Volume 45 Number 30
                    Produced: Thu Oct 21 22:47:14 EDT 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue: 

Aramaic in private davening
         [Yehonatan Chipman]
Chodosh In The US.
         [Immanuel Burton]
Chumrot (4)
         [Ira L. Jacobson, Tzvi Stein, Elazar M Teitz, Perets Mett]
Hechsher on Olive Oil
         [Gamoran, Sam]
Kosher food in Aruba? (2)
         [Tzvi Stein, Mimi Markofsky]
Learning New Material on Shabbos
         [Tzvi Stein]
Religious Schools and Math Reasoning
         [Binyomin Segal]
         [Gil Student]
Simchas Torah - Shelosh Esrai Middos
         [Meir Possenheimer]
State of YU
         [Nathan Lamm]
VeHaya Machanecha Kadosh
         [Leah Perl Shollar]


From: Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:28:29 +0200
Subject: Re: Aramaic in private davening

Re the discussion in v45n17 about not saying prayers to the angels or,
more generally, not mentioning other entitures as being equivalent to

Other examples appear in the Selihot, the section near the end addressed
to "makhnisei rahamim," (which some peopel omit), and in the piyyut
"Shlosh esreh midot" recited on the night of "Zekhor Brit" (Erev Rosh
Hashanah) which repeatedly addresses "midah nekhonah" ("a goodly
attribute"). Goldshmidt offers a "kosher" variant of this in his edition
of Selihot.

In the same vein, Rav Soloveitchik said that R. Hayyim of Brisk did not
say the Zohar passage "Berikh Shmei" ordinarily said before taking out
the Sefer Torah, because it contains the phrase "desagidna kamei
umi-kama deyekar oraita bekhol idan veidan" ("before whom and before
Whose honorable Torah we bow at all times").  Rav Hayyim objected to the
equation of the Torah which, however holy and important it may be, is a
created entity, with Gd Himself.  The Rav himself recommended simply
skipping the offending phrase, and gave the impression that such was his
own practice.

Yehonatan Chipman


From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:33:47 +0100
Subject: Chodosh In The US.

In Mail.Jewish v45n28, David Maslow asked:

> Can anyone explain why yashan is considered, in the US at least, as a
> chumrah by large segments of the Orthodox world, including the major
> kashrut supervisory organizations?

"The Kashrus Manual" by Shmuel Rubenstein (pub. University of Toronto
Press Incorporated, 2000) gives three solutions to the issue of chodosh
[wheat from the current year] in the US:

(1) There are two Jewish companies that use only yoshon [wheat from the
previous year], namely Streits Kosher Food Products, and Kemach Kosher

(2) Much of the spring wheat (of which 92% is planted after the second
day of Pesach and so would count as chodosh) harvested is kept in silos
for two or three years before being sent to the market for baked and
cereal goods.  As Pesach has already passed, the grain is permitted.
The source quoted for this is Rabbi ARyeh Levkowitz in Shv'is.

(3) According to many authorities, the wheat of non-Jewish farmers
outside Israel is not included in the ban of chodosh.

Immanuel Burton.


From: Ira L. Jacobson <laser@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:14:59 +0200
Subject: Re: Chumrot

etzion <atzion@...> stated the following on Tue, 19 Oct 2004
12:10:41 +0200:

                Those communities or individuals who use a Shabbat
      generator or gas light because of the problem of work done by Jews
      are not consistent- unless they also have an alternative source
      for water-as the water comes from pumps operated by Mekorot on

In order to assess the accuracy of this claim, one would have to be
cognizant of what, if any hillul Shabbat is done by Meqorot.  The IEC
(Israel Electric Company) tries to minimize its hillul Shabbat, but I
think that there is no doubt that there is some. Have you any
information regarding Meqorot?

IRA L. JACOBSON         

From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:38:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Chumrot

> From: etzion <atzion@...>
>           Those communities or individuals who use a Shabbat generator
> or gas light because of the problem of work done by Jews are not
> consistent- unless they also have an alternative source for water-as the
> water comes from pumps operated by Mekorot on Shabbat!

Some of them, because of the concern you raised, indeed use large water
tanks, usually located on the roof, for Shabbos water.  Others have less
sophisticated arrangements but draw all their water before Shabbos.
Still others (the majority I think) don't worry about the water.  Since
they're undoubtedly aware of the people that use tanks, I'm sure they
have a halachic reason why the water is OK, but I don't know what it is.

From: Elazar M Teitz <remt@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:21:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Chumrot

<Those communities or individuals who use a Shabbat generator or gas
light because of the problem of work done by Jews are not consistent-
unless they also have an alternative source for water-as the water comes
from pumps operated by Mekorot on Shabbat!>

        The source of the chumra of not using electricity because of the
chilul shabbos involved in its generation is the Chazon Ish.  Every
Friday, he drew a bathtub full of water for use on Shabbos, and indeed
would not use the faucets nor flush the toilet.

        However, those who follow in his footsteps are indeed
inconsistent, since most use water.  It is possible, though, that the
water operation is more automatic than electric generation, thus not
necessarily requiring human intervention with its attendant chilul


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:22:56 +0100
Subject: Chumrot

Bnei Brak does not use water from Mekorot on Shabbos or Yomtov for this 
very reason.

Perets Mett


From: Gamoran, Sam <Sgamoran@...>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:09:10 +0200
Subject: Hechsher on Olive Oil

I just got an email from a neighbor that one of the local Arab villages
has a bumper crop of olives and is looking to sell the oil to local area

Without getting into the political issues of trading with the Arabs or
the security of how the oil will get from a place I'd rather not visit
to one where I feel comfortable: what type of hechsher, if any, is
required for pure old fashion stone pressed olive oil?

Sam Gamoran


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Subject: re: Kosher food in Aruba?

>My parents are going to Aruba, and would like information about Jewish
>facilities, especially kosher food, on the island, outside of the
>chagim (they plan to go in January).

This is not exactly what you asked, but if they are able to change their
trip to late December, there is a kosher 2-week tour out of Miami every
year at that time.  Just throwing that out there.  Sorry I don't know
any details of this tour.

From: <AUNTIEFIFI@...> (Mimi Markofsky)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:58:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Kosher food in Aruba?

With regard to kosher meals in Aruba, your parents might try Noah's Ark
in Teaneck NJ for meals or try packing LaBriut meals which need no
refrigeration.  Their resort or hotel may be able to offer some
alternatives, as well.  Finally, I would contact their local Chabad and
see if they have Sh'lichim in Aruba.

Mimi Markofsky
Elite Kosher Catering


From: Tzvi Stein <Tzvi.Stein@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:45:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Learning New Material on Shabbos

> This is actually advice brought down in Jewish law: One should
> preferably not study new material on sabbath but rather review the
> weeks learning.

>>I've never heard of this before.  Is there a source where I could find
>>more on it?

I've heard it but it really is not an issue nowadays, when we are mainly
concerned that people learn *at all* on Shabbos.  Telling them not to learn
certain things would be counter-productive for 99% of people.

I've heard a similar argument about the custom of not learning most material
on Erev Tisha B'Av.  Since many people would otherwise not learn at all, the
argument goes, let them learn what they want.


From: Binyomin Segal <bsegal@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:11:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Religious Schools and Math Reasoning

> In searching for an entirely different topic on the Internet, I found a
> 1997 article of Science News which claims that Talmudic reasoning makes
> "ultra-Orthodox" students do better in their math studies.

It's kind of fun to be associated with a university. Between the
internet and the academic services available through the net to
students, libraries are never closed. In a few short seconds, I glanced
at the Science News article, did an ArticleFirst search and was able to
find the original article that was the source.

Author(s):  	Dembo, Yoram ; Levin, Iris ; Siegler, Robert S 
Title: 	A Comparison of the Geometric Reasoning of Students Attending
	Israeli Ultraorthodox and Mainstream Schools 
Source: 	Developmental psychology. 33, no. 1, (1997): 92 (12 pages)


Effects of schooling on a geometric misconception were examined by
comparing the performance of Israeli students attending ultraorthodox
schools with that of peers attending mainstream schools. These groups
were of special interest because both value education highly and send
essentially all children to school, but 1 group receives extensive
instruction in mathematics and science and the other receives almost
none. Despite the ultraorthodox 12- to 14-year-olds' having received no
instruction in geometry, they more often solved the geometric
misconception problems than did mainstream peers who had received
extensive instruction in the subject. Mainstream 16- to 18-year-olds did
somewhat better on the misconception task than did orthodox age peers,
but even there, the advantage of the mainstream students was limited to
those exposed to the most advanced mathematics curriculum. How
mainstream and orthodox schooling may have contributed to these findings
is discussed.

Then in another few moments, I was able to download a pdf version of
that original article. I can forward a copy of the pdf to anyone who is

Of cource my computer can't read the article for me, so I haven't done
that part yet. :)



From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:54:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Shemot

Nachum Lamm wrote:

> recall being told, by an eyewitness (probably my father, who was in
>his shiur, but I'll have to ask again) of an incident in which Rav
>Yosef Dov Soloveitchik wrote "God" on the blackboard and erased it, to
>prove the point that English names are not a "shem."

It is pretty clear in the Shach (YD 276:11) that the name of God is only in

Gil Student


From: Meir Possenheimer <meir@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:19:00 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Re: Simchas Torah - Shelosh Esrai Middos

> Can anyone quote a definitive source as to why, of all the Yomim
> Tovim (with the exception of Yom Kippur other than when they fall
> on Shabbos), Simchas Torah is the only one on which the Shelosh
> Esrai Middos and the following Tefillah are omitted prior to taking
> out the Sifrei Torah?

One possibility that occurs to me is that when the above *is* said, the
Sifrei Torah are still in the Aron Hakodesh.  However, after the
Hakofos, the Sifrei Torah which are about to be used for leining are
already out, at least this is the case in our Shul, and maybe it is not
deemed Kovod HaTorah (respect for the Sifrei Torah) for them to be held
while awaiting the Tefilloh to be said by the Tzibbur.

But I should still be interested to know if there is an authorative
source for the practice.


From: Nathan Lamm <nelamm18@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: State of YU

In response to Janice Gelb's request for specifics, I think a good place
to start is the letter in response to the article, found at
<http://www.newvoices.org/cgi-bin/articlepage.cgi?id=248>, written by a
YU student.

A visit to the campus(es) would be quite illuminating to many, I'd


From: Leah Perl Shollar <leahperl@...>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:08:41 -0400
Subject: Re: VeHaya Machanecha Kadosh

> Its true. Also a somewhat recent Miami Boys Choir song which is still
> really popular is "Vayeha Machanecha Kadosh" which my husband thought
> was extremely funny because its about digging latrines away from the
> camp. (I still like the song, but its funny)

It's true that this is the context of these words, however the phrase is
definitely used in the larger context of keeping ones home/seviva fit
for Hashem.  So I don't see that its all that funny.

L Shollar


End of Volume 45 Issue 30