Volume 45 Number 17
                    Produced: Tue Oct 12 22:45:58 EDT 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

107 pictures of Second Hakafot in Ma'aleh Adumim
         [Jacob Richman]
62 Pictures of the Sukkah of Light
         [Jacob Richman]
         [Martin Stern]
Aleinu on Yom Kippur
         [Mark Dratch]
Aramaic in Private Davening (2)
         [Gil Student, Ben Z. Katz]
Coconuts on the Table
         [W. Baker]
Different versions of Birkat Hamazon
         [Andrew Marks]
         [Isaac A Zlochower]
Israeli Frankfurters
         [Naomi Graetz]
Prayer of Cohen Gadol
         [Tzvi Stein]
Sources for Direction of Lulav
         [Russell Jay Hendel]
Succah blowing in the Wind
         [Mike Gerver]


From: Jacob Richman <jrichman@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:46:35 +0200
Subject: 107 pictures of Second Hakafot in Ma'aleh Adumim

Hi Everyone!

On Thursday night I took 107 pictures of the second hakfot at 
S'deh Chemed in Ma'aleh Adumim and I posted them on my website at:

When the first page comes up, press the F11 key on the top of your
keyboard for a full page view.  Use the icon buttons on the bottom of
each page to navigate.

Shavua Tov,


From: Jacob Richman <jrichman@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:51:36 +0200
Subject: 62 Pictures of the Sukkah of Light

Hi Everyone!

The Jerusalem Municipality, together with the Israel Electric Company,
built the ''Sukkah of Light'', the biggest and most lit sukkah in the
world. It is 30 meters long, 16 meters wide and 6 meters high, a total
of 480 squared meters. It is made of aluminum profiles that support the
walls, and includes 4 kilometers of light wiring in rubber tubes with
144,000 mini light bulbs in them.

The sukkah is located in Safra Square in Jerusalem, Israel.  On October
5, Tuesday evening, I visited the sukkah and took 62 pictures of the

I posted the pictures on my website at:

When the first page comes up, press the F11 key on the top of your
keyboard for a full page view.  Use the icon buttons on the bottom of
each page to navigate.



From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:21:18 +0100
Subject: Re: Aleinu

on 11/10/04 9:39 am, Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...> wrote:

> In another context (the origin of the custom of bowing on the floor on
> the yamim noraim), I recently heard a talk on the history of Aleinu. To
> sum up, from memory:
> Aleinu was composed for the beginning of the Malkhiot section of the
> Rosh Hashana Musaf, as is clear from its text. Only much later was the
> custom of saying it after Shacharit begun; it was said privately, as a
> way of preparing to "go out into the world," the text making points
> about making a kiddush hashem. (There are numerous tefilot in the sidur
> today that match this practice.) Still later, the recitation was
> formalized.

The custom of reciting Aleinu daily was adopted after the burning alive
of the Jewish community of Blois, who were accused of ritual murder, in
1171.  As they were burning they chanted Aleinu in a particularly moving
melody (probably the one we still use on the Yamim Noraim). This had a
profound effect on the bystanders and was even mentioned by the
non-Jewish chroniclers. Rabbeinu Tam instituted a public fast on that
day (20 Sivan), one of his last acts before he himself passed away. The
custom of reciting Aleinu after davenning spread throughout Ashkenazi
Jewry and, in the course of the next century, to all communities. I
don't think it was said privately but, rather, was a communal practice
in the first instance followed by kaddish in memory of the Blois, and
probably later other, martyrs. This explains why (German) Ashkenazim are
particular that someone should always say this particular kaddish. Where
there was an avail in shul, he would say it but, otherwise, anyone could
do so.

Martin Stern


From: <MSDratch@...> (Mark Dratch)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:42:03 EDT
Subject: Aleinu on Yom Kippur

> In several shuls where I have davened over the years and which do have
> a break Aleinu is not said in Mussaf, Minchah or Nei'lah on Yom
> Kippur. I believe this is the normative practice / halakha. Two
> questions then: (1) Is this the halakha/practice in all nuscha'ot
> tefillah or just nusach Ashkenaz? (2) can anyone offer an explanation?

Simple explanation: Aleinu is recited at the end of a service so that
the last thing we recite, before "reentering the world," is an
affirmation of the oneness of God and the hope of the ultimate
transformation of the world.  (This raises a question re: nusach
Ashkenas in which we recite shir shel yom after Aleinu... but that's
another post.)  On Yom Kippur this is not necessary... either because
there was no break between various services (are there any shuls that
maintain this practice?) or because we are not "reentering the world"
during Yom Kippur. It is not a function of Mourners' Kaddish being
recited or not...  it's a function of Aleinu.


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:39:42 -0400
Subject: re: Aramaic in Private Davening

Sam Saal wrote:
>I know people who skip the "barchuni l'shalom" verse of Friday
>evening's "Shalom Aleichem" because it implies angels acting as
>an intermediary between us and HaShem.

That was the custom in the yeshiva in Volozhin.

But the idea that angels carry one's prayers to G-d is not the same as
praying to angels. You pray to G-d and have the angels carry those
prayers (whatever that means).

Gil Student
Phone: (718) 951-1254  Fax: (718) 228-5150

From: Ben Z. Katz <bkatz@...>
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:05:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Aramaic in Private Davening

>From: Sam Saal <ssaal@...>
>Jeffrey Bock <bockny@...> wrote:
>>(b) Rebbi Yochanan said - that if someone Davens in Aramaic, the angels
>>(who carry one's Tefilos before the Heavenly Throne) will not respond,
>>because they are not conversant with Aramaic.
>I know people who skip the "barchuni l'shalom" verse of Friday evening's
>"Shalom Aleichem" because it implies angels acting as an intermediary
>between us and HaShem.  I have a corresponding difficulty here (although
>I do sing the "barchuni" verse :-).

I once came across a teshuvah of Rav Moshe Feinstein where he stated that
in his father's home they did not say the barchuni leshalom verse of lecha
dodi.  I don't have the source handy.  Perhaps some learned member of the
group can respond with the citation while I try to search for it (mentally
and physically)

And just to state my position on all of this:  Since it is forbidden to
pray to any intermediaries, angelic or human, any such prayers should be
deleted (eg machneisay rachamim ... in the selichot) and any such midrashim
should be ignored or reinterpretted 

[But see Gil's comment above that in these prayers we are not praying TO
the angels, which would be a problem. I would also point out that some
of these prayers are ascribed to Rav Saadia Gaon, whom I would point out
is a fairly broad shoulder to lean on. Mod.]

Ben Z. Katz, M.D.
Children's Memorial Hospital, Division of Infectious Diseases
2300 Children's Plaza, Box # 20, Chicago, IL 60614


From: W. Baker <wbaker@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:33:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Coconuts on the Table

> From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
> on 3/10/04 3:47 am, Carl Singer <casinger@...> wrote:
>>> Does this still apply? Surely it is sufficiently well-known that parve
>>> substitutes for cream/creamer/milk exist, and therefore the concern for
>>> mar'it ayin no longer applies
>  In those times nut milk was very unusual which was the motive for the 
> gezerah.  Nowadays when pareve coffee whitener is widespread it may no 
> longer apply, though some types are not kosher which might make it 
> advisable to put the packet on the table to reassure people.

If the issue is the non-kashrut, rather than the dairyness of the
creamer, shouldn't it then follow that any time we use a prepared
product, even a can of tomatos or such, that the container be on the
table?  It would make for a rather crowded table, with all those empty
cans and packages around.  Is it not permissable to slice bread or cake
after taking it out of the package before serving it?

Wendy Baker


From: Andrew Marks <machmir@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 09:34:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Different versions of Birkat Hamazon

The Vilna Gaon's nusach differs significantly from the standard nusach
ashkenaz for benching on shabbos.  You can find it in any nusach HaGra


From: Isaac A Zlochower <zlochoia@...>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:29:18 -0400
Subject: Glassware

A few respondents have alluded to the view that Pyrex or other glass
than can be used in the oven may not have the status of non-absorptive
glass.  I have seen an article on this which cites the Tzitz Eliezer to
that effect.  However, as a chemist who was once employed by a glass
company, I question the physical basis for such a view.  Pyrex is a
borosilicate glass that is made basically from quartz sand and borax.
Ordinary glass is soda-lime glass, which is made basically of quartz
sand together with sodium and calcium carbonates.  The melting
temperatures of these two mixtures is somewhat different and their
thermal expansion properties are different (borosilicate undergoes very
little expansion with temperature).  Otherwise the two glasses are quite
similar.  If anything, borosilicate glass is more inert and
non-absorptive than soda-lime glass.  Corelle, or similar glass-ceramics
start out as a quartz sand mixture with some additional alumina
ingredient which is melted to form a glass in the desired shape and then
undergoes a special heat treatment at a lower temperature to induce
internal crystallization.  Those crystals give glass-ceramic the desired
insensitivity to temperature and make the material opaque.  It does not
effect the absorptive properties of the glass matrix

 I could understand the objection to treating Corelle as if it were a
simple glass, since it looks like a ceramic.  However, I can not
understand the basis for distinguishing between different types of
silical glass.

Yitzchok Zlochower


From: <graetz@...> (Naomi Graetz)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:44:18 +0530
Subject: Israeli Frankfurters

We have been in Israel since 1967; and since I was here as a student in
62 and 65-- I feel qualified to relate to Israeli hotdogs vs. American
all beef kosher. Things have changed here and Tirat Tzvi makes better
hot dogs than American ones. I particularly recommend the veal
knockwurst, which are wonderful (and no, I don't have any relatives who
live in the kibbutz). What Batya wrote is casting aspersions on food in
Israel, which has caught up with America. There is nothing which is not
available here food-wise--and 95% of it is kosher. You have to go out of
your way to a non-kosher supermarket (and there is a national chain
store, whose name I will not mention on a halachik list, which sends out
an enticing catalogue to the community where I live). As to the soy hot
dogs which Batya mentions, I for one find them inedible, but I keep them
in the freezer for my grandsons who love them!

Naomi Graetz
Ben Gurion University of the Negev


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:52:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Prayer of Cohen Gadol

> From: Eli Turkel <turkel@...>
> In addition the prayer was basically for materialistic requests rather
> than spiritual ones. Any reason?

This reminds me of a quote from Rabbi Twerski.  He said (paraphrasing

"When it comes to aquiring material things, which depends on Hashem,
people put their whole energy and life into it.  When it comes to
aquiring spiritual things, which depend's on effort, they daven for it.
It should be the other way around."

This seems quite in line with the kohen gadol's prayer, and maybe that's
part of the lesson in it.


From: Russell Jay Hendel
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:33:10 -0400
Subject: RE: Sources for Direction of Lulav

Over Sukkoth I noticed in the Jewish Press a detailed list with sources
(a) the order of the six directions for shaking the lulav
(b) on which verses in hallel is their shaking.

The list was quite detailed (and I didnt have pencil and paper) --
perhaps someone still has the Jewish press and can summarize the 5
opinions cited with their sources.

Russell Jay Hendel; http://www.Rashiyomi.com/


From: <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:45:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Succah blowing in the Wind

>From Hillel Markowitz, in v45n11, discussing sukkahs,

      We string fishing line around the walls tied to the poles, three
      tefachim apart in parallel rows three tefachim aprt up to ten
      tefachim high.  Halachically, this is the wall which does not
      move.  The canvas is just for comfort like drapes in a window.

The prefab sukkahs they sell in Israel (and maybe in the US too,
nowadays) have little slots marked in the posts, at the right intervals,
for this string to go.

Mike Gerver
Raanana, Israel


End of Volume 45 Issue 17