Volume 45 Number 15
                    Produced: Tue Oct 12  4:32:18 EDT 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Aleinu after Mincha and on Yom Kippur
         [Howard S. Joseph]
         [Tzvi Stein]
A Beautiful Theory Of Biblical Chapter Divisions
         [Andrew Marks]
Biography and Info on Maharsham
Breaks on Yom Kippur
         [Tzvi Stein]
Female Rabbi
         [Nathan Lamm]
Female rabbis
Jewish names - Shneur
         [N Miller]
Not benefiting from work done by Jew on Shabbat
         [Tzvi Stein]
Shaking the Lulav
         [Martin Stern]
         [Shimon Lebowitz]
Songs For Hakafot
         [Yael Levine Katz]
Third Person
         [Ben Katz]
Unfair competition?
         [Sam Saal]


From: Howard S. Joseph <hsjoseph@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:44:44 -0400
Subject: Aleinu after Mincha and on Yom Kippur

In the Sephardi prayerbooks Aleinu is found after both Mussaph and Minha
on Yom Kippur. There is no instruction to omit if there is no break.
Apparently it is felt that this is the proper way to end a service break
or not.

Maybe it is similar to those Synagogues who say Minha and Arvit back to
back everyday. Aleinu is still recited for each.

Howard S. Joseph
Rabbi, Spanish Portuguese Synagogue
Montreal, Quebec  Canada  H3W1S1


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 06:49:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Bathrooms

> From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
> The discussion of the "Shabbat paper" brings an important point that I
> was once taught to mind: When discussing what can and can't be done in
> bathrooms, we should remember that the halakhot as formulated were
> referring to the types of facilities- e.g., outhouses- where waste (not
> to mention odor) remained in place.  Modern day bathrooms are, at almost
> all times, quite clean of what halakha is trying to avoid.

Actually, the status of modern day bathrooms is quite an unsettled area
of halacha.  At the risk of "too much information", the problematic area
is that the waste sits in the receptacle for a certain length of
time... it is not flushed away immediately.  There are poskim who rule
both ways.  That's why we are machmir.

> I don't mean to say that one can, say, wear tefillin in a bathroom,
> but merely that we should reevaluate our attitudes toward them.

Actually, there are opinions that one can wear the tefillin shel yad
(hand), but not shel rosh (head) in a modern-day bathroom.


From: Andrew Marks <machmir@...>
Subject: Re: A Beautiful Theory Of Biblical Chapter Divisions

It's a nice theory, but I'm afraid you're double counting at least two
or three days each year: there is always at least one shabbos in Succos
and one shabbos during Pesach.  There is also the issue of years like
this one in which we have Yom Kippur falling on shabbos kodesh also.
Similarly, the second day of Rosh Hashana is (if I remember correctly)
d'rabanan because we don't know if chodesh elul will be me'uber until on
Rosh Hashana itself.

Also, I'm not sure why people wouldn't learn on shabbos and yom tov.
People doing shnayim mikra or chitat certainly learn "new" sections on
those days.  Of course, this begs the qurstion of what does the word
"review" mean in this context as every year after the first would be
technically speaking review.



From: <Shuanoach@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:07:55 EDT
Subject: Biography and Info on Maharsham

Can anyone help me find information on the maharsham, r. shalom
mordechai ha-cohein shwardron?  I am looking for any books or articles
written on his life and works in the last 50 or so years.  In
particular, why is he considered to be the poseik acharon in many
chassidic circles, comparable to the mishnah berurah for Lithuanians?
(Why not a chasiddic poseik?)  Do any chassidic sources/halakhci works
discuss this point. I am looking specifically for written sources to
back up what i have heard from people.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Gut Mo'ed
y. l.


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Subject: Re: Breaks on Yom Kippur

> From: Edward Black <edwardblack@...>
> > From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
> > In my shul which does not have a break on Yom Kippur we do not say
> > aleinu at all until after Ma'ariv on Motsa'ei YK. Is this also the case
> > in other English shuls?

I just wanted to add a side point... I used to daven at shuls with no
break, but the past few years I've been going to one with about a 2-hour
break, and I think it really improves the experience.  I find I don't
feel so overwhelmed in the morning, and I'm able to concentrate more.
Also, having had a nap helps for Mincha/Neila.  Even just being able to
walk outside helps me shift gears and think about Yom Kippur in a
different way.

When I used to go the ones with no break, I quite often noticed people
dozing off during the davening or walking in and out of the shul.  I
think you have to weigh the pros and cons, with people's true nature and
limitations in mind.  A friend of mine put it quite eloquently, "I like
davening, and I like sleeping, but I don't like to mix the two."


From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:40:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Female Rabbi

Avi Feldblum, commenting on my post, says:

"I think a more correct formulation is that today "some" Rabbis are
those who lead a shul etc."

Of course. And, indeed, there are many women today who fulfill other
roles that men with semikha have traditionally held- teachers of Jewish
studies, of course, but also mashgichim (mashgichot?), halakhic
advisors, and so on. I think it's only when the question approaches a
shul that controversy would arise.

[I'll take the liberty of interjecting: I think that many, if not most,
of the Orthodox women who support the idea of a women Rabbi would be
very happy if your statement above would be true - that there would be
no controversy over a women getting s'mecha for use in
non-congregational purposes, e.g. p'sak halacha. I strongly suspect
there are many among us who do object to that. Avi]

(Of course, many, perhaps most, men with semikha hold no "Jewish"
position at all.)

Nachum Lamm


From: Leah <leah25@...>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:18:04 -0700
Subject: Female rabbis

Several Israeli Orthodox institutions have been training women to "help"
other women with halachik questions (such as those of taharat
hamishpacha). Rabbanit Henkin's Nishmat is one such example. The
graduates are extremely proficient, but they are still not defined as
poskot or rabbis and work under the auspices of a real rabbi.

In a recent shiur I heard an interesting angle on the issue. The
contemporary rabbis have two main roles. One is to teach and to answer
questions, which are routed in the askers' ignorance of halacha. Nothing
prevents women from acting in this role. The rabbis' other
responsibility (and not every male rabbi is capable of that) is to issue
psak, that is to consider all components of a complex issue and to make
a new ruling for the specific case. This requires smicha, which so far
has only been granted to males.

Leah Aharoni
Hebrew/Russian/English translator


From: N Miller <nmiller@...>
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 12:06:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Jewish names - Shneur

Leah Perl Shollar writes:
> Also, there are no other names in Jewish tradition meaning 'mister',

While 'senor' in modern Spanish has come to mean 'mister', its original
meaning was 'lord'.  It is thus an honorific. (The same is true of
course for 'mister'; either way, you can't solve etymological puzzles by
referring to current usage.)

While there are names that connect to like, such as Feivish or Feivel,
which derive from Phoebus, meaning light.

Phoebus is from the Greek for 'shining', hence the name given Phoebus
Apollo, the Greek sun god. The fact that the Jewish name for Faybush is
'Shrage', from the Aramaic for light or lantern, might suggest some
embarrassment at Jews being named for strange gods. (What's the Jewish
name for Isidore?)

Noyekh Miller


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:50:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Not benefiting from work done by Jew on Shabbat

There's also a very common chumrah in Bnei Brak and Mea Shearim of not
using electricity on Shabbos, due to the possibility of Jews at the
electric company doing malachos.  They use lamps with gas canisters,
battery operated lights or generators.  Using generators is even
considered "lenient" in those circles because it may "appear" that you
are using regular electricity.


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:13:08 +0100
Subject: Re: Shaking the Lulav

on 10/10/04 4:28 am, Eli Turkel <turkel@...> wrote:

> Poskim say that when one moves one can keep his original minhag on
> waving the lulav even though his current shul does it differently.
> This is only a custom and so the rules of lo tigodedu don't apply.

Is Eli suggesting that this is the way one should behave in shul or only
when shaking the lulav privately? It might not be disruptive when making
the berachah since people tend to do this separately but, at least in
our shul where we all shake in unison as we sing 'hodu' and 'ana',
anyone who does it in different directions to the rest of the
mitpallelim will 'collide' with other people's lulavim leading to
general disorder. Surely this would be a prime example of the problem of
lo titgodedu.

Martin Stern


From: Shimon Lebowitz <shimonl@...>
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:39:17 +0200
Subject: Re: Shneur

> > The name Shneur is actually mentioned in the Ramban's drasha on Rosh
> > Hashana, so has a very old vintage. 
> If I remember correctly, the Ramban is referring there to one of the
> brothers who headed the Evreaux yeshiva, in 13th century Normandy. (See
> E.E. Urbach, Baalei haTosafot, pp. 479-485). Their father's name was
> Shneur. Their culture was entirely French-Ashkenazi, which is why I found
> it unconvincing that the name Shneur is derived from the Spanish. I
> suppose it is possible. Does anyone know of an earlier use of the name?

I saw this today, and tonight at the Daf Yomi shiur, I saw a response!
Temura, 18a, tosefot "afilu mimirayhu" quotes Rabbi Yitzchak bar Shneor.

Moadim lesimcha,
Shimon Lebowitz                           mailto:<shimonl@...>
Jerusalem, Israel            PGP: http://www.poboxes.com/shimonpgp


From: Yael Levine Katz <ylkpk@...>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:44:06 +0200
Subject: Songs For Hakafot

One of the popular songs sung during hakafot in recent years, at least
in Israel, is "Tehe ha-sha'a ha-zot she'at rahamim ve-et razon
milfanekha".  These words are taken from "Avinu Malkenu", and are in the
category of a "bakasha". Avinu Malkenu is recited on Rosh ha-Shanah,
when it falls during the week, i.e. not on Shabbat, and on Yom Kippur is
all cases. Since the words of the song are a "bakasha", I was wondering
therefore about the permissibility of singing it on Simhat Torah in
general, and whether a diffrenciation should perhaps be drawn between
Simhat Torah which falls on a weekday versus Simhat Torah which falls on



From: Ben Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:06:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Third Person

>From: Saul Mashbaum <smash52@...>
>Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...> wrote
> >In Biblical grammar, there are switches from 2nd to 3rd person all the
> >time.
>It is interesting to observe that some halachic portions of the Torah
>are expressed in the second person ("you should/should not do
>something") and some in the third person ("one should/should not do
>something"; often "if such and such happens to a person, then he should
>do such and such").
> [snip]
>I wonder if this has been noted. I am particularly interested in finding
>a commentary which explains the key to this pattern: why are some
>commandments expressed in the second person, and some in the third?

         The point I was trying to make is that it is a matter of
Biblical style to alternate 2nd and 3rd person, without necessarily
there being any "reason" behind it, just as Biblical poetry repeats
phrases without there necessarily bering a reason for the repetition.

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614
e-mail: <bkatz@...>


From: Sam Saal <ssaal@...>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:56:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: re: Unfair competition?

Carl Singer <casinger@...> asks:

>I have an arovos bush in my backyard and I invite several of my friends
>to come and cut what they need (for free, of course.)   From an halachic
>perspective am I undermining a neighbor who chooses to "sell" arovos?
>Ditto a local succah merchant.

A related question. A friend purchased the lulav and etrog for me but I
forgot to mention I have access to fresh aravot. He bought aravot for
me, but they were terrible. Setting up the lulav erev sukkot, most
leaves fell off even though I stored them correctly. What responsibility
does a seller have?

Sam Saal


End of Volume 45 Issue 15