Volume 42 Number 41
                 Produced: Sun Apr 11 15:57:57 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Buying Deliberate Mixing
         [Rabbi Meir]
Did Esther and Achashverosh have any children?
         [Joshua Meisner]
Duchaning outside Eretz Israel
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
Ein Dorshin
Hannover Fair
         [Dani Wassner]
Havdalah for Shabbat Hol Hamoed
         [Dina G]
Kosher Versions of non-kosher
         [Shayna Kravetz]
KSA and ChA
         [Saul Mashbaum]
Midreshei Bitya
         [Yael Levine Katz]
Priestly Blessing Topic (4)
         [Rose Landowne, David Eisen, Akiva Miller, Shmuel Carit]


From: Rabbi Meir <rabbimeir@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:03:07 +1000
Subject: Buying Deliberate Mixing

> The fundamental halachic question about the kashrut of many items is
> whether the mixing of an ingredient in minute amounts by the
> (non-Jewish) manufacturer is considered as if the Jew is doing the
> mixing (maybe when s/he buys it?) and in that case would fall under the
> rule of not allowing deliberate mixing and would be forbidden, or if it
> is considered as it is at the moment of purchase and it has already been
> mixed and is viewed as being nullified.

Would you please provide some sources for this.

meir rabi


From: Joshua Meisner <jam390@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 11:48:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Did Esther and Achashverosh have any children?

> There is a tradition, sorry, no source, that Daryavesh the king of Madai
> was their son.

	Daryavesh the Mede was the first king of the Persian-Median
empire, who defeated Belshatzar of Babylonia (Daniel 5:30-6:1).  The
king who is sometimes identified as the son of Esther and Achashveirosh
is Daryavesh the Persian, who ruled some years later.

- Josh


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:50:43 +0200
Subject: Duchaning outside Eretz Israel

As a kohen, I'm sensitive to this issue.

On a visit we made to Hong Kong last summer, we davened in the historic
Ohel Leah synagogue, where they duchan every day.

According to Rabbi Herbert C. Dobrinsky's "A Treasury of Sephardic Laws
and Customs," both the Syrian and Moroccan Jewish communities duchan

Shmuel Himelstein


From: Anonymous
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:41:07
Subject: Re: Ein Dorshin

What follows is undoubtedly a gross violation of the rules of discourse
required by mailJewish.  However, when Torah is misused and corrupted,
it calls for the strongest possible reaction.

[As I am aware of the poster's knowledge in Torah and the clear focus of
the posting is to clarify / correct what the Talmudic discourse is, it
is my opinion that this is appropriate to appear here. Mod.]

An explanation was given for the Mishna in Chagiga (11b) which
represents a total distortion of the Talmudic discourse, taking a
straightforward discussion -- that matters relating to prohibited sexual
unions should not be taught to groups of three -- into something
undreamed of by our Sages.  To point out all the absurdities in
rendering that statement as meaning "The discussion of No-Thing
generates distinctions in threes" would take Ain-Sof time.  Suffice it
to say that it not only violates common sense, but slides over the fact
that the g'mara explains the word "bishlosha" (for which it would be a
stretch in any event to mean in threes, since the singular -- "in three"
-- is used) actually is to be understood as "lishlosha," meaning _to_

The writer then states, 

> Is there any confirmation for this logical approach? Yes. The Gemara
> says so. In commenting on the translation with regard to not
> discussing 'forbidden unions' in a class of three students, the Gemara
> asks, 'My tama?' -- 'What is the reason?'  The gemara then responds,
> S'bara hu -- 'It is [simply] logic,' and then goes on with further
> explanation, based on the standard translations. The word for "logic"
> that is used here, S'bara, is spelled Samek-Bet-Resh-Alef. This itself
> is a direct reference to B'reshit (Bet-Resh-Alef.....), and
> Bet-Resh-Alef is preceded by Samek, "to sustain".  In other words, the
> Gemara is telling us that the Mishna is here to sustain the logic of
> B'reshit."

Of course, the g'mara makes no such statement.  The expression "s'vara
hu" is a common one in the Talmud, and is inevitably followed by an
explication of the reasoning involved.  Thus, e.g., the g'mara (Shabbat
96b) provides a Biblical source for not carrying from private to public
domains on Shabbat, and asks for a source for the opposite direction.
The answer is "s'vara hu," it is reasonable, that since it is the
transfer of domains, what difference if it is going out or going in.
How would the writer explain this passage on the basis of the
samch-beit-reish-alef spelling?  His entire "confirmation" is to justify
an off-the-wall interpretation of the Mishna by giving an equally wild
interpretation of the g'mara.  This confirms his misreading of the

(Incidentally, "s'vara" does not mean logic; it means reasonableness.
When the term is used, especially in the form of "mistabra," it is not a
logical necessity, but one of reasonableness.  As any mathematician
knows, the two are not identical.  Many reasonable statements turn out
to be untrue, and any counterintuitive theorem mathematically proven is
ipso facto logical but not reasonable.)

One is tempted to say that the explanation of the writer's
interpretation can be seen in his name, whose consonants are
tav-nun-nun.  Tav-nun spells "tein," give; while "nun" is a fish in
Aramaic.  Hence, it means to give fishy explanations.  I submit that
this makes as much sense as the "interpretation" given for the word
"s'vara" as "sustaining B'reishit."

Not only is the Torah part corrupted. So is the mathematics.  The
statement was made that "any structure beyond that of a point, is a
whole, and all wholes are like circles (geometrically, metaphorically),
and are defined by three points."  Has the writer ever heard of a
straight line, which is certainly a whole, and is determined not by
three, but by two, points?


From: Dani Wassner <dani@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:44:25 +0200 
Subject: Hannover Fair

Is anyone going to the Hannover Fair this year? (April 19-24). Or has
anyone been in the past?  I'm looking for info on the availability of
kosher food there (and any other tips).

Also does anyone know of a place to go/ stay over Shabbat in Frankfurt?
Is there a kosher hotel? a restaraunt? a hotel near a shul?

Any info would be helpful.
Dani Wassner,


From: Dina G <dina712@...>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Havdalah for Shabbat Hol Hamoed

Is Havdalah after Shabbat Hol Hamoed any different than that recited
after a "regular" Shabbat?




From: Shayna Kravetz <skravetz@...>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 17:43:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Kosher Versions of non-kosher

Yitzchak wrote:

>One rabbi I know likes to tell people like that mentioned above to think
>of it as a discipline, or as being similar to a dietary requirement that
>one might have because of one's physiological needs.  So, for example,
>people don't give you trouble when you avoid dairy products because you
>are lactose intolerant.  And more similarly, people seem to understand
>when folks say, "I just don't eat red meat," or "I'm a vegetarian," or
>some such.  Being Kosher *is* a discipline; the only difference is,
>instead of being physiologically-based, or from a choice, it's because
>we hold to a set of values set out in the Torah.

When someone Jewish is giving me grief about observing kashrut, I simply
tell them that I'm "allergic to treif."  This recasts the issue from a
religious dispute to courteous allowance for another's needs and
frequently lets the other person find a fresh eye on the issue.

Mo'adim le-simkhah.
Shayna in Toronto


From: Saul Mashbaum <smash52@...>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 13:31:15 +0200
Subject: KSA and ChA

In humor, as in many other thinks, timing is very important.

I posted a historically ridiculous story a few days before Purim, ending
the posting with the words "Purim Sameach".  Had the posting gone out
before Purim, I believe almost everybody would have taken it for the
Purim-Torah it was intended to be.

Unfortunately for me, the posting went out three weeks later, and the
joke fell flat on its face for many literal-minded MJ-ers.

I'm sure with a bit of effort the story can be modified to obviate its
historical inaccuracy, while retaining its humor.

I suggest that we move on.

Chag Kasher VeSameach.
Saul Mashbaum


From: Yael Levine Katz <ylkpk@...>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 15:49:23 +0200
Subject: Midreshei Bitya

Midreshei Bitya Bat Pharaoh is available at the following locations in
Jerusalem: Beit Hillel bookstore on Hillel St.; Ludwig Mayer bookstore
on Shlomzion ha-Malkah St.; Lichtenstein bookstore on Straus St. in
Jerusalem near Kikar ha-Shabbat; at Nissan Levy Store on 13 Keren
Kayyemet St., Jerusalem, or directly from myself. Orders abroad may be
placed to The Judaica Book Centre store in Jerusalem, who will send
copies airmail, and receive payment in dollars, with Visa, Mastercard,
Diners and American Express. Orders may be placed by fax, email or phone
to the Judaica Book Centre store. Fax - 972-2-9993239; Phone -
972-2-6223215; Email: Michael Rose <ziarose@...> The price of the
book in Israel is NIS30 (+5 shekel for postage). The price abroad is $10
for one copy; $23 for two.

Pesah Kasher Ve-Samekah


From: <ROSELANDOW@...> (Rose Landowne)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 02:05:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Priestly Blessing Topic

Re: the discussions of Birchat kohanim on shabbat outside of Israel, and
Targum. There is a Yemenite minyan at the West Side Institutional
Synagogue in Manhattan , where they duchan on Shabbat morning and Musaf,
and where they have a metargman who says the targum in Aramaic, pasuk by
pasuk during the Torah reading and the haftarah. They have Chumashim
which have it side by side so everyone can follow along.

Rose Landowne

From: David Eisen <davide@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 12:09:59 +0200
Subject: RE: Priestly Blessing Topic

> I am aware that this is perhaps a matter of Divrei Sofrim or even
> less, Achronim, or just plain Minhag, but I was thinking more of the
> honor of Eretz Yisrael (EY), that a distinction should be made and
> maintained that only in EY is the blessing recited.  If I understood
> correctly, the permission was based on the fact that this was a
> "chavurah" (a group) from EY who therefore somehow carry with them the
> "shefa" (abundance) of the Kedusha (sanctity) of EY.

I assume that R. Kalmenson's psak derived from the fact that the group
did not enter into a Jewish community during their trip and essentially
retained its halachic status as Bnei EY. Apropos, were this group to
spend Pesah in Poland (outside of Warsaw, Cracow or any other Jewish
community), it is my understanding that the Bnei EY would keep only one
day of Yom Tov as their personal status outweighs their current
geographic location when not in the midst of a Jewish community. 

Is my understanding correct?

B'virkat HaTorah & Hag Kasher v'Sameah,

From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 09:48:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Priestly Blessing Topic

Yisrael Medad wrote <<< I recently returned from a week's Heritage and
Holocaust tour of Poland with the Bet El Yeshiva High School. ... the
Kohanim blessed the congregation ("duchaned") during the Amidah even
though we were in Chutz La'aretz. ... I was thinking more of the honor
of Eretz Yisrael (EY), that a distinction should be made and maintained
that only in EY is the blessing recited.  If I understood correctly, the
permission was based on the fact that this was a "chavurah" (a group)
from EY who therefore somehow carry with them the "shefa" (abundance) of
the Kedusha (sanctity) of EY. Any comments? >>>

I'm wondering if this "abundance of the kedusha of Eretz Yisrael" was
truly the logic used in reaching that psak. I don't see how the honor of
Eretz Yisrael would be enhanced if you had not duchaned in Poland. Is
the honor of Eretz Yisrael decreased when Sefaradim duchan on a weekday
in Brooklyn?

Duchaning is a matter of minhag, quite different than something like
Trumos and Maasros. I'm sure that your group did not take Truma from any
of the Polish produce you ate while you were there, nor would you have
done so even if your group had been there long enough to grow your own
produce. To take Truma from Polish produce -- *that* is a foolish act,
similar to Esav's attempt to take maaser from salt.

Rather, being a group of Bnei Eretz Yisrael, I'll bet that the psak was
to continue davening with the same nusach as you use at home. That means
no "Baruch Hashem L'Olam" in weekday Maariv, no "V'Shamru" in Shabbos
Maariv, an extra Barchu after shachris and maariv, and everything else
like at home, including duchaning.

Akiva Miller

From: Shmuel Carit <cshmuel@...>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:18:30 +0000
Subject: Priestly Blessing Topic

I don't know what "shefa" actually means and what it has to do with

The concept of simcha has always been associated with duchaning. No
simcha outside of Israel except during the Chagim. There is probably no
greater absence of simcha than in Poland.

For a nice review of some of the concepts of duchaning see the Yalkut
Yosef, Chelek Alef / Tefilla, Siman Tet of Hilchot Nesiat Kapyim, the
footnote below.

He even discusses when the Vilna Gaon agreed to permit daily duchaning
in his Bet Midrash he was "coincidentally" taken off to jail. (It was a
time of great machloket.)

When R' Chaim Volozhin permitted the practice half the town and the town
bet haknesset burned down.

Apparently, the note goes on to say, there are some "secrets" in birchat
cohanim outside of Israel that we don't know.

Stuart Pilichowski
Mevaseret Zion


End of Volume 42 Issue 41