S. Gordon]
Hebrew National
         [joseph rosen]
Meat and fish among sephardim
         [Leah Aharoni]
Names: Moses
         [Stan Tenen]
Order of Slichos on a Taanis
Praying Loudly
Punishible by Koreis
         [Tzvi Stein]
Singing Zemiros
Source if you know it
         [Rabbi Ed Goldstein]
Sources on Spirituality, etc.
         [David Riceman]
Synagogue Disputes
         [Mark Steiner]
         [Hanno Mott]
         [Cheryl Hall Horowitz]


From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:49:21 +0000
Subject: RE: Chanukah Olive Oil

I don't know the answer about Chanukah oil with an OU hechsher, but the
posting did remind me of a bottle of fabric conditioner I once bought in
Israel.  On the label was written, "Caution!  Toxic!  Do not eat!
Kosher le'Pesach."

Immanuel Burton.

From: <nzion@...> (Yehuda Landy)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:44:30 +0200
Subject: Re: Chanukah Olive Oil

	I spoke to Rabbi Kuber (who is in charge of the OU kasherus in
Israel) today, and he assured me the the OU did not give any hechsher to
olive oil not fit for human consumption.

Yehuda Landy


From: Yisrael Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 23:09:11 +0200
Subject: Church Entering

      I am very intersted to know what was Rabbi Jacob Meir doing in the
      Cathedral of St. George in Jerusalem on that December 9. If
      someone could find the invitation to that occasion, in some
      archive, we'll all be enlighten. One reader informed me privately
      that the Cathedral was built in the late-middle 1800s.

      Gilad J. Gevaryahu

a)  St. George's was also a school (Edward Said, for one, was a later
b)  according to Yad Ben-Tzvi's "Chronologia", Allenby didn't enter
Jerusalem until Dec. 11, 1917

my guess is that it was a commemorative service marking the event at
another later year.  i'll try other sources.

Y. Medad


From: D. Rabinowitz <rwdnick@...>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:08:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eating Fish Alive

Regarding the issue of eating fish alive and whether aver min ha-hayi
applies see R. M.M. Kasher, Torah Shelama in Noah, chap. 9 no. 13 where
he has an extensive discussion about this issue.


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 09:14:08 +0000
Subject: Re: Fish, Meat, and Milk

In connection with the custom of refraining from eating dishes made from
fish and milk products, note that Rabeinu Bachye on Shmos 23:19 says:

	And so is the opinion of the doctors about a mixture of fish and
cheese that has been cooked together, that it engenders bad
characteristics and tsoraath.

It seems pretty clear that the use of the words 'fish and cheese'  are 

Perets Mett


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 08:42:59 +0300
Subject: Freeware Hebrew Lu'ach software

http://www.tichnut.de/jewish/ offers a freeware Windows and Mac Lu'ach

If you install it and are in the default view, which shows three months
side by side, note the following:

Click on any date:

A window will open: "Edit Text"

If you click on "Insert Zmanim" you will get the Zmanim of the day for
whatever city you set it to.

If you click on "Halachah" it will tell you what you do and do not say
in davening that day, e.g., tachanun!!

This is obviously not a final Halachic decisor in these matters.

The programmer, Ulrich Greve, is still in college.

He has quite a few other programs there of specifically Jewish interest,
such as a date converter between Hebrew and Gregorian dates.

Shmuel Himelstein


From: Leah S. Gordon <leah@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:31:16 -0800
Subject: Gd's name, another question

It *is* our family minhag to use Gd's name (or "adonai" since I guess
none of us alive today really use Gd's name) in zemirot.  But I have
another question.

My younger son (age almost 2) often asks for "aneinu" which means he
wants us to sing from the hakafot, "ana <hashem>, hoshia na..." etc.  I
sang it for him using Gd's name, and my older son (age almost 6) told me
that they learned in school not to do that.  I did tell him that in a
praise/spiritual/zemirot/full-sentence context, I thought it was
permissible, particularly for education purposes.  But then I saw this
thread...so what are your thoughts?



From: joseph rosen <rosenjoseph2@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 17:28:49 +0000
Subject: Hebrew National

RAbbi Aaron Abadi has issued the following statement in the name of his
father, Ha-Gaon Rabbi Yitzchok Abadi Shlita

Hebrew National has retained Rabbi Ralbag as the Rav Hamachshir
(Certifying Rabbi) for it's meats.

I brought Rabbi Ralbag to meet my father in Lakewood this past week. We
spent hours reviewing the process and the details of his work there. It
was fascinating and wonderful. We commend the Hebrew National company
and Rabbi Ralbag on all the work done to bring the Kashrut (Kosher)
levels up to a solid Kosher, at such great expense and efforts. This was
not done as a marketing technique, but rather to "answer to the higher

The meat is not Glatt. Glatt is when there are no blemishes at all on
the lungs. Becoming Glatt would entail taking only percentage of the
cows that are currently Kosher.

The meat, however, is certainly Kosher for all who do not eat only

The system is thoroughly automated, which avoids the common mistakes
that happen at the smaller operations.

Rabbi Ralbag is a Yarey Shamayim and can be relied on 100%.

We wish them all lots of luck and success.


From: Leah Aharoni <leah25@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:20:57 +0200
Subject: Meat and fish among sephardim

Batya Medad wrote:

>In general, sefardim eat fish after meat, use the same utensils, same
>plate, etc.  In Israel this is frequently seen at smachot.  Also, when
>serving first course, the same utensil is frequently used for the fish
>and meat, with the gravy mixing.

I have been married into a LARGE Sephardic family for over 8 years and
have numerous Sephardic friends. I have NEVER seen any Sephardi eat fish
and meat with the same utensils. On every occasion that I can think of,
two sets of plates and cutlery were set.

Leah Aharoni


From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:49:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Names: Moses

"Moshe" -- like all Torah roots -- can be analyzed as an acronym for the
meaning of the letters that spell "Moshe".

Mem means "source of" (and also alludes to water).
Shin means "expression".
He is an open frame.

Moshe is thus a generic term for any open-ended source of
expression. This fits Moshe's place and purpose in Judaism. Indeed,
Moshe brings us the ultimate source of expression -- Torah.



From: <perzvi@...>
Subject: Order of Slichos on a Taanis

For starters look at Perek Beis in Mesechtes Taanis.  Interestingly, the
minhag among Chassidim is either to insert Slichos into Tachanun (where
one inserts v'hu Rachum on Monday and Thursday) or to omit Tachanun in
lieu of Slichos altogether on a Taanis.


From: <chips@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 06:45:16 -0800
Subject: Re: Praying Loudly

>  Yes, no one should daven so loudly as to disturb others. 

	Hello? where did you get that rule from? No one should daven
loudly AT ALL , and especially not at a minyan. OK, what halachic
decisor of the past 400 years has ruled in writing that you can?

> Are you going to go over to that guy and tell him?  
	How about putting up a sign?	

> Will he thank you or get in your face?  
	Don't know. Though in situations similar to this that I have
been involved with (last I recall was a discussion about what , if
anything, was really permitted `ben gavra le gavra`) nobody got snooty
or angry in any way.



From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Subject: Re: Punishible by Koreis

>Now that is really frightening. If you are aware of an aveira for which
>you are punishable by Koreis - that would definately affect your spouse.

I would think that just about everyone who had not been observant their
whole life would fall into that category, as I believe eating chometz on
Pesach is one of those aveiras.  But I'd think if you have done tshuva,
you wouldn't need to disclose it, since it no longer affects the spouse.
Does anyone have a list of the aveiros that are punishible by koreis?
If I remember correctly, there is one called "negating the bris" which
I'm not clear on what it really means (could be a machlokes).  I'd
appreciate clarity on that, too, if anyone has studied it.

Normally, I'd search online for something like this, but it's very
difficult and frustrating to search for Hebrew terms online, due to the
endless variations in transliteration.


From: <JoshHoff@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:13:21 EST
Subject: Re: Singing Zemiros

Rav Ahron Soloveichik was once asked about saying God's name in zemiros,
and he said based on a Ritva in Nedarim that to say the name as praise
is permissible. I have heard that Rabbi Schwab was personally stringent
not to say the actual name in zemiros, but I don't know if he told
people not to say it.

To: <mail-jewish@...>

From: <BERNIEAVI@...> (Rabbi Ed Goldstein)
Subject: Source if you know it

There is a midrash that mashiach will not come until the sharon valley
can flower.  this has not happened because everyone who ever made war in
eretz yisrael went through there to do it.  it smacks of the ma'amar
that mashiach will come when yisrael has observed TWO shabbatot

Rabbi Ed Goldstein


From: David Riceman <driceman@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:22:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Sources on Spirituality, etc.

> I am looking to identify traditional Jewish texts and sources--both
> classic and modern--that speak to the role of emotions in Avodat
> Hashem,

The Alter from Kelm was very interested in this, as was the Piasatzner
Rebbe.  For the former start with "Sefer HaKatan" in Kithvei HaSaba
MiKelm, vol. 1.  For the latter start with Hovoth HaTalmidim (which I
believe has been translated into English).

David Riceman


From: Mark Steiner <marksa@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:31:09 +0200
Subject: RE: Synagogue Disputes

	I have just finished reading the fascinating work "The Jewish
Synagogue," by the Christian Hebraist Johannes Buxtorf (1640), which was
recently translated into English from German (cf.
www.uwm.edu/~corre/buxdorf/).  The author was a professor of Hebrew in
Basel.  It is an amazing mixture of wide knowledge of halakha and minhag
on the one hand, and anti-semitism on the other (example: he writes that
a Sukkah cannot be built in a place that stinks (true), adding "Like the
Jew Street in Frankfurt."  Most of his information is correct and even
lomdish (he explains why one may fast after a bad dream on the Sabbath
but not festivals, because the latter has a din simcha, while Shabbat
has only "oneg").

	As for the custom of delaying the service to settle a dispute,
Buxtorf says that this was done [again, we are talking about 1640] after
mincha and before maariv (which were recited one after the other, he
says, since the rabbis were afraid that the Jews would get drunk at
supper and not come back to shul).  He records, however, that the custom
in many cases simiply led to cancelling maariv....


From: Hanno Mott <hdm@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:36:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Tuxedos

> From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
> Go to the Spanish Portuguese synagogue in Manhattan on Shabbos or Yom
> Tov and you'll see top hats, donned l'kovod Shabbos.  As a tailor's son,
> I'll claim that a well made / properly fitting tux is no less
> comfortable than a suit.

Not only at the Spanish-Portugese on the West Side.  Also at The Jewish
Center.  Top Hats and Morning Suits [Striped pants etc] every Shabbos
from R'H through Shavous.  Everyone on the Bima - Gaboim, Officers and

Hanno Mott


From: Cheryl Hall Horowitz <hallcheryl@...>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:28:10 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: Re: Weddings

It may just be practical. I believe most people stand in order to get a
"better" view of the bride as she approaches.

Cheryl Horowitz


End of Volume 41 Issue 98