Volume 42 Number 25
                 Produced: Wed Feb 25  7:56:21 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Dani-el or Daniel
         [Nathan Lamm]
Going Away for Pesach
         [Tzvi Stein]
Judaism and Community
         [Tzvi Stein]
Kosher foods
         [Carl Singer]
         [Roger Jefferson]
Non-Dairy Creamer
         [Binyomin Segal]
Pesach -- relaxed requirements
         [Carl Singer]
Pesach and Cleaning (2)
         [Akiva Miller, Binyomin Segal]
Pesach Cleaning
         [Michael Kahn]
Pesach Resorts
         [Tzvi Stein]
Shul weddings -- DAVKA
Weddings in Shuls (2)
         [Harlan Braude, Michael J. Elman, M.D.]
Writting name of G-d


From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:27:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Dani-el or Daniel

Shimon Leibowitz writes:

"Also, there is a Daniel mentioned in Yechezkel 14:14;20, spelled
without a yud, and with a tzere under the aleph."

According to many scholars, this is not the Daniel of Tanach, but an
older character from Ugaritic literature named Dan-el (hence the
spelling). This fits well with the context of Yechezkel, which also
mentions Noach and Iyov- that is, three righteous characters from
ancient (even back then) times, well known in the area of the Babylonian
Empire. Two made it into Tanach, perhaps with adaptations of the story,
and some even say the Biblical Daniel has his roots here as well.

Nachum Lamm


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:38:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Going Away for Pesach

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of people go away for Pesach to avoid
> the cleaning and cooking that the holiday involves. Why would you want
> to go to a hotel where you have to cook 3 meals a day under much more
> uncomfortable conditions than can be found in your own kitchen?

Because you avoid having to clean your house for Pesach.


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:41:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Judaism and Community

> Halachically, one is not required to live where there is a minyan.  There
> are many frum poeple who don't live in such a place and they are not doing
> an aveira by living there.  So going for just Pesach to such a place would
> not seem to be any worse than living in such a place all the time.

Judaism is not a "solitary" religion.  We cannot celebrate any week or
holiday without community.


From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:46:30 -0500
Subject: Kosher foods

(an aside) The gemorah sites that when drinking a coconut "milk" at a
meat meal one should have the coconut shell on the table to clarify what
is going on. 

Today we can fly in fresh food from around the world, if so desired.
And before that there was canning, etc.,  But it wasn't that long ago
that people had only the raw food ingredients that where "local"   Hence
in Poland we ate like the indigenous Polish did (i.e, potatoes and hardy
grains -- no citrus fruits, etc.)  In North Africa -- similarly local
foods.  In Israel, turkey turned out to be a meat source that could
withstand the climate.

Carl Singer


From: Roger Jefferson <rogerjefferson1975@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 05:36:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: re: Mikvah

I live in Silver Spring, and until recently, there was not a mikvah
(that was accepted by R. Anemer, the Rabbi) in Kemp Mill. Kemp Mill is
an area with about 300-400 orthodox families.  When I approached
R. Anemer to ask what to do about Friday night tevilah, he said either
my wife could walk to the nearest mikvah, approx. 40 min. through a
unlit park or just skip it, it was no big deal. In fact, when I asked
why there isn't a mikavh in the community he said that it was no big
deal to miss the night, it has been like that for almost 40 years.

Though, in response to how it could happen when a women be tovel during
or more exact right before shul. R. Moshe has a teshuvah (don't remember
the exact simin) where he allows for a women to tovel, in areas that it
would be difficult or dangerous to go on Friday night, on Friday
afternoon right before skiah. In that case the women would be coming
home right at skiah, perhaps this is when the husband would miss shul. I
do realize that the husband would still be able to catch at least the
end of davening, assuming that he was close to shul. However, this may
have been the scenerio that the was refered to.

Roger Jefferson


From: Binyomin Segal <bsegal@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:14:34 -0600
Subject: Re: Non-Dairy Creamer

On 24 Feb 2004 12:29:10 -0000, W. Baker <wbaker@...> wrote:
> I wonder if any of you are old enough to remember when
> "non-dairycreamer" was invented.  I do and it was interesting.  Up to
> that time coffee either was not served at a meat meal or was served
> black(my preference).  Once the non-dairy creamers came in , they were
> served int the original carton at events and even in homes when guests
> were served.  This was, obvioulsy to enure that people knew that it was
> not the "forbidden" cream that was being served.  Is this not imitating
> the goyim or trying to eat imitations of non-kosher foods or
> combinations?

What is particularly interesting about this example is how old it really
is. It seems that there was already a non-dairy creamer made from nuts
as early as the 1500s. The Rama (YD 87:3) mentions a creamer made from
almonds, and discusses the maris ayin issues that arise from it, and how
to avoid those issues. (This may be even earlier, though I am unaware of
an earlier source that mentions the creamer, I have not recently studied
the topic, and do not have time now for any real search.) Keeping the
creamer in the original container seems a pretty reasonable application
of the Rama's requirement that one keep some almonds near the almond



From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:34:05 -0500
Subject: Pesach -- relaxed requirements

> I think the problem goes beyond ignorance though, because I've seen
> people who, once they learned of these relaxed requirements, just
> continued doing what they always have done.  I've also run into rabbis
> who did not want me to publicize the summary, even though they did not
> disagree with it on halachic grounds.

We Jews are monotheistic, but we certainly are not of a single mind.

There are many differing halachic viewpoints and scores of different
minhagim and family traditions re: Pesach.  Granted many people go
beyond what others would consider to be halachic minimums when it comes
to preparing for Shabbos, Yom Tov AND Pesach.

It would be ignorant or smug to claim that one owns the "true" answer or
the "best" answer -- and words (primarily adjectives) fail me when it
comes to describing my experiences with people who try to export their
way as the right way.

Carl Singer


From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:49:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Pesach and Cleaning

Tzvi Stein wrote <<< If they are "working themselves to the bone", then
probably 90% of what they're doing is not halachically necessary.  There
is an excellent halachic summary about the miniumum requirements of
Pesach cleaning that was put out by the students of Rav Scheinberg
several years ago. >>>

And it can be found on the web at


And a similar article, by Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, Rosh Yeshiva of Ateret
Cohanim, is at 


Akiva Miller

[Location also sent in by Yehuda Landy (<nzion@...>) Mod]

From: Binyomin Segal <bsegal@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:19:59 -0600
Subject: RE: Pesach and Cleaning

Alan Friedenberg's words about how he and his wife divide the labor for
Pesach preparation struck a cord, so I thought I would chime in. Our
arrangement is almost exactly the reverse of Alan and his wife. My wife
does all the cleaning, and much of the shopping - she works part time,
and so she begins the process early but as Pesach gets closer it
intensifies. A few days before Pesach, I get out of the house with our
daugher, so that my wife can clean the kitchen. Often during that time,
I do the vegetable shopping. Once the kitchen is cleaned, I take over.
I do all the cooking for Pesach. And I do much of the physical movement
of dishes and pots.

We find this works really well for us. My wife has a couple of days to
rest up from the intense work of cleaning for Pesach, and I enjoy the
cooking that leads into Pesach. Besides, if I had to do the cleaning, we
would be eating chometz. I am simply incapable of good cleaning. But the
cooking I do well (come on over and see) and it is not a burden. By then
I am on vacation (I teach in Day School) and so the cooking does not
mean that I get no sleep. We both get to the Seder ready for a great

Probably the thing my wife most appreciates, is an old family minhag.  I
don't go to sleep on motzei pesach till all the pesach dishes are
away. When our daughter was young, that meant I did the whole thing

This is meant to point out that of course Alan is correct, Pesach work
is, and should be, a family project. Kids should be cleaning their
rooms, etc.



From: Michael Kahn <mi_kahn@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:27:39 -0500
Subject: RE: Pesach Cleaning

My familly has an interesting way of making Pesach cleaning easier. No
chametz goes above the first floor a whole year. So you can't eat in
your room but you also need not clean it for pesach.


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:42:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Pesach Resorts

> If you have the money get away, at least go to a place that will give
> you a real Jewish experience.  Think "chag" not holiday/vacation.

What if you have the money to "get away" but not the 5 times or so
amount of money to go to a "Pesach resort"?


From: c.halevi <c.halevi@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:19:34 -0600
Subject: Shul weddings -- DAVKA

Shalom, All:

Am I missing a point here, or has nobody mentioned a reason why weddings
**should** be in a shul.

IMHO, holding a wedding in a shul brings an aura of kedusha (holiness).
Being married in a shul begins the marriage with a holy environment. The
khatan (groom) and kalla (bride) are surrounded by Torah and t'fila
(prayer). Just as mitzva goreret mitzva (one mitzva leads to another
mitzva), having these surroundings begins the marriage with the right

Yeshaya (Charles Chi) Halevi


From: Harlan Braude <hbraude@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:48:39 -0500
Subject: RE: Weddings in Shuls

>       Rav Dovid Lifshitz, zt"l mentioned in shiur once that the practice
>       of not holding weddings in a synagogue is based on the mitzvah of
>       'uvechukoteyhem lo telechu' (and in their ways you shall not
>       follow, [Vayikra, 18:3]).
> Maybe I'm too much the CPA's daughter, but I find that a poor example.
> In many communities in Chu"L the synagogue is also a kosher catering
> hall.  Why deprive the synagogue of the business of a wedding?  Even if
> the only place for the chupah is the beit keneset, itself.  It's like

Perhaps my choice of the term 'synagogue' is vague, since it encompasses
more than just the room designated specifically for davening.

As I understood it, there is no prohibition against a synagogue (the
institution) hosting a wedding ceremony or holding the banquet elsewhere
on the premises (e.g., outdoors in nice weather or in the social hall,
etc.).  The prohibition, as R' Dovid explained and as you mentioned,
focuses on the chupah itself being held in the...er, um...chapel.

So, the synagogue can still rent out its facilities. It's just that some
areas of the synagogue aren't appropriate for every - even noble -

One question in return, though: If the community accepts such an
injunction upon itself, do synagogue finances mitigate it?

Kol Tuv

From: Michael J. Elman, M.D. <MJELMAN@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 09:56:58 -0500
Subject: Weddings in Shuls

When my wife and I were planning our wedding twenty five years ago, we
at first wanted the wedding to take place in a large shul.  Rav Dovid
Lifshitz ZT"L was our mesader kiddushin, and he persuaded us to move to
a hotel for the exact reason outlined above.

In Baltimore, many people get married at a large shul, but do not use
the sanctuary.  The chupa takes place either entirely outside, or in
part using other rooms.  Similarly, the kabbolas panim, choson's tisch,
and the seudas mitzvah take place in the complex without utilizing
spaces dedicated to davening.  The shul gets the business, and there is
no issue with "'uvechukoteyhem lo telechu' (and in their ways you shall
not follow, [Vayikra, 18:3])."  This practice is accepted by all the
Orthodox community here.

Michael J. Elman


From: rogovin <rogovin@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:58:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Writting name of G-d

Two posters cited the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch regarding whether one may
write God's name in a language other than Hebrew, or whether one must
write G-d or not write words such as adieu or halleluyah. Obviously I do
not hold to this assertion, but aside from what I do or do not do, I was
stunned to see that the kitzur was being cited as a statement of
normative halacha. The kitzur was written for people who did not want to
or could not look things up in the shulchan aruch (or presumably the
mishna brura, aruch hashulchan, mishna torah or other halachic
summaries, let alone learn from primary sources like the gemara). It is
a summary of a summary. As such, it does not list nuances or variant
opinions and, as do many works written now for general audiences,
reports only the most stringent view.  [One can find similar examples in
translated works where footnotes are either not translated or more
commonly are omitted entirely. Often, more lenient positions in text may
be omitted as well.] 

None of the poskim I know would ever cite to the kitzur, except to prove
that a leniency is accepted generally, even by the kitzur! This is not
because they tend toward kula (some do, some don't), but because it is
not an authoritative statement of normative halacha. For that, one looks
at the full texts, primary sources and tshuvot. 

The normative position as I understand it is to not be concerned about
writing God in languages other than Hebrew (it may even be permissible
to use the yud-yud abbreviation in Hebrew as this is equivalent to
hey-appostraphe). WHy not use G-d? I would submit that it confuses
people as to what the halacha is and that ignorance is not good. 

Frankly, we all, myself included, might wish to consider whether we
spend more time worrying about the sanctity of the "o" vs "-" as opposed
to actually sanctifying God through our words and actions in our
everyday lives: how we interact with colleagues and family, how we
conduct business, how and where we eat, etc.  

Michael Rogovin


End of Volume 42 Issue 25