Volume 45 Number 78
                    Produced: Sun Nov 21 11:41:59 EST 2004

Subjects Discussed In This Issue:

Coffee with non-Jews
         [J. B. Gross]
Giving out aliyot in advance
         [Martin Stern]
The Kabbalah of Kosher and Treif
         [Stan Tenen]
Lateness to Shul (3)
         [Immanuel Burton, Martin Stern, Avi Feldblum]
         [Martin Stern]
On-Line Chart for Mishnayot Learning? (2)
         [<DTnLA@...>, David S. Greenberg]
Please say tehillim for
         [Leah Perl Shollar]
Psak (2)
         [Perets Mett, Avi Feldblum]
Two Pair Tefillin
         [Martin Stern]
Women Getting Called up For Aliyos
         [Gil Student]


From: J. B. Gross <yaabetz@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:50:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Coffee with non-Jews

> From: Chana Luntz <Chana@...>
> . . . and the achronim write, that this was the simple minhag in all
> places".  . . .

The phrase "minhag pashut" denotes "widespread practice".


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:48:20 +0000
Subject: Re: Giving out aliyot in advance

on 18/11/04 11:11 am, <MJGerver@...> (Mike Gerver) wrote:

> I can mention another drawback, from recent personal experience, to any
> distribution of aliyot in advance, at least when little cards are given
> out to remind people of which aliyah they have. A few months ago, after
> taking my shirt out of the washing machine, I discovered, in the pocket,
> a little card that said "Revi'i" in Roman letters. I vaguely remembered
> putting it there a long time before, but couldn't at first remember
> when.  But since it was in Roman letters, I knew it must have been in
> the US, and I had last been in the US about five months earlier. I
> finally decided it must have been at a particular shul I had gone to on
> Shabbat the last time I had been in the US. That city doesn't even have
> an eruv, so I must have been carrying it in my pocket on Shabbat without
> an eruv!  And it probably had gone through the laundry a few times (it
> looked like it had) during the intervening months. Oy!

This is an old custom that used to be followed in some shuls in
Germany. I have only seen it once, in the Binyan Tsion shul in Rechavia,
Jerusalem. The custom there was to give it back to the gabbai after he
had made the Mi shebeirakh, so Mike would not have found it in his
pocket later. At least he can take comfort that his carrying was a case
of pure mit'aseik and he did not violate Shabbat in any way.

Martin Stern

[Just as a note, the shul here in Allentown makes use of cards and/or
metal plates with the honor written / inscribed on it. The custom here
is to give it back to the gabai when you come up for the aliyah, and if
you forget, the gabai will ask you for it before you leave the amud
following your aliyah. Avi]


From: Stan Tenen <meru1@...>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:28:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Kabbalah of Kosher and Treif

In his response to my posting, Avi Feldblum asks for sources for the
idea that halacha derives from kabbalah, or more accurately, from Sod,
the proper province of Kabbalah (and not, of course, "pop kabbalah" --
astrology, palmistry, numerology, phooey, et al.).

Here's a substantive response (copied here with the permission of the
author, Daniel Gil).

>The Rambam in his first four chapters of the Mishneh Torah chooses as
>his topic the mystical concepts of Pardes (Perek four of Hilchos Daos,
>Halakhah 13, also see the "Kesef Mishnah" on these four Prakim). Why
>would the Rambam, the real and true master of the Halakhic process,
>start his Magnum Opus with four chapters dedicated to the most esoteric
>aspects of Torah? Because every building has a foundation, and the
>foundation of halakhic knowledge is in esoteric knowledge.
>There are more sources. The Tsemach Tsedek of Lubavitch in his
>Masterful work, "Derech Mitsvotecha". The entire book of Derech
>Mitsvotecha by the Tsemach Tsedek is dedicated to exposing the
>Kabbalistic roots of practical halakhah.  Another source would be
>"Likutey Halachos" by R' Nosson of Nemirov. Likutey Halachos is also a
>very large work whose entire mission demonstrates that the roots of
>Halakhah, and Halakhic practice are in kabbalah. Would you like yet
>another undeniably kosher source?
>OK. HaChacham Yosef Chaim's zz"l classic work entitled, "Ben Ish Chai".
>The entire work shows how practical day to day Halakha is directly rooted
>in Kabbalistic thought, and doctrine.  And by the way, The sefer Ben Ish
>Chai is one of the more popular of halakhic works in today's yeshivah
>world in Israel, precisely because it shows how Halakah is rooted in
>Kabbalah. Yet another source is the Revered Rugachover Gaon, who equates
>inner knowledge of kabbalah with the ability to 'poskin' halakha. He says
>that the more one is skilled with the inner discipline the more one is
>capable of applying halakhic principles to real life situations, ie
>poskining halakha.
>There are many more sources.
>Daniel Gil


From: Immanuel Burton <IBURTON@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:29:52 +0000
Subject: RE: Lateness to Shul

I would imagine that habitual latecomers to Shul probably feel that they
aren't missing anything by coming late.  The question to ask such people
is whether they would arrive late at the cinema/theatre/theater.
Similarly, one could ask someone who chats during davenning whether they
would hold a conversation in the cinema.

Immanuel Burton.

From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:22:27 +0000
Subject: Re: Lateness to Shul

on 18/11/04 11:23 am,  Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...> wrote:

> Are there really synagogues where coming late is not the norm, and
> the majority come on time?  Happy are you and happy is your portion!  In
> virtually every Orthodox shul I've ever seen, there are usually only a
> handful of people present at the beginning of Barukh Sheamar on Shabbat
> morning, and even by Shoken Ad or Barkhu, the majority have yet to come.

I can't believe that Yehonatan is being seious. In my shul nearly every man
has arrived on Shabbat in time for Barukh Sheamar, with a few stragglers
coming during Pesukei deZimra, but unless there is some emergency at home
nobody comes later than Shokhen ad. Even on weekdays, everyone will have
arrived before Yishtabach.

Martin Stern

From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004
Subject: Lateness to Shul

I will concur with Yehonatan, that in my experience, what Martin
describes above is extremely rare, at least outside of the "major"
jewish communities such as Brooklyn etc. Even in places like New Jersey
where there may be a number of different shuld, MArtin's description may
apply to the Hashkama minyan, in my experience, but not to the main
minyan. In an "out of town" location, like Allentown, I would guess that
on Shabbat, there is no more than about 20% of the men by the end of
Karbanot, and maybe half of the people by Shokhen Ad. At least 20% of
the men arrive after the start of Keriat HaTorah. I suspect that this if
fairly common in communities with only one Orthodox minyan.

Avi Feldblum


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:52:19 +0000
Subject: Re: Love

on 19/11/04 11:27 am, Yehonatan Chipman <yonarand@...> wrote:

> I would add here that Judaism does not necessarily have a concept
> of romantic love, and certainly does not see exclusive love, in the
> sense of an overpowering emotion, as the basis for monogamous marriage.
> (In fact, the concept of romantic love, promulgated day and night by
> popular culture of TV, movies, fiction, etc., may well have caused more
> mischief than good, by creating unrealistic expectations, and may even
> be indirectly responsible for the epidemic of divorce in today's
> society.)

Yehonatan has made a very important point which might be worth making a
new thread. I would like to add that it is precisely this concept of
romantic love which became a dominant theme in fiction from the 18th
century onwards that lay behind the strong rabbinic opposition to
reading secular literature and, by extension, to secular studies in
general. By its very nature, emphasising strong personal emotion, it was
seen as corrosive to traditional social mores, something that has
clearly happened and is 'progressing' at an increasing pace to this day.

Martin Stern

[It would be useful to back this claim up with explicit sources that
show that this was indeed the motive behind the opposition to the
reading of secular literature and studies. Mod.]


From: <DTnLA@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:52:29 EST
Subject: Re: On-Line Chart for Mishnayot Learning?

Aliza Berger-Cooper, PhD writes:

<<I'm looking for a signup chart for mishnayot learning for "shloshim"
(30 days after death). Is one available online? Preferably, there should
be room for people to sign up for individual chapters, not just whole

I have one that I made in Microsoft Word. However, I am not sure if its
divided up like you are describing.

From: David S. Greenberg <dsg1716@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:39:48 -0500
Subject: Re: On-Line Chart for Mishnayot Learning?

To the writer who was searching for an online chart of mishnayos:

I too have been searching online for the mishnayos chart, and to my
surprise I could not find any listing that could be printed and used
easily.  In fact, only two or three sites even listed all 63 masechtos.

Tonight I came upon the following, which I hope you find helpful:


Now I just need to find some volunteers!

[Same site sent in by David Curwin <tobyndave@...>]


From: Leah Perl Shollar <leahperl@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:28:13 -0500
Subject: Please say tehillim for

Dear friends:

The second Jew in two days has been stabbed in Antwerp.  The first, a
father of three, died last night.

Please say tehillim for Moshe Yitzchak ben Basya Chaya Sara.  He is in
critical condition.  (And a 27 yr old father of 5 kids).

Before every lesson my students read a chapter of tehillim, dedicate the
day's learning to two people who were killed in terrorist attacks (we
read a short biographical sketch), and mention those who were injured
who need refua.

Perhaps if each of us took on one mitzva for achdus with Jews around the
world, that would show Hashem that we can be united together WITHOUT
stabbings and attacks -- united just because we are and should be one

Besuros Tovos and Gut Shabbos.

Leah Perl


From: Perets Mett <p.mett@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:00:57 +0000
Subject: Psak

Janice Gelb wrote:

> Just because Rabbi Golinkin is Conservative does not mean that you
> cannot benefit from the research and sources named in his teshuvot,
> even if you don't agree with his reasoning or plan to follow his
> recommendations.

This approach seems to reduce the reaching of a psak to an academic
discipline.  That is the antithesis of what psak is about. Chazal say
that a dayon who judges honestly becomes a shutof to HKBH in the

Psak is a live process. The reason we rely on a Rov's psak is that he
has siyato dishmayo when issuing a psak for a real-life shaalo.

I do not see how the research of someone whose attachment to Torah min
hashomayim is less than complete can have the benefit of siyato

Perets Mett

From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum@...>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004
Subject: Psak

The question I have with this approach is that I do not think we are
talking about Psak at all. First and foremost, Psak on a specific issue
is not in scope for this list, that is something between an individual
and their halachic advisor. The discussion, as I understand it, is on
sources for a specific topic.

Avi Feldblum


From: Martin Stern <md.stern@...>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:05:29 +0000
Subject: Re: Two Pair Tefillin

on 19/11/04 11:27 am, <GOLDDDS@...> (Mark H. Goldenberg) wrote:

> Today I witnessed something in Shul that I have never seen before.
> Three visitors to our minyan came to Shacharis and each wore two pairs
> of tefillin simultaneously, both Shel Rosh and Shel Yad.  When we asked
> them about their minhag, they said that they wear Rashi and Rabeinu Tam
> tefillin, and they wear them together.  They suggested that is the
> proper way, and everyone should put tefillin on in that fashion.  Has
> anyone seen this practice before?

This custom is quite common amongst the Teimanim who make a point of
having rather small tefillin in order to be able to fit both on at the
same time.  It is mentioned (I forget the exact reference) that there is
room on the head for two tefillin.

Martin Stern


From: Gil Student <gil_student@...>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:56:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Women Getting Called up For Aliyos

Regarding women receiving aliyos, I direct readers to R. Yehuda Henkin's
most recent teshuvah on this subject in his just-released Bnei Banim
volume 4. The teshuvah is available in PDF at

Gil Student


End of Volume 45 Issue 78