Volume 44 Number 72
                    Produced: Fri Sep 10  5:11:17 EDT 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Ain't gonna work on Saturday
         [Ari Trachtenberg]
Batei Kenesiot and Yekum Purkan
         [Mark Symons]
eCommerce and Shabbat
         [Tzvi Stein]
A Grammatical Point
         [Akiva Miller]
Hebrew words for "lion"
         [Alan Cooper]
         [Ira L. Jacobson]
Pasuk for Leib
         [Ira L. Jacobson]
Shofar - Variations on a theme
         [Stephen Phillips]
Speckled sticks and sheep (2)
         [Josh Backon, Ben Katz]
What is a Language
         [Irwin Weiss]
Yiddish Names  -- make that non-Hebrew names
         [Kenneth G Miller]
Yuhara (2)
         [Ari Trachtenberg, Emmanuel Ifrah]


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:14:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Ain't gonna work on Saturday

> From: Carl Singer <casinger@...>
> (speech, davening, layning) is not "work" in the halachic sense

> The caterer may appear to be a bit less obvious -- but again since
> there's no issue of devar mitzvah, etc.  ...and therefore he, too, is
> being paid for his pre-Shabbos preparation and being reimbursed for
> the food (which I presume he must "sell" to the b'al simcha prior to
> Shabbos.)

I have often wondered about this "maneuver".  Would one be able to sue a
caterer who fails to show up for a Shabbat event for monetary damages if
the caterer provides you with the food and actually does the pre-Shabbat
preparation?  More controversially, could a shul dismiss a paid rabbi
for not coming to the shul on Shabbatot or chagim (but being available
for the pre- and post- Shabbat work; suppose the rabbi prefers to pray
at a nearby shul)?



From: Mark Symons <msymons@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:17:07 +1000
Subject: Batei Kenesiot and Yekum Purkan

>> From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
>> However, I am not sure that this is the case in Hebrew, or at least
>> for rabbinic hebrew.  see for example batei kenesiot (not batei
>> keneset) in yehum purkan,.
> Of course, Yekum Purkan is not in Hebrew.....
> Robert

I think Ben means the Misheberach following Yekum Purkan which is in Hebrew.

Mark Symons

[Similar responses from:
	 Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin@...>
	 Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
	 Stephen Phillips <admin@...>
	 Ben Katz <bkatz@...> who adds:

In fact, it is a later "updated" version of yekum purkan in hebrew
precisely because no one spoke aramaic anymore.



From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Subject: Re: eCommerce and Shabbat

>Whose Shabbos and Yom Tov? Let's say someone is coming to the site from
>Israel and it's Shabbos in Israel but not in New York? What about the
>reverse? You can see how this would get tricky...

Indeed... in fact, there are a total of 48 consecutive hours each week
that it is Shabbos *somewhere* in the world.  For example in New York's
time zone, that perdiod runs from approx. midnight (12:01 a.m.)
Fri. morning to midnight (12:01 a.m.) Sun. morning.  In order to take
that into account, one's web site would have to be closed during that
entire time, and the same would go for each day of Yom Tov.


From: Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:57:40 GMT
Subject: re: A Grammatical Point

Just wondering: Has anyone ever heard the plural "holidays" referred to
as "Yamim Tov"?

I've heard they word "yomtovim", which I presume to be a plural of the
*Yiddish* word "yontev", but in Hebrew the term seems to be "Yamim
Tovim". This appears in the Mishna (Taanis 4:7): "Lo hayu Yamim Tovim
l'Yisrael k'chamisha asar b'Av uk'Yom HaKippurim". 

It also appears in some siddurim, in Benching, in the bracha which one
would add on Yom Tov if one forgot Yaaleh v'Yavo and remembered it
immediately after Boneh B'rachamav Yerushalayim. And maybe elsewhere as

Is this phrase at all relevant to this discussion?

Akiva Miller


From: Alan Cooper <amcooper@...>
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:49:46 -0400
Subject: Hebrew words for "lion"

>From: Sam Saal <ssaal@...>
>Can any of you point me to a commentary that explains the difference in
>the Torah's use of Ari versus Aryh? Note: I'm significantly less
>interested in known differences found in Na'Ch...just the Torah.

The basic source would be Avot de-Rabbi Natan, Nusach B, near the end of
chapter 43, "7 shemot niqra aryeh" [a lion is called by 7 names], "aryeh
in its youth; ari in its old age . . . ."  The most extensive discussion
I know of the way these words are distinguished in traditional sources
is Solomon Wertheimer, Bei'ur shemot ha-nirdafim, pp. 57-60.  There's
not much there on ari/aryeh, though.

Alan Cooper 


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:58:13 +0300
Subject: Re: Language

Ben Katz <bkatz@...> stated the following on Thu, 02 Sep
2004 17:18:02 -0500

      shabasim is a misguided attempt to pluralize a hebrew word with a
      hebrew ending that is incorrect (masculine vs feminine) and is
      therefore a corruption.

That logic would make afunim (peas) a corruption.  Not to mention nashim

In other words, whatever merit the observation may have, the cited
criterion does not strike me as being valid.

IRA L. JACOBSON         


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:18:19 +0300
Subject: Re: Pasuk for Leib

REMT stated the following regarding the spelling of Leib in Hebrew:

      It's not a question of prevalence, but of halacha.  For
      Ashk'nazim, the tzeire in a non-Hebrew name is to be
      transliterated by a single yod.  Indeed, the spelling of the name
      Leib with a single yod is explicitly mentioned in the Beis Shmuel
      in Even Haezer 129, in the list of men's names for writing in a

This is of course what appears in the Beit Shemuel.

I do wonder, though, based on the Mehaber in Even Ha`ezer 129:25.  He
discusses how to write Yonatan and says that it should be written
without a he, unless the person himself writes it with a he.  In other
words, the spelling actually used by the person is what determines how
his name should be written in a get.

It would not take a leap of faith to apply this to the spelling of
Leib--choosing the spelling used by the person, which could even include
two yods.

Why not, at least according to the mehaber?

IRA L. JACOBSON         


From: Stephen Phillips <admin@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:34:25 +0100
Subject: Re: Shofar - Variations on a theme

AF> From: <Daniel_Raye@...> (Daniel Raye)
> I am interested to know whether anyone is aware of discussions of the
> different styles used by tok'im for the tekia, shevarim and terua notes.
> There are a number of different minhagim that I have heard or heard
> about over the years, for instance:

> - the number of notes making up a shevarim

I think that there is no question that there have to be at least 3, but
that there is no upper limit. The length of each Shever ideally should
not be as long as a Teruah as then it might be construed as a Tekiah
(which has to be at least as long as the Shevarim or Shevarim-Teruah or
Teruah in the middle).

> - plain (i.e. same pitch throught the note) or "whining" (i.e. raising the
> pitch of the note at the end) shevarim/tekia

I saw recently in the Yalkut Yosef where he mentions the Sefardi minhag
of the "whining" note you refer to but that those who do a plain note
(which is what I am accustomed to do) should not be prevented from doing

> - terua made up of several individual short blasts or one long blast broken
> up by moving the shofar itself

I do the former on the basis that, ISTM IMHO, the latter is really only
one note.

Stephen Phillips


From: <BACKON@...> (Josh Backon)
Date: Wed,  8 Sep 2004 15:00 +0200
Subject: Re: Speckled sticks and sheep

Actually, what Yaakov Avinu did was not classical Mendelian genetics at
all but rather epigenetic manipulation. In the past 3 years there have
been a number of papers on prenatal nutritional effects on DNA
methylation, epigenetics and the Agouti gene on fur color. Last year
when I saw one of the papers at our med school library, I happened to be
sitting next to a frum American who is probably one of the world's
leading experts in epigenetics. I casually mentioned that epigenetic
manipulation on Agouti gene fur color was probably what Yaakov Avinu did
and he concurred. I then checked with a senior botanist at the Volcani
Agricultural Research Center in Israel regarding methionine and choline
levels in MAKEL LIVNEH LACH vLUZ vARMON. His expertise being plant fungi
he checked and found that a) these plants are found in northwestern Iraq
where Lavan lived; b) fungi in bark are very host specific; c) the 3
different fungi could affect epigenetics.

Yaakov by peeling off the bark and placing the sticks in water would get
the soluble substances into the water trough where the sheep fed.

After an exhaustive check on literally every one of the Mefarshim on the
pasuk in Bereishit (as well as in Midrash and its commentaries), I have
prepared a paper on this topic for publication in the JEWISH BIBLE
QUARTERLY that ought to be sometime in 2006.

Kol Tuv

Dr. Josh Backon
Hebrew University
Faculty of Medicine

From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:56:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Speckled sticks and sheep

>From: <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver)
>Yehuda Feliks, in his marvelous book "Man and Nature in the Bible,"
>offers a cute Mendelian explanation, involving recessive genes, which
>Yaakov had a way of detecting and Lavan did not. The speckled sticks
>were just used by Yaakov to mislead Lavan about what he was really

         I believe this is the explanation that Sarna quoted in the JPS
Torah Comemntary that I did not find convincing.  However, I did not
check the original source; perhaps there it is argued more cogently.
Thanks for the reference; I will try to check it.

         Shana tova

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
e-mail: <bkatz@...>

To: <mail-jewish@...>

From: Irwin Weiss <irwin@...>
Subject: What is a Language

Two observations:

Reports Bernard Katz: "As the great Yiddish linguist Max Weinreich once
put the matter, "A shprakh iz a diyalekt mit an armey un a flot" ("A
language is a dialect with an army and navy")." Of course, we can't take
this too literally, since some countries have really no navy as they are
landlocked (Switzerland, Paraguay, Nepal come to mind).

The other observation is that some languages are the same spoken but are
different when written (Urdu and Hindi)--or maybe it's the other way



From: Kenneth G Miller <kennethgmiller@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:08:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Yiddish Names  -- make that non-Hebrew names

In MJ 44:65, Carl Singer wondered out loud, <<< Yiddish names are common
and are acceptable with no Hebrew name given -- do others, say Persian
Jews use names that are Pharsi (only) without a Hebrew name. >>>

Rav Moshe Feinstein discusses this in Igros Moshe, Orach Chaim 4:66. He
cites several examples, such as a rishon by the name of "Rabenu Vidal",
and says that "Maimon" - the name of the Rambam's father - also appears
to be a foreign name.

Akiva Miller


From: Ari Trachtenberg <trachten@...>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:28:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Yuhara

 >From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>

 > One could even make a halachic argument against glatt because of the
 > increased expense.

I recall an even more compelling argument given by a friend (who will
remain nameless because I haven't asked for permission to use her name).
Meat is designated glatt by a shokhet who investigates the animals'
lungs.  If the shokhet finds nothing (i.e. a completely smooth lung),
the meat is designated "glatt" and is much more expensive.  Otherwise,
the shokhet has to look carefully at whatever "lesions" are on the lung
(possibly scraping at them) to see if they invalidate the kashrut of the
animal.  As such, a shokhet has a financial interest in "not noticing"
any lesions that could otherwise render the animal treif.  This
financial interest, if not handled properly, could reduce the
reliability of glatt meat as kosher (much like a paid mashgiach [kosher
supervisor] should not have financial interest in what he/she is

From: Emmanuel Ifrah <emmanuel_ifrah@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:40:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Yuhara

> Many smaller observant Jewish communities (eg New Haven) do fine with
> just "regular" kosher.  One could even make a halachic argument
> against glatt because of the increased expense.

In Paris, France which is considered to have Western Europe's largest
Jewish population (est. 300,000), most of the meat sold and served in
restaurants (under the supervision of the Paris Beth Din) is "stam
kosher" (Rema).

Different Chareidi communities have had separate "glatt" shechita for

Chabad also have their shechita complying with their own chassidische
requirements (plus one of the local Chabad communities imports meat from

Since the demand has been growing for the past few years, the Beth Din
of Paris now also proposes the Sephardic public "Chalak Beth Yossef"
meat.  (However one should note that in North Africa, the stricture of
the Mechaber regarding "chalak" meat was not accepted as a standard and
only "yechidey segula" would restrain from eating "stam kosher" meat.)

Emmanuel Ifrah


End of Volume 44 Issue 72