Volume 42 Number 56
                 Produced: Thu Apr 29  6:41:25 US/Eastern 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Administrivia - Warning on posted URL
Benefit from Chametz (2)
         [<Smwise3@...>, Martin Stern]
Davening in a Room where a Pet may be Present
         [Batya Medad]
Most Common Mispronunciation of Them All
         [Michael Frankel]
Music during Omer
R. Akiva and Bar Kochva
SeforimOnline.org Update  We got over 200 new seforim
Selling chametz
         [Harry Weiss]


From: c.halevi <c.halevi@...>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:00:24 -0500
Subject: Administrivia - Warning on posted URL

[Please note the warning below about a posted site. Mod.]

Shalom, Avi:

In v. 42, #50, Robert Israel relayed a message from his son, Hillel. In
it Hillel Israel referenced http://www.crowndiamond.org/cd/torah.html .
I went there, rooted around some, and it is a "Hebrew-Christian" site.

Chi Halevi


From: <Smwise3@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:31:14 EDT
Subject: Re: Benefit from Chametz

<< This may me found in other places but the Be'er Heitev in Siman 447:1
(7) at the end says that its forbidden to smell hot bread on Pesach even
that belonging to a non-jew.
Dov Teichma >>

So what is the solution?

S. Wise

From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:01:32 +0100
Subject: Re: Benefit from Chametz

on 27/4/04, Yeshaya (Charles Chi) Halevi at <halevi@...> wrote:
> But we all benefit from hametz sold *every* day of Pesah because food
> and whiskey are taxed, and those taxes provide money for police,
> firefighters etc.

This is irrelevant if the sales are between non-Jews. We are only
enjoined from benefiting from Jewishly owned hametz.

Martin Stern


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 06:51:07 +0200
Subject: Davening in a Room where a Pet may be Present

      I would like to know what the sources say about davening in a room
      where a pet may be present. I realize that one may daven with a
      seeing eye dog

I'll never forget that it's forbidden to touch a dog when you have
t'filin on, not that I've ever (had them on that is.)  My son was almost
thrown out of school in the 8th grade, because he didn't know it.  I was
called in for one of the most unpleasant and ridiculous school meetings,
because one day he walked out of the dovening, still feeling car-sick
from the ride to Beit El and some of the "BO" nearby.  A dog walked by,
and he innocently petted it.  "All hell broke loose" as the saying goes,
and they gave him some thick book to read to see what he did wrong.  He
couldn't find the reference; being dyslexic didn't help.  When they
called me in to the CONFERENCE, attended by the principal, guidance
counselor and teacher, I admitted that I certainly didn't teach him
those halachot, doubted if my husband did, obviously they didn't, and if
they thought that a dyslexic 8th grader could understand anything in the
book, they were crazy.  The guidance counselor admitted that I was 100%
right, and then the principal sheepishly backed down.  And I will never
forget that halacha.



From: Michael Frankel <michaeljfrankel@...>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:17:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Most Common Mispronunciation of Them All

>spoken languages evolve, else we would still be speaking in s'faradit > 
>accents as did card carrying Ashkenazim like Rashi and his generation.
<<    I didn't know that Rashi etc spoke in S'faradit - what's your evidence 
for that?>>

well, consider rashi on on the catch phrase "omein chatufoh" - b'rokhos
47a.  it seems clear rashi is experiencing serious difficulty with a
task we modern ashkenazim handle with ease - distinguishing between
patach and qometz, .  However, the evidence extends well beyond that.
e.g. various medieval poems, including one by R. tam, whose rhyming
scheme (i.e. real poems - those which rhyme, but that's another subject)
makes sense only if we assume a s'faradic speaker.  also, if i remember
correctly, some medieval french transliterations of hebrew words.

>the swallowing of one closely sounded letter by > the next is explicitly 
>discussed as early as Ibn Janach and quoted > approvingly by Radak. The 
>examples discussed by ibn Janach are all "tes/"tof"  conjunctions, eg. 
>v'ha'avaTi (d'vorim 16:6), and he explicitly > writes that assimilating the 
>sound is his own practice.
<<Why is this approved of when it changes the meaning?>>

Not sure what you mean by "approved" nor who it might be that might
confer such "approval".  It's merely a reported fact.  That's what the
language is - or was.  If you wish to explore halakhic consequences of
such practice, that's a different issue entirely, but the great unwashed
masses are not going to change their common language pending approval or
disapproval from some pointy-head poseiq somewhere (as it might be
seen)who is rumored to have academic difficulties. Having said that, I'm
not sure what the "academic" halachic issue is either.  Just where is it
that you think it changes any meaning if that's the common articulation
of the word?

> >..in spoken Hebrew, almost all sh'voh nohs in the middle of a word (with 
> > >the > exception of sh'voh nohs appearing under letters with dogeish) 
>have > > >weakened to sh'voh nochs (thus, kosvu - they wrote, rather than 
>the > > >"correct" kos'vu) . >
><<Material I have read says that most authorities don't agree
with you on > this, despite the beit not taking a dagesh, though which I 
haven't yet come > across an explanation for.  >>>
>I am a bit surprised to hear that and wonder what authorities
those might > be.  .. (actually kos'vu doesn't appear in tanach, so > look 
at "hol'khu" instead). It is true that twelve hundred years ago the > 
tiberian masoretes pronounced ALL mid-word sh'vohs under non-dogished > 
letters, even those following a t'nuoh g'doloh, as nochs, but modern leiners 
 > who distinguish all their sh'voh nohs do not follow tiberian 
pronunciation > in this, or in numerous other matters as well.
<<I do agree with you on kos'vu, which has a qamatz gadol and sh'va na - I 
was thinking of other examples like kosvenu (b'sefer chayim tovim)
which has a qamatz katan and sh'va nach.>>

I must apologize for remarking "kos'vu" doesn't appear in tanach.  it
does.  once. In Ezra 4:6, where, as expected, it displays a following
meseg and is doubtless a qometz godol.  But I also dispute the notion
that kosvenu is a qometz qoton+sh'voh noch. I rather think it too might
be a qometz godol and sh'voh noh. And while "kos'veinu" doesn't appear
in tanach that we might glean clues from the ba'alei mesoroh, similar
command forms such as "bor'kheini" (b'reishis 27:34) do appear and these
too have mesegs, lack dogeish lein in third letter (i.e. a rofeh), and
are as likely as not to be qometz godols - again for what its worth, the
tiqqunim which differentiate the qometz agree this one is godol.  having
said that I'll acknowledge that deciding between whether a specific
instance is godol or qoton is often difficult and respectable people
might disagree.  But ya gotta have an argument.

Mechy Frankel			H: (301) 593-3949
<michael.frankel@...>		W: (703) 845-2357


From: <Smwise3@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:21:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Music during Omer

> I would like to point out, however, that the sefira period is a somber
> time for many reasons and should not be taken lightly.  A conscious
> effort should be made to minimize simcha during this time period and
> reflect upon the tragedies that occurred during this period.  Perhaps
> our collective efforts will bring about the final redemption, and we
> shall all be able to hear the beautiful music of the rebuilt Beit
> HaMikdash.
> Steven Oppenheimer, DDS

I appreciate your comments.  That is probably the right attitude.
Anyone who has been in aveilus doesn't have the question, or at least I
didn't have any desire to listen to music during the 12 months.  Whether
it is forbidden or permitted, I prefer to follow the custom that would
get me more in the spirit of the period.  The fact that I don't listen,
reminds me daily of what occurred during that time.  With all respect to
the rabbonim cited, I suspect their advice came as a result of a
specific shaila from someone who presented a situation and facts that
led them to permit listening to music.

Understanding that music deprivation, even as a minhag, presents a
difficulty for many people, they made their respective responses.



From: c.halevi <c.halevi@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:45:07 -0500
Subject: R. Akiva and Bar Kochva

Shalom, All:

Responding to my posts on R. Akiva and Bar Kochva, Yehuda Landry (nzion)
says >>You may be right regarding R' Elazar ben Azaryah, but with regard
to Rabbi Eliezer and R Yehoshua it is unlikely. They were the Rabbeim of
R' Akiva. Taking into account that Rabbi Akivah was 120 at the time,
were his Rabbeim still alive?<<

I've never heard before that Rebbe Akiva lived to 120. But don't take my
word for it -- the Encyc. Judaica says R. Akiva's approximate lifetime
was far less: from about 50-135 C.E.  The Jewish Encyc.Online.com pegs
him at born about 50 C. E. and martyred about 132. That puts him in his
80s, not 120!  As for his Rabbeim, that would require a major search and
I lack the time. There are billions of m-j people wiser than I am, and
perhaps somebody could shed some light on this.

Kol Tuv, 
Yeshaya (Charles Chi) Halevi


From: seforim-announce <support@...>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:51:30 -0400
Subject: SeforimOnline.org Update  We got over 200 new seforim

Dear Subscribers.

SeforimOnline.org is proud to announce that we have obtained over 200
new seforim. Due to the fact that we are understaffed we are still very
behind on writing descriptions on each of these seforim and adding them
to the web site.

In order not to keep everyone in suspense for months we have decided to
create a new section on our web site called "Unsorted Seforim". This
section just has a list of files named in Hebrew with the name of the
sefer. Most of them are already in the PDF format, but some are in
Multipage TIF format and some are just separate pages in
folders. Eventually all of these seforim will move over to their
permanent location on our site and will get written descriptions and
publication dates both in English and Hebrew.

The direct link the Unsorted Seforim section is:


We are still planning to move over to a database format for the web site
in the future. If anyone would like to volunteer to create a database
web site for us, please let us know.

Thank you for making us a great success.

Best Regards.
SeforimOnline.org Staff


From: Harry Weiss <hjweiss@...>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:20:42 -0700
Subject: Selling chametz

When we sell our chametz, instead of apointing the Rabbi to be Shaliach,
we sell it to him effective, the day before erev Pesach.  That covers us
for the earlier time that Pesach comes in for us when we are on the East
Coast.  He buys it back and gives it to us on Motzei Pesach on the West
Coast which is 3 hours after Pesach was over for us.


End of Volume 42 Issue 56