Volume 44 Number 86
                    Produced: Mon Sep 20 22:18:14 EDT 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Cholah or Cholanit (s)
         [Gilad J. Gevaryahu]
Correct Lashon
         [Joseph Ginzberg]
         [Bernard Raab]
Interesting Teimani (Yemenite) Customs
         [Shmuel Himelstein]
MIT's multi-denominational chapel
         [Russell J Hendel]
Rosh Hashana prayers
         [Sholom Parnes]
Saturday work? - babysitting
         [Leah S. Gordon]
Speckled sticks and sheep
         [Bernard Raab]
         [Saul Mashbaum]
Third Person
         [Batya Medad]


From: <Gevaryahu@...> (Gilad J. Gevaryahu)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:31:30 EDT
Subject: Cholah or Cholanit (s)

This issue of what is correct: Cholah or Cholanit(s)? was extensivly
discussed on MailJewish Volume 38. See for
example: http://www1.emax.ca/mj_ht_arch/v38/mj_v38i47.html#CQQ 

I was of the opinion

<<Therefore, for consistency of the linguistic form, a misheberach for
the sick should be for "Choleh and Cholah" while misheberach for the
sickly should be to "Cholani and Cholanit." But since nobody wants to
get into medical diagnosis within misheberach to determine if the person
is sick or sickly, it should probably be for "Choleh and Cholah.">>

Gilad J. Gevaryahu


From: Joseph Ginzberg <jgbiz120@...>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:45:38 -0400
Subject: Correct Lashon

Since there are several threads involving correct hebrew queries such as
Chola/cholanis and yamim tovim, I am taking the opportunity to ask
something that has long bothered me:

When Rosh Chodesh is two days, in the Bircas Hachodesh what would be the
correct nusach?

Every siddur I have seen says "..... Haboh aleinu", whereas if it is two
days it appears to me that it should be "Habaim alaynu".  I heard once
that a certain Chassidic group does say it that way, but I cannot
remember the group- It was one of the very small ones.

Can anyone explain this to me?
Shana Tova to all.
Yossi Ginzberg


From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:43:56 -0400
Subject: Glatt

>From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
>Ari Trachtenberg wrote:
> >  As such, a shokhet has a financial interest in "not noticing"
> > any lesions that could otherwise render the animal treif.  This
> > financial interest, if not handled properly, could reduce the
> > reliability of glatt meat as kosher (much like a paid mashgiach [kosher
> > supervisor] should not have financial interest in what he/she is
> > supervising).
>A shoykhet gets paid the same for a treifa animal as for a kosher one.
>So where is the financial interest?

Treif animals are slaughtered on an "assembly line" at much lower cost.
If the shokhet declares an animal treif the kosher slaughterhouse (his
employer) must absorb the difference.

l'shana tova--Bernie R.


From: Shmuel Himelstein <himels@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:25:41 +0300
Subject: Interesting Teimani (Yemenite) Customs

Toward the back of last year's Heichal Shlomo Lu'ach Dinim Uminhagim
(p. 25) there is a section which lists Teimani (Yemenite) customs which
are worthy of note. I believe that Mail Jewish readers should find them
interesting, so I am listing some of these.

1) The Torah reading is followed verse by verse by the Targum
translation, except for 21 specific verses which are not translated
(which ones are not specified in this list).

2) Each person called up to the Torah reads his own portion.

3) Children under BarMitzvah are included in the seven Aliyot, and
Shishi is generally reserved for someone under BarMitzvah age.

4) When more than one Sefer Torah must be taken out only one is taken
out at a time, and after it is returned the next one is taken out.

5) Some Teimanim have the custom, where others join together the Sidrot
Mattot and Masa'ei, to take the three Sidrot of Korach-Chukat-Balak and
divide them into two Shabbatot, i.e., half of Chukat with Korach and
half with Balak.

6) Birkat Halevanah is said as soon as the new moon is seen, as per the
ruling of Rambam.

7) On Friday night, one says Hamelech Hakadosh instead of Ha'Keil
Hakadosh the whole year (all I can say is that my copy of the Yemenite
Siddur, known as Tiklal, does not note this. )

8) For all ten days of Aseret Yemei Teshuvah the blessing of Ata Kadosh
is expanded (as it is by others only on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur)
with the addition of Uvechayn tayn pachdecha ).

9) On Rosh Hashanah Musaf, there is no repetition of the Amidah by the
Chazan. Instead, the Chazan says the prayer aloud, and all say it along
with him. (because of the absence of printed texts? SH)

10) The shofar blowing consists of 40 blasts, 30 at the beginning,
followed by four (Tekiah, Shevarim-Teruah, Tekiah) after Malchuyot,
three (Tekiah, Shevarim, Tekiah) after Zichronot, and three (Tekiah,
Teruah, Tekiah) after Shofarot. Some blow another 30 blasts before the

11) Whenever the full Hallel is said, after each half-verse the
congregation responds "Halleluyah" for a total of 123 times, the age of
Aaron when he died.

12) On Tisha B'Av eve, the number of years since the destruction is

13) In the Ma'ariv before each fast day, each individual recites Aneinu
in the Shema Koleinu blessing of the Amidah.

14) The Shema is recited by all together aloud.

15) Aleinu is not said after Minchah.

Shmuel Himelstein


From: Russell J Hendel <rjhendel@...>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:44:46 -0400
Subject: RE: MIT's multi-denominational chapel

I actually leined for many years at the chapel at MIT---the Rav was
still alive the. As noted (v44n82) in Samuels posting there was an
interchangeable ark/crucifix.

Just wanted to confirm that the Rav did allow it---also wanted to
clearly explain the "interchangeable part". The chapel room itself-- if
you walked in during the week had "nothing in it" except chairs and a
table at the center of the room The architect had weird ideas...  so
there were little lights resembling stars on the ceiling and a sort of
skylight over the table (To give the impression of "Divine light"
beaming down).

The religious utensils of the various groups were brought up by the
elevator.  So when it was our turn the elevator brought up the
Aron. (The Mechitzahs were stored elsewhere and brought up separately).

Also thought I should mention the "politics" of the inter-faith chapel.
MIT (like other universities) made a serious effort to cater to all
religions. By affiliating with this chapel we affirmed our committment
to this respect to all religions

However personally all of us did not like the lighting in the chapel
(The architect thought God was best approached in darkness). One Shabbos
we could not be in the chapel and we prayed nearby in the girls
dormitory---the lighting was much better (as well as the cakes that the
girls baked for us)

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.Rashiyomi.com/


From: Sholom Parnes <merbe@...>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:42:35 +0200
Subject: Rosh Hashana prayers

On the eve of Rosh Hashana (Jewish New Year) after T'filat Amidah (the
silent prayer) we opened the Ark and the Shaliach Tzibur (prayer leader)
chanted l'Dovid Mizmor (psalm 24) verse by verse with the congregation
repeating each verse. (Yasher Koach to fellow MJ'er, Jay Bailey who was
our Shaliach Tzibur ).

I'd imagine that this custom is pretty universal.

One of my fellow congregants pointed out that in his Machzor (holiday
prayer book) there was no instruction to open the ark for this
prayer. My Machzor also lacked this instruction. I then did a rather
unscientific canvassing of about 12 or 15 different Machzorim and did
not find any instruction to open the ark. The prayer books checked
included, Rinat Yisrael, Koren, Machzor Ha'mikdash, Machzor Raba,
Machzor Kol Bo etc.In the Artscroll Machzor I found the notation that
some congregations have the custom of opening the ark (no source
given). I wonder if the basis for the Artscroll notation is based on a
reflection of reality rather than an identifiable source.

Can anyone identify a source for this custom ?
Gmar Chatima Tova.
Sholom Parnes


From: Leah S. Gordon <leah@...>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:43:20 -0700
Subject: Saturday work? - babysitting

Martin Stern writes, in part:
"the baal koreh etc. in shul, or the caterer at a kiddush or other
function, do not do any melachah, halachically defined work, on shabbat
so it is not a question of some professions being allowed to work while
others are not as Daniel Lowinger puts it."
[comments deleted about how one is paid for the weekday planning to
circumvent the rabbinic ban on payment for shabbat work]
"A common problem is paying a baby sitter who only comes on shabbat. If
she does no babysitting (or other work) on a weekday then it is
difficult to see how she can be paid at all."

So my question is, why is there a problem with paying the baby sitter if
s/he doesn't do any melacha?  Can't we assume, that like the rabbi etc.,
she is thinking/planning/packing-toys etc. before shabbat?  And, does it
matter if s/he is Jewish?



From: Bernard Raab <beraab@...>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:37:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Speckled sticks and sheep

>From: N Miller <nm1921@...>
>It might seem understandable that frum Jews with scientific backgrounds
>experience a kind of intellectual unease (aka cognitive dissonance) when
>confronting the Torah narrative. <snip>
>For what it's worth, I hold with the by-now dated idea that faith and
>science exist in parallel universes. Neither has the slightest bearing
>on the other. We are free to move back and forth between the two but we
>try in vain to make the two worlds one, to resolve contradictions. I on
>the other hand cherish contradiction: to be able to believe that the
>Torah was written by Moses and at the same time to see it as a document
>probably written and edited by many hands. That's _my_ way of resolving
>cognitive dissonance.

For many of us, that relegates the Torah narrative to the realm of myth
or fable, a step which I for one am not prepared to take. Nor am I
comfortable with that position vis-a-vis my grandchildren, with some of
whom I just had a brief science-Torah discussion. Since tonight marks
Rosh Hashana we got into a discussion of the meaning of 5765. The three
boys in this group are now in grades 5, 3 and 1 in what most would
describe as a right-leaning modern-orthodox day school. The 5th grader
offered the idea that this is the age of the Torah, which I was happy to
accept, offering the additional idea that this might have been when
Hashem started to communicate with Man (Adam). The 3rd grader was of the
notion that this is the age of the universe, and that his rebbe had
suggested that the dinosaurs were killed in the mabul (flood), but that
Hashem had made their bones appear much older. I recognized this as a
position taught in haredi schools, and this presented m e with a
dilemma: I did not wish to denigrate his rebbe in any way, and yet I
could not let this idea go unchallenged. In the end I merely suggested
that I had trouble accepting that Hashem would deliberately try to
confuse us by leaving bogus clues around. Since his rebbe had apparently
not been dogmatic, he was just as amenable to accepting the idea
advanced by his older brother.

Unfortunately, we have not yet reached a consensus in the MO world as to
how these ideas should be taught, and with so many of the rebbeim coming
from the yeshiva world, this consensus will be a long time coming.

l'shana tova--Bernie R.


From: Saul Mashbaum <smash52@...>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 23:00:43 +0200
Subject: Re: Tal/Geshem

The following joke is both humorous and sad. To state what I hope is
obvious, my intention is not to ridicule or denigrate well-intentioned
people who are less learned than I and the mJ readership are, but to
point out a potential pitfall of uninformed service leading.  The story
is apocryphal, but I wouldn't be surprised if it describes an actual

Properly told, the story is better transmitted orally than in writing.
End of disclaimers.

The cantor in a Reform congregation was occasionally accompanied by a
choir of musically talented but severely Hebrew-challenged congregants
who were usually clueless as to what they were singing.

Thus it came about that at the end of Tal/Geshem, when the cantor recited
the words: "Livracha v'lo li-klala",
the choir responded dramatically "LI-KLALA".

Saul Mashbaum


From: Batya Medad <ybmedad@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:17:34 +0200
Subject: Third Person

This year, while I was dovening, I found myself noticing something in
the language of the prayers. We pray directly to G-d, using the simple
second person, as if we're talking directly to a friend. It's unlike
many languages that dictate that when speaking to someone distinguished,
one speaks in third person. This has me confused, as it it considered
proper nowadays to use third person when speaking to a rabbi. I wonder
when this third person to a rabbi talk began. It doesn't seem Jewish. If
we can speak directly to G-d, then we should speak directly to other
men, even distinguished rabbis.


ps This is an excerpt from my "musings" in progress, and I would like 
some answers. Thanks


End of Volume 44 Issue 86